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Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemcio231 (A) - no Przemcio231 please

 
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Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemcio231 (A... - 2/8/2015 5:58:43 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Music and Musings to describe the misadventures of a first time run thru the Full Campaign game against a live, and lively opponent.

Have I jumped into depths over my head? Will I sink or swim? Am I just another man overboard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkHQAvZEM1o

Win or lose, I'm not going away. Like my prose or hate it, I have a few things to say about WitPAE in general and this game as it develops. Over the past 18 months I have played other games less and less. This is a challenge and I am pleased to get the journey started.

This is the start of a game against Przemcio231 as the Ever Powerful Good Guys. If Prezemcio231 is reading this line – Let’s have a good match and stop reading right now.
I have not played a grand campaign before so what is there that I can offer the community that hasn’t been tried before. There are some great past and current AARs to read for better historical writing, tactical flourish and comedic entertainment. I have learned a lot from viewing over other’s shoulders but regardless of how detailed or entertaining the writing, there is no teacher better than getting into the ring and taking in on the nose a few times.

I am sure to make mistakes – and maybe if I give these cautionary lessons along with a few other tricks and treats I have picked up playing the short campaigns for the past 18 months – then maybe it will give the more experienced player a chuckle or hold a light out for those who are wanting to learn this game.

House Rules:
Prezemcio231’s request was simple: not to carry out the 2nd day Pearl Harbor strike.
Me: more concerned about the problems I have read about in the various AARs. I agreed with his premise but the requested a whole host of ‘Japanese Friendly’ settings and a few very specific house rules which, if I survive long enough, will go a long way to creating that elusive ‘historical game’ feeling.
Realism:
FOW – ON / Advanced Weather – ON / Allied Damage Control – ON / PDU – ON / Historic 1st Turn – ON / Dec 7th Surprise – ON
Reliable USN Torps – OFF / Realistic R&D – OFF / No Unit Withdrawl – OFF
** Game and Preference Settings as usual (Auto Upgrades and Replacements OFF) **
House Rules:
1. Only 1st Day Strike Pearl Harbor
2. Air Altitude Mission Restrictions: 1941,1942 Max 25K / 1943,1944 Max 30K / 1945,1946 Max 35K
3. Bombing Restrictions: No city/strategic bombing into or out of China before 1945.
4. Night Bombing Restrictions: 1941,1942 Total # bombers/escorts/sweepers on one target per turn is 75 planes / 1943,1944 Total # per target is 125 / 1945,1946 No limit
5. Picket Ships: Task forces on Offensive Patrols should have 3 or more ships. Offensive Patrol = any non-submarine mission that has a patrol zone or destination that does not include a friendly port. No supply or support ships can be used as picket forces.
6. Death Stars: With the sole exception of the KB, no task force may have more than 4 CVs/CVLs/CVEs. If the Japanese KB is ever destroyed or disbanded, the KB may never be recreated.
7. Only TKs and AOs can transport oil or fuel. There are some xAKs which also have small fuel bunkers which will load fuel normally when loading supplies. No other xAKLs or xAKs can load oil or fuel.

The hypothesis behind these rules is to reduce the air war attrition while adding the asw/submarine war element by forcing players to value and guard those AOs and TKs more dearly. The concessions of R&D OFF, Scenario 2 and PDU ON were intended to provide resources to put into more merchant ship building and the ships and aircraft needed to patrol and protect those shipping lanes.

With all the initial communications verified and confirmed – time to light flairs and load the ships … and some of you others toss a line to that poor bastage floundering in the wake.


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/9/2015 5:16:20 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/8/2015 6:34:34 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Dec 7th.

Pixelated family and friends over a thousand miles away gab over Scype while I setup the game, push a button, save the results and then get the return from Przemico231 all the way from far away in Warsaw. Imagine how utterly fantastic and magical such a proposition would have been for the people who actually lived during the times we are about to game.

As a general comment, I have this game in its own directory and with it, I have in the tools sub-directory, an install of Combat Report, Intel Monkey and Tracker. I highly suggest you get comfortable with creating multiple installs of the game and getting these tools installed to help manage the game.

Once you start running 'the Game' and these tools, you will notice difference in reports of ships sunk. The in game screens have more of the fog of war effect than the tools report, althought they also mis-report ship sinkings as well. I guess that is what fog is all about, you need multiple strobes of information to get closer to the 'truth'.

