RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack?

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 7:08:10 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I respectfully disagree with your observations about 'the only skilled attack'. Hitting ANY moving ship with a torpedo is tough and requires skill. Hell, hitting a stationary target with a torpedo takes a skill that I can't even imagine.

If you're looking at other examples, consider Hiryu's second counterattack against a repaired Yorktown. 10 B5N2s scoring 2 hits and crippling the carrier for a second time. IIRC, the flight leader, Tomonaga was killed during this attack (he missed).

That's not only an awe-inspiring example of skill, but of heroism.

Hard or not it was pretty dangerous attacking against task forces as torpedo bomber pilot in some cases you get better chances to survive alive by playing couple rounds of russian roulette with revolver than as torpedo bomber pilot.

warspite1

Here is the Wiki entry for Eugene Esmonde V.C.

The courage of the gallant Swordfish crews was particularly noted by friend and foe alike. Admiral Bertram Ramsay later wrote, "In my opinion the gallant sortie of these six Swordfish aircraft constitutes one of the finest exhibitions of self-sacrifice and devotion to duty the war had ever witnessed", while Admiral Otto Ciliax in the Scharnhorst described "The mothball attack of a handful of ancient planes, piloted by men whose bravery surpasses any other action by either side that day". As he watched the smoking wrecks of the Swordfish falling into the sea, Captain Hoffmann of the Scharnhorst exclaimed, "Poor fellows, they are so very slow, it is nothing but suicide for them to fly against these big ships". Willhelm Wolf aboard the Scharnhorst wrote, "What an heroic stage for them to meet their end! Behind them their homeland, which they had just left with their hearts steeled to their purpose, still in view".

I think the piccy is supposed to be Taranto, but you get the drift...

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 7:09:16 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I respectfully disagree with your observations about 'the only skilled attack'. Hitting ANY moving ship with a torpedo is tough and requires skill. Hell, hitting a stationary target with a torpedo takes a skill that I can't even imagine.

If you're looking at other examples, consider Hiryu's second counterattack against a repaired Yorktown. 10 B5N2s scoring 2 hits and crippling the carrier for a second time. IIRC, the flight leader, Tomonaga was killed during this attack (he missed).

That's not only an awe-inspiring example of skill, but of heroism.

Hard or not it was pretty dangerous attacking against task forces as torpedo bomber pilot in some cases you get better chances to survive alive by playing couple rounds of russian roulette with revolver than as torpedo bomber pilot.

At least with Russian roulette, there is a good chance they will find my body....

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 7:14:09 PM

Lecivius

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Guys, I am not detracting anything you say. But the pilots & commanders themselves say the hit was more due to luck than anything else. Of course, a real soldier makes his own luck.

My point is simply to understand where the value of 'luck' comes in, as opposed to training & doctrine. Case in point, 17 Nells attack Force Z for one hit. Follow on forces make history. Nine Swordfish flown by green aviators score 1 hit. Follow on forces again make history. The only attack where dedicated torpedo planes on a specific mission accomplished accomplished their goal that I can so far find is Rennell Island. It was decidedly difficult to put such a weapon on target from such a platform, no matter the skill.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 7:22:32 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Guys, I am not detracting anything you say. But the pilots & commanders themselves say the hit was more due to luck than anything else. Of course, a real soldier makes his own luck.

My point is simply to understand where the value of 'luck' comes in, as opposed to training & doctrine. Case in point, 17 Nells attack Force Z for one hit. Follow on forces make history. Nine Swordfish flown by green aviators score 1 hit. Follow on forces again make history. The only attack where dedicated torpedo planes on a specific mission accomplished accomplished their goal that I can so far find is Rennell Island. It was decidedly difficult to put such a weapon on target from such a platform, no matter the skill.

warspite1

I certainly cannot recall any SM.79's sinking any RN warship in the Med. They certainly damaged a few (cruisers mainly) - although I may be wrong.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 7:34:25 PM

kev_uk

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When you compare a Torpedo Bomber - the time (seconds) it takes to drop that fish with the AAA bursting around you - to a Submarine Commander who has the time to set up, use mathematical reasoning etc - then..well..certainly luck, skill and heroism.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 10:30:08 PM

spence

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The attack of the TBDs (22 I think) at Coral Sea also deserve some mention since they apparently scored 5 hits in the first wave and 2 more in the second wave. That's somewhat over 30% total. The SBDs scored some hits (2) first aand it didn't slow Shoho down much but Lexington's TBDs apparently got 5 torpedo hits - pretty good.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/22/2015 11:51:37 PM

wdolson

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TBDs made a torpedo attack on transports unloading at Lae in April 1942 and they scored some hits there too. The torpedo drop on the Shoho was probably the most textbook combat drop the USN ever did.

