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VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS

 
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VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 2:38:47 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		"Had I been able to move the armored divisions which I had behind the coast, I am convinced that the invasion would not have succeeded."

"The root of the whole trouble was air power, air power!"






here is a link to a article from the Intelligence Bulletin, March 1946 about the views of VON RUNDSTEDT on the war in the west.
the entire site has some really good stuff.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/rundstedt/index.html

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/24/2015 4:03:07 PM >
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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 2:41:08 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		Very interesting article, though I always take Axis general recollections with a grain of salt.

Let's say the Germans did have unfettered use of the Panzers; they still would have lost. Discuss.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 2:56:46 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		would still have lost the war, most probably.

"We would certainly have been better off if a good many things had been different as regards the distribution of forces."

delay, allowing time for other events to emerge that would prevent a total unconditional surrender, maybe. To end WW1 the Germans were promised certain things and given different things when they sat down to sign the armistice. Wilson did them dirty. No doubt this was in the minds of many German commanders. "prohibitive losses" may have altered the Western Allies' demands. Patton was assassinated for a reason.

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/24/2015 3:58:07 PM >

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 3:06:45 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Status: offline 		Delay only helps the Allies. If Germany had still been fighting in August 1945, with v weapons and improved subs, exactly how long do you think it would be before Enola Gay gets European flying experience?

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 3:11:55 PM   
Crimguy


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Status: offline 		I'm sorry - I didn't realize he was assassinated. Are we saying this because of Bill O'Reilly, that great intellectual?

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 3:14:51 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		LoL....

the bomb does end it all. would we have dropped it on Europeans? they could have delayed, even stopped the Allies, the Russians would be a different problem. They would push on no matter the losses. If one Russian was alive at the front, Stalin would be on the phone asking why he was not in Berlin.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 3:18:42 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Bill O'Reilly, that great intellectual?


not sure what a entertainment newscaster has to do with this, no just that "Gelsalt" feeling and knowing how people in power are. Plus things that Patton was saying at the time.

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/26/2015 12:39:33 PM >

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 3:54:48 PM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		The atomic bomb was designed to be dropped on Germany....we basically annihilated whole German cities anyway, what makes you think we would have hesitated?

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 4:00:07 PM   
Peltonx


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Status: offline 		The facts are clearly Germany could have bottled up WA's NP and they still be on Normandy beachs by May 45, but Berlin would have fallen by then.

Game set match.

Russia was in Berlin by 45 because of one thing TRUCKS = logistics wins wars.

The Aiies won the war, but the cost would have been much higher with better choises, but its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 4:24:57 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

LoL....

the bomb does end it all. would we have dropped it on Europeans? they could have delayed, even stopped the Allies, the Russians would be a different problem. They would push on no matter the losses. If one Russian was alive at the front, Stalin would be on the phone asking why he was not in Berlin.


Why would we not have dropped it in Europe. The Allied high command was not at all hesitant in bombing Europeans (even French cities when circumstances dictated). I think any thoughts to the contrary could only be based on a whole topic that will get this thread closed rather quickly. And you need to study the German economy a little. They could have resisted more effectively in early 45 if no Bulge but I estimate a month longer only...

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 5:15:46 PM   
barkman44

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

The atomic bomb was designed to be dropped on Germany....we basically annihilated whole German cities anyway, what makes you think we would have hesitated?


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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 5:47:39 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Status: offline 		Hitler, having been gassed in WW1, was very afraid of gas and was unlikely to use it. The Gas threat had been present from day 1, and he didn't use it as the Reich collapsed. Why would the Allies have let the threat of that stop them? That would be a better argument for not invading the Continent rather than the A bomb. For all they know he would use it once the Allies crossed into Germany anyway.

And it didn't stop them in Japan either... although the delivery issue is harder there.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 5:52:42 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Patton was assassinated for a reason.



*Slowly backs away from the crazy person*

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 6:04:19 PM   
barkman44

 

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Status: offline 		Well he was against the manned fi-103 and the proposal to have pilots deliberately ram allied bombers on the
pretext that the german soldier should have a chance to survive.But eventually changed his mind.
The nuking of a major german city might have left him with no alternative.After all earlier in the war he was opposed
to indiscrimanent bombing of civilians.But after rsd survey's of public opinion that showed there should be retaliatory
attacks upon british civilian targets he relented and ordered attacks on purely civilian targets.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 6:09:53 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		I had to go outside for a little. we got snow overnight. melting now.

i like analyzing the "what ifs" of history. without putting limits on such analysis some variables will have a tidal wave effect on everything else.

Given extra time Hitler and his inner power circle may have been taken out by some part of the Germans themselves.

"The atomic bomb was designed to be dropped on Germany....we basically annihilated whole German cities anyway, what makes you think we would have hesitated"?

fire bombing just as bad. there was hesitation to drop it on anyone. one bomb, one plane and you get the results of legions.


"The Allies won the war, but the cost would have been much higher with better choises, but its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback."

While looking back at history and doing "what if's" we use too much logic. illogic thinking and logical fallacies have had the biggest influence and moved people the most throughout history.

there are many truths in life and many contradict.

"I think any thoughts to the contrary could only be based on a whole topic that will get this thread closed rather quickly."

i was thinking that same thought while outside. Bombing, Patton, Western Allies, end of war outcome the entire 1914-1945 timeline and how it relates to today.

i dont mean that in a bad way. iam not setting anything into concrete and i could find the opposite i said. most of the time i use a mouse (closed laptop) or one the little "gizmo gadgets" to type so my statements may seem cold and direct.