It took about 3 game turns for the full results of the Pearl Harbor strike to come into focus.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 2
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/8/2015 6:52:45 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Dec 7th (cont.)
Fate of Force Z:
BB Prince of Wales is reported to have been sunk near Mersing on Dec 07, 1941
BC Repulse is reported to have been sunk near Mersing on Dec 07, 1941

Raid on Pearl Harbor:
Again a frightful harvest of skilled Pilots. Many of the damaged planes wound up becoming OPS losses.
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 13 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 5 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 15 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 133 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 11 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 45 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 6 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 6 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 34 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 4 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 35 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 20 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 5 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 16 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 5 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 38 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 2 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 27 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 8 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 9 damaged
O-47A: 3 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 2 damaged
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD MacDonough, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Litchfield, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CM Oglala, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Cachalot, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Farragut, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 3, on fire
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DMS Trevor, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Phelps, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Monaghan, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AVD Thornton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1
AD Dobbin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Castor, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AM Vireo, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Repair Shipyard hits 7
Airbase hits 37
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 97
Magazine explodes on BB Oklahoma

Overall, a good raid but when I opened up the Dec 08th turn, Kaga and Akagi air groups – particually their Fighter Sentai, are seriously depleted.
In other parts, the raids and amphibious assaults go as pre-planned.
Japanese forces CAPTURE Batan Island !!!
It is the beginning of Dec 08 when I feel the weight of the mountain that must be shifted thru some reasonable level of control.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 3
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/8/2015 7:04:31 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		At this point I need to say a special shout out THANK YOU to Kull.
I have used and abused the good work from Kull's Japan SetUp excel file. I have been tinkering with it for about 9 months now and feel I am miles ahead of understanding the questions of Who/What/Where than I would have been without your useful tool.


If you don't know what I am talking about, search out post by Kull and you will eventually find a signature or link to these spreadsheets (yes, there is one for the Alies too)

I am still trying to add my own twist and notations as I go along,

Second Shout Out --
In the Very Wise Words of PaxMondo (and others probably before probably) ---
You can't do EVERYTHING the first turn.

You will NEVER get the turn back to your poor waiting opponent, so (back to the Kull Spreadsheet) start carving up that mountain of suggestions into priorities. I will try to give a review of this process.



< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/8/2015 8:06:15 AM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 4
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/8/2015 7:27:43 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Dec 08, 1942

General Warning -- Japan and her forces are in danger of supply and fuel shortages until you get convoys started up from the DEI, China and Korea. Given the special house rule, the increased importance of AOs and TKs is high on my mind. The great Kull worksheets plan of using xAKs and xAKLs to move fuel and oil so I have to figure all this out on my own.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

General Industrial Settings:
Open up the Industry panel. Click All Industries (the screen should go blank). Click Manpower. Look below and see the ARROW to turn Repair Off. Click Manpower again - should again have a blank industrial screen.

Click RD Air. Click ARROW to turn Repair Off. Click RD Air again (blank industrial screen)
Repeat process again for
MerSY (Merchant Shipyards) - Turn Repair AND Production OFF
NavSY (Naval Shipyards) - Turn Repair AND Production OFF
Armaments - Turn Repair AND Production OFF
Vehicles - Turn Repair AND Production OFF

I can hear some fingers itching to type:
Woah, Dude - turning off all the toys? wtf???
This is a TEMPORARY measure. You will turn on the NavSY back by Turn 3 or 4 when you have a little more time to review the Ship Build Queue - I hope to have a lot of discussion on this later. All the rest will have to be ramped up as the first couple of weeks play out.

Cut the crap (noise) and tackle the long list of trying to get your forces loaded on ships (with a little supplies and fuel) and headed in the right direction. Getting a PLAN on that is still something I am grappling with and probably will for years to come, ain't that GREAT?

Refresh General Warning: Watch tracker and your supply/fuel/industry levels and get Comfortable with the idea of turning stuff off, on and accellerating it as the situation demands.


(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 5
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 12:55:43 AM   
Malagant

 

Posts: 372
Joined: 3/13/2004
Status: offline 		Enjoying this so far, thanks for writing!