Beauforts did some harrowing torpedo attacks. A strike launched at long range on the Lutzow along the Norwegian coast was notable. All but one 42 Squadron Beaufort got lost. The one plane managed to score a hit on the Lutzow putting her out of service for some time. Beauforts based at Malta and Alexandria gave the Italians a lot of headaches in the Med.

The Beauforts were replaced by torpedo carrying Beaufighters around Europe. For targeting smaller ships, rockets became the weapon of choice, but Torpbeaus still dropped torpedoes on larger targets.

Bill

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 2:34:08 AM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

The attack of the TBDs (22 I think) at Coral Sea also deserve some mention since they apparently scored 5 hits in the first wave and 2 more in the second wave. That's somewhat over 30% total. The SBDs scored some hits (2) first aand it didn't slow Shoho down much but Lexington's TBDs apparently got 5 torpedo hits - pretty good.

More research for me. I thought they scored 2 hits, and I was not sure if it was before or after

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 3:39:07 AM

Dili

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Guys, I am not detracting anything you say. But the pilots & commanders themselves say the hit was more due to luck than anything else. Of course, a real soldier makes his own luck.

My point is simply to understand where the value of 'luck' comes in, as opposed to training & doctrine. Case in point, 17 Nells attack Force Z for one hit. Follow on forces make history. Nine Swordfish flown by green aviators score 1 hit. Follow on forces again make history. The only attack where dedicated torpedo planes on a specific mission accomplished accomplished their goal that I can so far find is Rennell Island. It was decidedly difficult to put such a weapon on target from such a platform, no matter the skill.

warspite1

I certainly cannot recall any SM.79's sinking any RN warship in the Med. They certainly damaged a few (cruisers mainly) - although I may be wrong.

S.79 and S.84:

At least an auxiliary sunk, i think an AA ship was also sunk, a destroyer HMS Bedouin sunk after being damaged by Italian cruisers in a naval battle.

There were 7 hits in British cruisers - HMS Liverpool twice, 1 hit in Battleship, 1 hit in a Carrier, some other hits in destroyers.
Then there are several merchants sunk and damaged.

PS: it should be noted that Italian had a very low number of Torpedo bombers initially, they started the war with zero in fact. Later missions against warships were all done against convoys for Malta, that had carrier escort.

PS2: there was also a non traditional torpedo launched from altitude with a parachute, Motobomba FFF was a circular torpedo (bought also by Germans as LT280 and LT350) also had 2 or 3 hits as far is know only in harbors.

< Message edited by Dili -- 1/23/2015 5:02:38 AM >

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 6:30:31 AM

Barb

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What about Midway USN torpedo strikes? They scored exactly 0 hits while losing 35 of 41 planes themselves... Yet their contribution to battle was absolutely critical!

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 10:21:40 AM

Jakerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili
PS: it should be noted that Italian had a very low number of Torpedo bombers initially, they started the war with zero in fact. Later missions against warships were all done against convoys for Malta, that had carrier escort.

It never stops supricing me how poorly prepared Italians went to ww2. No torpedo bombers. No carriers. 400 000 men sitting inside forts at north africa than can be encircled with 1-2 tank divisions and forced to surrender without fireing a shot.

No plans or ways to supply troops in africa. No plans or ways to counter tank divisions. Without German Africa corps help Italians would have lost war in africa in 1-2 months.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 1:15:47 PM

kev_uk

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And the consensus is that the French were 'surrender monkeys'...what were the Italians?

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 6:05:17 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili
PS: it should be noted that Italian had a very low number of Torpedo bombers initially, they started the war with zero in fact. Later missions against warships were all done against convoys for Malta, that had carrier escort.

It never stops supricing me how poorly prepared Italians went to ww2. No torpedo bombers. No carriers. 400 000 men sitting inside forts at north africa than can be encircled with 1-2 tank divisions and forced to surrender without fireing a shot.

No plans or ways to supply troops in africa. No plans or ways to counter tank divisions. Without German Africa corps help Italians would have lost war in africa in 1-2 months.

warspite1

Somewhat of an exaggeration - the number of troops encircled was not 400,000 - 130,000 in total for Compass as a whole if I recall correctly - and the Italians most certainly fired back. Still not a bad haul for Wavell's 30,000

1-2 tank divisions? If only. I am sure Richard O'Connor would have loved two properly equipped armoured divisions.

As to being unprepared - don't forget also that a large part of the Italian merchant marine was captured outside the Mediterranean

To be fair though the Italians did not think they needed carriers as Italy was one giant carrier that commanded the central Med. That was the theory anyway.

