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AC Top Speeds - 2/3/2015 3:19:13 PM   
MattTheDamon

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/30/2015
Status: offline 		I was curious about ac top speeds and ceiling heights. They seem to be capped at M1.65 and 40k.Specifically I am looking at the F-111(one of my favorite ac of all time) which I believe can reach 60k and speeds around M2.5. I hope this is all temporary as it kinda kills some of the realism for me. Also dissapointing to not be able to see my favorite ac perform at their peaks.One other thing when I lower an ac speed it instantly drops to that speed.

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 2/5/2015 1:19:19 AM >
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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/3/2015 3:28:58 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		There is a good bit in our FAQ about this.

Please do give it a read

http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2920#624

Thanks!

Mike

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/3/2015 4:33:20 PM   
Dimitris

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MattTheDamon
Specifically I am looking at the F-111(one of my favorite ac of all time) which I believe can reach 60k and speeds around M2.5.

And did this how many times operationally?

quote:


One other thing when I lower an ac speed it instantly drops to that speed.

Take the F-111 for a ride in your favorite flight sim. Go to high speed. Then throttle full back, deploy the airbrake and count how many seconds it takes to fall down to the desired speed. Ask yourself if those seconds matter in the grand scheme of a RL-scale air op.

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/3/2015 6:14:41 PM   
MattTheDamon

 

Posts: 9
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Status: offline 		I cant believe I missed that I have been thru the faq a number of times. It does make me sad to see speeds generalized like that tho. I understand you cant drop bombs or acquire targets at M2.5 but I think its intended max speed was for escaping other fighters/missiles/enemy territory to increase its survivability. Sure its not ment to operate a long time at max speed but to escape it would not need to and the few minutes or seconds could make the difference.The fact the 111 is a medium sized bomber that can reach speeds of around M2.5 is what makes it special to me. There are lots of other ac that could carry what it does. I like to compare the b-52 to the b-1. Take away the b-1 speed advantage whats the difference? If top speed was not very important or not ment to be used then why did they make 111 with swept wings and build it for speed?

On the other side even with a loadout it should have a higher speed then most bombers(swept wings) which would give it an advantage to intercept targets that are time sensitive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MattTheDamon
Specifically I am looking at the F-111(one of my favorite ac of all time) which I believe can reach 60k and speeds around M2.5.

And did this how many times operationally?

quote:


One other thing when I lower an ac speed it instantly drops to that speed.

Take the F-111 for a ride in your favorite flight sim. Go to high speed. Then throttle full back, deploy the airbrake and count how many seconds it takes to fall down to the desired speed. Ask yourself if those seconds matter in the grand scheme of a RL-scale air op.


I dont know how many times it did it do you? I know if I was a bomber pilot I would use my ac top speed every single time I thought it would help save my life.

The brake issue isnt a big deal I was just curious.It only takes a few seconds to increase speed as well.

On a side note this forum deleting everything you just typed up because you put a link in your post and you dont have 20 posts yet is a pain in the

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 12:00:07 AM   
cf_dallas


Posts: 303
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Grapevine, TX
Status: offline 		Fire up the same flight sim and count how many MINUTES (not seconds) it takes to get to 2.0, let alone 2.5; do it with a bomb load, do it without, it really doesn't matter. And check out how much fuel you burn getting there. I love the beast too, but 2.5 isn't a tactically relevant number for the Vark. 1.2, clean, flat out on the deck, yes.... fastest thing in the world at low level, running away after obliterating some poor bastards air force (eat it, Muamar). The advertised top speed of a jet only really mattered for one airplane, the Blackbird. For everyone else it was mostly bragging rights.

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 12:14:42 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Probably worth pointing out that we try and program the AI to take a shots at aircraft at a reasonable range where it would be very difficult to turn and escape a missile shot by out running it. So the turn and burn will not likely give you the benefit an older game did:) This will be more so with next build as players and scenario designers will be able to specify that on their own.

