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Withdraw air units early to receive PP's

 
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Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 6:36:44 AM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		The manual (7.2.2) states when withdrawing air units that "The assets of units subject to forced withdrawal are returned to the pilot and aircraft pools."

My question is, if you withdraw an air unit early to receive political points, do the aircraft and pilots still return to the pools in addition to receiving the PP's?

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 1/28/2015 7:37:44 AM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Post #: 1
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 10:00:50 AM   
Banzan

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 3/13/2010
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline 		Nope, its either PPs or planes and pilots, not both. :)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 2
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 11:10:54 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		It's after you click No to the offer of PPs that you get a second interface asking if you want to send the planes and pilots to the pools.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Banzan)
Post #: 3
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 11:39:52 AM   
wegman58

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 12/28/2013
From: Edina, MN (FROM the Bronx)
Status: offline 		AND you can withdraw ALL of the pilots BEFORE you withdraw (I'm using latest patch, no DBB or anything) and it still gives you PP. If I have training squadrons I withdraw a few days early to make sure I don't forget - BUT I withdraw all the pilots first.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 4
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 4:39:11 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Um.... I get both pilots/planes and PPs? Has anyone actually checked rather than taking it for gospel that it's one or the other? I feel like this comes up every so often and that response is automatic by so many... but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

Obviously you don't get the planes in your pools right away, there's a delay. But check your pilot pools.

Before I withdraw these units early, I press 'n'/click 'no' and make sure that the next dialogue is "withdraw planes/pilots to pools?" If it is, you should get the pilots/planes AND the PPs. If it's "losing planes/pilots", then you won't get them.

The PP payment is for losing use of it early, not for the tangible resources of the pilots/planes.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 1/28/2015 5:39:49 PM >

(in reply to wegman58)
Post #: 5
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 5:32:28 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Before I withdraw these units early, I press 'n'/click 'no' and make sure that the next dialogue is "withdraw planes/pilots to pools?" If it is, you should get the pilots/planes AND the PPs. If it's "losing planes/pilots", then you won't get them.

The PP payment is for losing use of it early, not for the tangible resources of the pilots/planes.


This is what I find confusing. The first option that comes up when you try to withdraw an air unit is to receive a certain number of PP's if you select 'Y' and the unit withdraws, but it does not state that the planes and pilots were returned to the pools. If you first select 'n'/click 'no' and make sure the next dialogue is "withdraw planes/pilots to the pools?" did you, or didn't you, receive the PP's when the planes/pilots are withdrawn? My take is that if I select 'Y' to withdraw early and receive the PP's I lose the planes/pilots, but if I select 'N' to the PP's and then 'Y' to the withdrawal of the planes/pilots I don't receive the PP's.

I guess what I need to do is try both options and see what happens to my PP's immediately after. If they only increase in one option I'll have my answer.


< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 1/28/2015 6:33:44 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 6
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 6:05:53 PM   
EHansen


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/6/2013
Status: offline 		And check your aircraft pools. I have found that I get PPs, pilots, and aircraft. I remove my pilots manually, select yes to the PP question and then accept the next question about withdrawing/disbanding.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 7
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 6:05:55 PM   
DConn

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Bainbridge Island, WA
Status: offline
quote:

Um.... I get both pilots/planes and PPs? Has anyone actually checked rather than taking it for gospel that it's one or the other? I feel like this comes up every so often and that response is automatic by so many... but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

Obviously you don't get the planes in your pools right away, there's a delay. But check your pilot pools.

Before I withdraw these units early, I press 'n'/click 'no' and make sure that the next dialogue is "withdraw planes/pilots to pools?" If it is, you should get the pilots/planes AND the PPs. If it's "losing planes/pilots", then you won't get them.

The PP payment is for losing use of it early, not for the tangible resources of the pilots/planes.


I have the same experience as Lokasenna. The messages are a little confusing, but (assuming the air unit is not one where you lose the planes and pilots), the early withdrawal gets you BOTH the PPs and the planes & pilots.

_____________________________

--Dave Conn
Currently defending the free world against montesaurus, DBB-B, Scen. 28

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 6:44:43 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		All of the pilots and the airframes do go to the pools when withdrawing the group early and netting the PPs.

Here is an example. Notice the dates. It also (at least can) transfer pilots and airframes immediately.






Attachment (1)

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to DConn)
Post #: 9
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 6:55:19 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Sweet, that's what I wanted to confirm. Thanks Erik for the screenshots.

As Conn mentions, I found the messages a little confusing.

Thank you all for the comments. Time to withdraw AVG a little early.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 10
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 7:23:11 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen

And check your aircraft pools. I have found that I get PPs, pilots, and aircraft. I remove my pilots manually, select yes to the PP question and then accept the next question about withdrawing/disbanding.



But I don't get "the next question"? unless I click "no" to the first question?

Clicking yes to the first question prevents me from ever getting the second question.

This is what leads me to believe it is an "either or" proposition.

Very, very confusing.

How do you manage to get the second question when clicking yes to the first question?