But why were they unprepared? Well remember Mussolini did not think he would be doing much fighting so it did not matter. He launched Italy into the war only once he had assumed it was over - the French were on their last legs and the British were licking their wounds from Dunkirk. "I have only to present a few thousand dead to the peace conference to get a share of the spoils". What a 24-carat $%^&

.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 6:06:20 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

And the consensus is that the French were 'surrender monkeys'...what were the Italians?

warspite1

Whose consensus? That is very unfair on the French.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 6:06:57 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

The attack of the TBDs (22 I think) at Coral Sea also deserve some mention since they apparently scored 5 hits in the first wave and 2 more in the second wave. That's somewhat over 30% total. The SBDs scored some hits (2) first aand it didn't slow Shoho down much but Lexington's TBDs apparently got 5 torpedo hits - pretty good.

I'd second that as a deserved mention.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 6:08:23 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

What about Midway USN torpedo strikes? They scored exactly 0 hits while losing 35 of 41 planes themselves... Yet their contribution to battle was absolutely critical!

I'd always considered this a Pyrrhic contribution.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 7:59:14 PM

spence

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quote:

I'd always considered this a Pyrrhic contribution.

The exact nature of the Pyrrhic part has only recently come to light. "Shattered Sword" describes their contribution as keeping the Japanese recycling their CAP: keeping their flight decks clear so that CAP planes could land and take off rather than the more traditional view that they kept the CAP at low level. In fact having worked out the time line better than before it seems VT3 conducted its attack at the same time and actually later than the dive bombers.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 8:07:28 PM

kev_uk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

And the consensus is that the French were 'surrender monkeys'...what were the Italians?

warspite1

Whose consensus? That is very unfair on the French.

Well its not my opinion - they surrendered quickly because they never wanted another war on the same scale as WW1 - it was too fresh in their minds considering that nearly every village in France has a WW1 memorial with local dead folk in it.

'Consensus' meaning that there is an opinion that France surrendered quickly. I am sure you can find references to it on the internet - I myself have argued against this opinion many a time, based on my argument above.

< Message edited by kev_uk -- 1/23/2015 9:12:36 PM >

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 9:10:42 PM

Dili

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili
PS: it should be noted that Italian had a very low number of Torpedo bombers initially, they started the war with zero in fact. Later missions against warships were all done against convoys for Malta, that had carrier escort.

It never stops supricing me how poorly prepared Italians went to ww2. No torpedo bombers. No carriers. 400 000 men sitting inside forts at north africa than can be encircled with 1-2 tank divisions and forced to surrender without fireing a shot.

No plans or ways to supply troops in africa. No plans or ways to counter tank divisions. Without German Africa corps help Italians would have lost war in africa in 1-2 months.

They started the war with only 2 battleships - Cavour an Cesare - if we can call battleship to a warship with 320mm guns and not even 300mm belt armor. More of a battlecruiser.

Like Warspite says not even Mussolini wanted war. He just wanted to be able to seat at peace conference and get some French spoils.

quote:

To be fair though the Italians did not think they needed carriers as Italy was one giant carrier that commanded the central Med. That was the theory anyway.

That was the theory and with proper aircraft might have worked. But SM-85 was failure, a dive bomber who couldn't dive, and the unique long range fighter Reggiane 2000 they had was only produced as a small series because the airforce didn't like wet wings, (in fairness and compared to others Italian aircraft since late 30's had their fuel tanks protected to 12.7mm(0.5) as a policy even in aircraft without armor)

The story of torpedo bombers were even more dismal, no one wanted them despite the industry producing aerial torpedoes, and several successful tests done in 30's. The Navy tested Radar in 1936 but the Admirals ignored it.

And the only reason they had at least some torpedo bombers in late summer of 1940 is because the new R.Aeronautica boss went against is own and believed in it.
The first aerial torpedoes that Italians employed in 1940 was from an order that the German put to the Italian industry.

The truth about Italy it is they were never a power at other major power league( France,England,Germany, USSR, Japan, USA). You can't be without a capable aircraft engine. So they would always be dependent on some major power.

Should be noted that debacle of Italians in North Africa was not certainly worse than the British debacle in Malaysia. In Malaysia at least there is water and life everywhere. In the desert you are motorized, you live in a oasis fort with a water well or you are dead.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 9:40:06 PM

spence

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The Italians had to supply the average infantry division in their army with 65 different calibers of ammunition.