Mike

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 12:17:08 AM   
mikmykWS

 

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Status: offline 		Rope-A-Dope gone too. No more bouncing one in as bait for the AI CAP to chase so you can nail with your other guy. There are now self defense values.

Mike

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 12:35:37 PM   
Jabbman


Posts: 30
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: offline 		Aside from the top speed vs cruise speed discussion above, there are a couple of points to consider:

The SR-71 is supposedly (RL) meant to be most fuel efficient (i.e. cruise speed) at M3.2, whereas in-game, cruise is set to M0.82 (480kts) and the range is drastically reduced flying at Military (M3.17).

The English Electric Lightning F.6 had a RL cruise speed of 595kts (515 in-game) and would surpass M2.0 on low afterburner, whereas it is capped in-game at M1.66, like many other fighters.

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 8:16:29 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
Probably worth pointing out that we try and program the AI to take a shots at aircraft at a reasonable range where it would be very difficult to turn and escape a missile shot by out running it. So the turn and burn will not likely give you the benefit an older game did:) This will be more so with next build as players and scenario designers will be able to specify that on their own.


Not to mention, getting the enemy missile on your six will now be a really dumb move, evasion-wise. Beam or die.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 2/4/2015 9:16:46 PM >

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 9:03:41 PM   
MattTheDamon

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/30/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cf_dallas

Fire up the same flight sim and count how many MINUTES (not seconds) it takes to get to 2.0, let alone 2.5; do it with a bomb load, do it without, it really doesn't matter. And check out how much fuel you burn getting there. I love the beast too, but 2.5 isn't a tactically relevant number for the Vark. 1.2, clean, flat out on the deck, yes.... fastest thing in the world at low level, running away after obliterating some poor bastards air force (eat it, Muamar). The advertised top speed of a jet only really mattered for one airplane, the Blackbird. For everyone else it was mostly bragging rights.


I would love for command to simulate acceleration in real time like that for all the jets. The more real the better for me.Im going to go out on a limb because I have or will never fly any mil ac and say that it takes awhile for most ac to reach their top speeds so that is relative.Its like saying a base corvette is basically as fast as a corvette zr1 because it takes a long time for a zr1 to reach its top speed.Well it takes a long time for a base vette to reach its top speed too.If you started them from 0 to top speed the zr1 would blow the base vette away and be way way ahead by the time they both reach their top speeds.Also if I want to burn my fuel on max thrust so what?Its a good thing the 111 has deep tanks.Allow me the option just like in rl.How long would it take to reach max speed if you make a rapid descent for 5k or 10k feet in that sim?

For example take an f-5 tiger 2 and an f15 e and go from 350 to 950.The tiger will reach 950 about 5 sec before the f15e.tiger top speed is about m1.6 and f15 is about 2.5.This game bleeds realism so why gimp ac performance.An f-5 tiger gets to reach its max speed but an f15e doesnt.See what I am saying.We use this game to sim engagements realistically but how can you do that if you gimp ac performance.

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 10:59:33 PM   
Jabbman


Posts: 30
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: offline 		One of the points being made above is that an F-15 driver would almost never use its max speed in combat situations: either due to payload affecting performance, or ridiculous fuel consumption.

< Message edited by Jabbman -- 2/4/2015 11:59:55 PM >

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RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 11:20:43 PM   
MattTheDamon

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/30/2015
Status: offline 		But an f-5 tiger II driver would?

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Post #: 12
RE: AC Top Speeds - 2/4/2015 11:38:45 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

We appreciate everybody's input and more often than not do add things that are asked for however we (the developers) ultimately make the decisions on the directions of the models and game. Discussing on the forum is fine up until it turns into a circular thing that goes nowhere productive which is why I locked this for a few. Please read our FAQ bit mentioned above and discussed by several players.. If you'd like to discuss further feel free to PM me or anybody else on the team. We're the one's that will decide and then implement.

Thanks

Mike

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 2/5/2015 1:18:18 AM >

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