But dont get me started on the wars of the roses. my namesake says ancestors probably yorkist, i favor the lancasters when reading and when playing kingmaker. i believe richard iii gets a bad rap. i theorize that one side of his body was offset and bigger from swinging that one hand battleax for so many years. since he could walk maybe.



"And you need to study the German economy a little. They could have resisted more effectively in early 45 if no Bulge but I estimate a month longer only..."

by economy, you mean making stuff, buying stuff, civilian , military ?

resources wise the germans only had what they could get their hands on some way. Ive read Speer, military production was increasing on the most part.

i remember reading as a kid how a panther tank, without radio, cost 245,000 or so reichsmarks. are you serious !!!!

I have the "Furher Card" never leave home without it, print the money or put it in the account. Or even better i will show up with 1st ss and get panthers with a radio, a outside phonograph player and leather seats all with just a smile.

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/24/2015 8:08:04 PM >

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 6:14:59 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		*Slowly backs away from the crazy person*

as a kid Patton would pack a lunch go in the woods find a dead animal and then eat lunch while looking at the carcass.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 6:29:44 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

*Slowly backs away from the crazy person*

as a kid Patton would pack a lunch go in the woods find a dead animal and then eat lunch while looking at the carcass.
warspite1

That proves it then - he was definitely assassinated


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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 6:45:56 PM   
KWG


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Attachment (1)

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 6:47:16 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Or a car crash.....

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 7:12:16 PM   
KWG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

*Slowly backs away from the crazy person*

as a kid Patton would pack a lunch go in the woods find a dead animal and then eat lunch while looking at the carcass.
warspite1

That proves it then - he was definitely assassinated




Proof iam not the only crazy person in the asylum.

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/24/2015 8:13:44 PM >

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 7:34:20 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Or a car crash.....



Well as we all know, no one before or since has ever been killed in an automobile accident!

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 7:48:01 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Or a car crash.....



Well as we all know, no one before or since has ever been killed in an automobile accident!
warspite1

Quite.......

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 7:49:06 PM   
MisterBoats

 

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Status: offline 		Lol -- after Patton's staff car's tire was blown out by an expert rifle shot, the OSS agent in charge of the assassination patted the sniper on the back and said: "Nice work, Lee Harvey -- you have a bright future ahead of you."

Seriously, getting back to von Runstedt, I wonder in the game if it is necessary to hold Italy below the Po, or even further north. I suppose the VP loss could be heavy, but with the Allies at the Seine or the Rhine, I'd like to have the extra divisions available.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 7:53:40 PM   
KWG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Or a car crash.....



Well as we all know, no one before or since has ever been killed in an automobile accident!



...Or prevent their Cygnets being raised with ... undesired ... influence.

Sorry, thats was too irresistible.

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 7:56:06 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		"Seriously, getting back to von Runstedt, I wonder in the game if it is necessary to hold Italy below the Po, or even further north. I suppose the VP loss could be heavy, but with the Allies at the Seine or the Rhine, I'd like to have the extra divisions available."

von Runstedt believed in pulling all the way back to alps. i believe no resistance to allies in italy just frees up more allied forces for elsewhere.

he has good ideas on the italian campaign, yet as "someone" would say he doesn't see the economic aspects. milan, turin.

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/24/2015 9:06:38 PM >

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 8:03:30 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterBoats

Lol -- after Patton's staff car's tire was blown out by an expert rifle shot, the OSS agent in charge of the assassination patted the sniper on the back and said:
"Nice work, Lee Harvey -- you have a bright future ahead of you."

Warspite1



Except you didn't recount the full quote:

"Nice work, Lee Harvey -- you have a bright future ahead of you. I particularly liked the area you chose from which to make the shot - a grassy knoll, how clever".

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 8:15:42 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		von Runstedt would have still waited for the "phase 2"- 2nd invasion even with total control of all reserves it seems from his writings.

< Message edited by KWG -- 1/24/2015 9:17:54 PM >

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/24/2015 9:56:09 PM   
MisterBoats

 

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quote:

Warspite1



Except you didn't recount the full quote:

"Nice work, Lee Harvey -- you have a bright future ahead of you. I particularly liked the area you chose from which to make the shot - a grassy knoll, how clever".



Lee replied, "Thanks, Mr. Haliburton!" Honestly, the most obvious explanations are the least likely to be believed. I'll say no more.

I have always been amused by von Runstedt's ire at having the Ardennes Offensive carry his name during the war. von Stompyfoot is more like it.


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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/25/2015 12:18:20 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterBoats

quote:

Warspite1



Except you didn't recount the full quote:

"Nice work, Lee Harvey -- you have a bright future ahead of you. I particularly liked the area you chose from which to make the shot - a grassy knoll, how clever".


I have always been amused by von Runstedt's ire at having the Ardennes Offensive carry his name during the war. von Stompyfoot is more like it.


warspite1

I didn't understand this comment about von Rundstedt's name and the Ardnennes Offensive so I looked it up. It seems you were right - it appears the Field Marshal's full name (taken from his birth certificate) was Karl Rudolf Gert Wacht Am Rhein von Rundstedt...... Who knew right?

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RE: VON RUNDSTEDT EXPLAINS - 1/25/2015 12:49:54 AM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		"...von Runstedt's ire at having the Ardennes Offensive carry his name during the war."

it carried his name all the while being hitlers baby.

von Runstedt was just upset because hitler would not let him at the big table during planning.

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