The corruption within their officer corps, especially those who could have changed things, was criminal.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 10:58:21 PM

desicat

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This topic has expanded a bit so I'll just add that Luftwaffe operations against the British fleet during the Battle of Crete makes excellent reading. German Ju-87's and Ju-88's decimated the Mediterranean Fleet; sinking at least 6 Cruisers and 3 destroyers, damaging the CV Formidable, several BB's, Cruisers and DD's. It was a clinic on dive bombing. The Luftwaffe War Diaries does a great job in chronicling that campaign and others, I highly recommend it.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/23/2015 11:46:27 PM

wdolson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

And the consensus is that the French were 'surrender monkeys'...what were the Italians?

warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Whose consensus? That is very unfair on the French.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk
Well its not my opinion - they surrendered quickly because they never wanted another war on the same scale as WW1 - it was too fresh in their minds considering that nearly every village in France has a WW1 memorial with local dead folk in it.

'Consensus' meaning that there is an opinion that France surrendered quickly. I am sure you can find references to it on the internet - I myself have argued against this opinion many a time, based on my argument above.

The French surrender in 1940 is often held up as indicative of their entire military history by people who don't understand the full scope of history. To those who know more about French military history, statements like yours sound kind of like the drivel often quoted by those who like to dismiss the French as a weak military power. Their performance in 1940 was dismal, but the rest of their military history wasn't bad. The Free French even made a good accounting of themselves later in the war, at least in the same ballpark with the other Allies.

The early successes of the Germans and Japanese are indicative of what a decently equipped mid-20th century military could do against a foe who was not fully prepared. The French didn't have the greatest military leadership and they were faced with a new type of maneuver warfare nobody had ever been able to do before. They had the bad luck to be the first major land campaign with the new maneuver warfare capable with 1940 tank technology.

Italy didn't fare well in the war either. As others have pointed out, their military hardware was not the greatest. They also had severe military hardware shortages because their industrial base was just not up to the challenges and many of their designs were at least a generation behind their opponents.

Another factor was the will to fight. The Italian officer corps was full of Anglophiles. The upper classes in Italy looked to Britain for inspiration and followed their lead. So the officer corps was not very interested in fighting the British. Additionally once the US was in the war, a significant number of the enlisted ranks had family in the US and had heard stories about the US. They weren't sold on stories from the government demonizing the US. They also knew they were likely facing Italian-Americans in battle who could be their cousins. Surrender meant getting out of a war they didn't want to be in in the first place.

Mussolini never had the emotional hold on Italy that Hitler had on Germany of the rulers of Japan had on that country. When it came to taking third world countries as new colonies, people didn't have a serious problem with that, but few had the stomach for a major war and nothing Mussolini said could change their minds.

Bill

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 12:02:26 AM

kev_uk

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quote:

The French surrender in 1940 is often held up as indicative of their entire military history by people who don't understand the full scope of history. To those who know more about French military history, statements like yours sound kind of like the drivel often quoted by those who like to dismiss the French as a weak military power. Their performance in 1940 was dismal, but the rest of their military history wasn't bad. The Free French even made a good accounting of themselves later in the war, at least in the same ballpark with the other Allies.

Not my intention ever to dismiss their Military capability - considering their successes, such as under Napoleon and La Grande Armee. Quite a formidable enigma at one time past. I never ever have called the French 'surrender monkeys', which is the usual derogatory term I hear banded about over the internet, and other racist conceptions of their character and National Identity.

Your right, Blitzkrieg threw them. However, their quick capitulation is not just a military argument - rather more social factors must be considered (such as the decimation of a whole generation of French youth during WW1, the political chaos after the Popular Front govt. et al), but mainly their lack of will to engage in more bloodshed that the country couldn't afford to loose. As I stated, nearly every village in France has a WW1 memorial with the local dead of that village engraved. WW1 was a very very costly experience.

< Message edited by kev_uk -- 1/24/2015 1:04:27 AM >

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 12:40:53 AM

wdolson

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Yup.

I would not expect anyone on this forum to be one to believe the cultural narrative about the French. Most of us know far too much history for that. However, your initial comment did look somewhat like the sort of ignorant comment the uneducated make. I suspect that's why Warspite1 responded the way he did.

Bill

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 3:09:39 AM

Dili

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I think the "surrender monkeys", is not badly applied for the France of 1930's political and military class and actually not the France of 1940 that fought. French society - those that could make their voices heard at least- seem to have been inherently pessimistic at point of inviting defeat.
But this is not an anathema to the French as a whole and forever, it is valid only for a spot in time. When the Government folded, Petain took over and pursued the Armistice, many in France wanted to continue to fight.

quote:

Mussolini never had the emotional hold on Italy that Hitler had on Germany of the rulers of Japan had on that country.