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to EHansen)
Post #: 11
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 7:28:30 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen

And check your aircraft pools. I have found that I get PPs, pilots, and aircraft. I remove my pilots manually, select yes to the PP question and then accept the next question about withdrawing/disbanding.



But I don't get "the next question"? unless I click "no" to the first question?

Clicking yes to the first question prevents me from ever getting the second question.

This is what leads me to believe it is an "either or" proposition.

Very, very confusing.

How do you manage to get the second question when clicking yes to the first question?


This was exactly my issue Hans, and what I was finding confusing. You don't get that second option if you select 'Y' to the withdraw for PP's option. It just says planes/pilots withdrawing after you do, but no indication if it was to the pools.

I think obvert's post clears it up for me and I'll be confident moving forward withdrawing units for the PP's knowing the planes/pilots are entering the pools.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 12
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 7:36:48 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Thanks Obvert. You beat me to the screenshots - I reformatted today and hadn't reinstalled WITP yet. Photoshop, but not WITP...

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 13
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 8:15:22 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		You can harvest about 33% add'l PP if you 'Divide Unit' & withdraw the 3 components individually. But I would AVOID doing this for an airgroup that's scheduled to re-appear, I'm not sure that the game-engine can recognize & rebuild the withdrawn components.

(in reply to DConn)
Post #: 14
Different Results for Different Sides - 1/28/2015 10:14:14 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline 		I'm testing out the new public beta version and have seen some interesting results testing out comments posted in this thread. One thing I noticed is that withdrawing works differently for Japanese and Allied aircraft groups. For the Japanese you can get PP's and have planes and pilots go to the pools. I haven't seen PP's or planes and pilots going to the pool for American and British plane groups. I also see that as the American player if you answer no to withdrawing air groups you don't get asked a second question to place planes and pilots into the pool.

I also see differences if the Withdraw or Disband line is in red versus white. Looks like when the Withdraw line is red you won't get PP's or planes or pilots. I found that the early Bolos the Americans have that have to be withdrawn can't be withdrawn, only disbanded with a total loss of planes and pilots. Makes me wonder if America should just use those Bolos bombers for pilot training the whole game despite the PP cost.

I also find some interesting information in a pop-up black box when mousing over the Withdraw or Disband buttons. Sometimes that info box says you won't be getting the group back or the planes or pilots.

I've also gotten some strange answers when withdrawing some early American air groups at Seattle and Spokane. It gives a weird line about withdrawing the unit while it's in the reinforcement queue. However it does give a return date of over a thousand days. Sometimes I just get that the unit is disbanded.

It looks like there's a lot of information with the new public beta but some of it seems to be conflicted. I've clicked on the Yes answer to withdraw an air unit to get the PP's and it gives me some jive answer about withdrawing the unit while in the reinforcement queue but it then says it's giving me the PP's while disbanding the group. It sure seems confusing and after reading this thread through and doing some quick testing I'm finding there is no quick or definitive answers.

My best suggestion is that if you're using the new public beta you read the tooltip boxes as they pop up when you mouse over the Withdraw or Disband buttons and again when you're presented with the Yes or No choices. Plus you have to read the tooltip box that quickly and shortly pops up after you click on Yes or No. No seems to mean different things for the Japanese and Allies when withdrawing, for Japan you get a second choice but not so far that I've seen for the Allies. Plus whether those lines are in Red or White seems to make a difference as to whether units come back or are totally lost along with all pilots and planes. The manual states that some air groups are permanently disbanded to control how many air groups a side can field for play balance purposes.

I hope this has muddied up the waters some and someone with more game experience and using the new public beta version can relate actual game play action to these tooltip messages.

Omnius

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 15
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/28/2015 10:20:52 PM   
EHansen


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen

And check your aircraft pools. I have found that I get PPs, pilots, and aircraft. I remove my pilots manually, select yes to the PP question and then accept the next question about withdrawing/disbanding.



But I don't get "the next question"? unless I click "no" to the first question?

Clicking yes to the first question prevents me from ever getting the second question.

This is what leads me to believe it is an "either or" proposition.

Very, very confusing.

How do you manage to get the second question when clicking yes to the first question?


You are probably right Hans, I was going by memory which is not as good as it used to be.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 16
Yes Means No Second Choice - 1/29/2015 2:25:46 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline 		HansBolter,
Clicking on the Yes button shouldn't give you a second choice like clicking on No does. Plus if you click on No as the Allies you get no second choice that I've seen so far. You really have to pay attention to tooltip boxes as you mouse over the buttons for Withdraw and Disband and for the Yes and No answers.

Omnius

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 17
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/29/2015 3:29:36 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Time to withdraw AVG a little early.


Yes. Good idea!

Can you withdraw some of those B-17Es also? And those P-38Es? Just think of the political point gains!

_____________________________


(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 18
RE: Withdraw air units early to receive PP's - 1/29/2015 4:15:53 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Yes. Good idea!

Can you withdraw some of those B-17Es also? And those P-38Es? Just think of the political point gains!




Um...no

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 19
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