Well Italy was not a Mussolini dictatorship. It was a Monarchy. With a King. And then only the Duce. And Mussolini didn't wanted a "major war" at this time. He only entered in it because he thought with France defeated a Peace Conference will follow and he wanted to have a seat. Some fascists like Ciano, Balbo warned him against it but to no avail. The King as in favor of it. He hope to get the French Riviera that once belong to the Savoia dynasty.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 3:11:38 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

This topic has expanded a bit so I'll just add that Luftwaffe operations against the British fleet during the Battle of Crete makes excellent reading. German Ju-87's and Ju-88's decimated the Mediterranean Fleet; sinking at least 6 Cruisers and 3 destroyers, damaging the CV Formidable, several BB's, Cruisers and DD's. It was a clinic on dive bombing. The Luftwaffe War Diaries does a great job in chronicling that campaign and others, I highly recommend it.

warspite1

Re sinkings I think you have cruisers and destroyers the wrong way round.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 3:31:48 AM

desicat

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You are correct sir. I took the count from page 199 and that selection was actually a quote from Richthofen's diary, he thought they got 6 cruisers.

Appendix 7 on page 370 shows 3 Cruisers sunk (Gloucester, Fiji, and Calcutta) along with 6 DD's. Damaged ships included 1 CV, 3 BB's, 7 CA's and 4 DD's. A very brutal fight from May 21 - June 01, 1941 that showed the lethal accuracy of German DB's.

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RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 3:43:36 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

You are correct sir. I took the count from page 199 and that selection was actually a quote from Richthofen's diary, he thought they got 6 cruisers.

Appendix 7 on page 370 shows 3 Cruisers sunk (Gloucester, Fiji, and Calcutta) along with 6 DD's. Damaged ships included 1 CV, 3 BB's, 7 CA's and 4 DD's. A very brutal fight from May 21 - June 01, 1941 that showed the lethal accuracy of German DB's.

Warspite1

Looks like a good book - I will give this a go.

You mention the JU-87 and JU-88 - but interestingly it was the ME-109 (in a fighter bomber role) that damaged HMS Warspite. Not sure whether this aircraft was responsible for other sinkings/damage off Crete.

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(in reply to desicat)

Post #: 58

RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 3:57:48 AM

desicat

Posts: 542
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

You are correct sir. I took the count from page 199 and that selection was actually a quote from Richthofen's diary, he thought they got 6 cruisers.

Appendix 7 on page 370 shows 3 Cruisers sunk (Gloucester, Fiji, and Calcutta) along with 6 DD's. Damaged ships included 1 CV, 3 BB's, 7 CA's and 4 DD's. A very brutal fight from May 21 - June 01, 1941 that showed the lethal accuracy of German DB's.

Warspite1

Looks like a good book - I will give this a go.

You mention the JU-87 and JU-88 - but interestingly it was the ME-109 (in a fighter bomber role) that damaged HMS Warspite. Not sure whether this aircraft was responsible for other sinkings/damage off Crete.

I just did a quick scan and a ME-109 FB did hit the Warspite, but so did the DB's. A 109 also got the crippling hit on the Fiji with a 500lb near miss that ripped her open like a mine hit would, she was finished off later by the DB's as well.

The book is one of my favorites. You will enjoy the chapters that describe Luftwaffe "Air Bridge" supply attempts in Russia.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 59

RE: What was the most succesful aerial torpedo attack? - 1/24/2015 4:07:28 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

You are correct sir. I took the count from page 199 and that selection was actually a quote from Richthofen's diary, he thought they got 6 cruisers.

Appendix 7 on page 370 shows 3 Cruisers sunk (Gloucester, Fiji, and Calcutta) along with 6 DD's. Damaged ships included 1 CV, 3 BB's, 7 CA's and 4 DD's. A very brutal fight from May 21 - June 01, 1941 that showed the lethal accuracy of German DB's.

Warspite1

Looks like a good book - I will give this a go.

You mention the JU-87 and JU-88 - but interestingly it was the ME-109 (in a fighter bomber role) that damaged HMS Warspite. Not sure whether this aircraft was responsible for other sinkings/damage off Crete.

I just did a quick scan and a ME-109 FB did hit the Warspite, but so did the DB's. A 109 also got the crippling hit on the Fiji with a 500lb near miss that ripped her open like a mine hit would, she was finished off later by the DB's as well.

The book is one of my favorites. You will enjoy the chapters that describe Luftwaffe "Air Bridge" supply attempts in Russia.

warspite1

I will check that out - I was unaware of any other damage sustained off Crete other than the attack by the three ME-109's when she entered the Kithera Channel.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to desicat)

Post #: 60