Anxious to see how you handle the R&D! This is the biggest stumbling block for me now!

_____________________________

"La Garde meurt, elle ne se rend pas!"

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 6
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 12:59:40 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Malagant)
Post #: 7
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 1:10:27 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

Enjoying this so far, thanks for writing!

Anxious to see how you handle the R&D! This is the biggest stumbling block for me now!


Welcome -- I plan on dealing with R&D in a number of post. There are a few benefits of the Realistic R&D off which will come up soon.
Thanks for reading. I will be adding a couple more post late tonight (need to get another game turn flipped before that).

(in reply to Malagant)
Post #: 8
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 1:15:26 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli



Sensei!

Welcome, and thanks for all the guidance you have given budding JFBs such as I.



(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 9
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 1:18:29 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Good luck! Pound those Allies!

You are off to a good start with the POW and Repulse down, and a very good Pearl strike.

Now....sink the Boise!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/9/2015 2:19:47 AM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 10
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 1:27:54 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Good luck! Pound those Allies!

You are off to a good start with the POW and Repulse down, and a very good Pearl strike.

Now....sink the Boise!


Thank you sir, and I would like to direct other readers to check out your AAR with similar Realistic R&D Off settings.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3549450

It has been an interesting journey. You are focused hard on getting specific late war models out (no cross talk outside your AAR) -- so those curious, please go check out Lowpe's tale.

Petes and Alfs and Dinahs, oh my....


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/9/2015 2:29:06 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 11
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 3:14:15 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		A general musing question in real time game play.

How dangerous is it to run the KB thru the middle of the DEI (Between Manado/Ternate - torch Kendari to Sorabaja and back past Baikpapan to refuel/reload at Babeldaob. I would add a couple of SCFTs to assist, or is this just too risky.

These ships could easily be added to the mix
a couple of older BBs (Ise and Hyuga),
about 6 CAs (Furutaka, Kako, Ashigara,Myoko, Nachi, Haguro)
a couple of CLs (Natori
and a dozen DDs (3 Kamikaze Class, 3 Mutsuki Class, 5 Kangero Class to the original KB.

I can also pull in Zuiho, Hosho (with heavy fighter cover) and Taiyo (heavy Val setup currently) with their own escorts.

Burning the DEI is on my mind...
The other route would be to push down the side of Malaysia with this force and Burn Singapore down to support the invasion of Palembang (but that will take another week to get a decent sized invasion force loaded and down there. In the meantime I could be Burning the East Side down.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/9/2015 4:22:01 AM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 12
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 4:27:53 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Reading both sides, so these comments are in answer only to the general nature of your question about KB movement in the DEI.

It seems all or nearly all of my IJ opponents have done so at some point in the early months, sometimes very early. I'm sure that you know the Allied air units in the early going are in tough shape, but there are some good ones, some of which are torpedo armed. The surface units, while generally outnumbered and certainly endangered themselves by Imperial air power, are quite dangerous. The submarine danger is obvious.

The matter of what level of danger there is to the KB all depends on the Allied player's deployments, and with the wonderful fog of war that this game provides that translates into "what you judge to be out there".

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 13
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 8:39:36 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

It seems all or nearly all of my IJ opponents have done so at some point in the early months, sometimes very early.


Thanks so much for reading along.
I've already been stung a couple of times by being too anxious to push forward (more on that later). I want to get the oil flowing as soon as possible.

The obvious route would be down the side of Malaysia and that is where most of the Dutch Subs are currently. I was thinking a relatively quick heavy raid into the East End of the DEI could wreck some shipping, beat down his air units and throw a little more instability into his defensive plans.

Still musing over the idea.





(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 14
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 9:58:52 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		How many hours do you put into the Dec 8th turn?

In this case I clocked in over 30 hours and still had to ignore some areas. My opponent has not complained about my turn around time. It is pressure of my own making to get the game going and see what happens next.

As I grow more confident and comfortable, as my tools to manage the game improve - I hope to trim that down considerably.

The game requires balance to attract players of both sides. A lot of this is not exactly historic, more like the of the Colleen McCullough books set at the end of the Roman Republic: rich in detail but with the license of fiction allowed to make it a good story.

Balanced, maybe - fanciful at times I agree, but this game is not easy.
For neither side.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 15
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 10:23:04 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		As I mentioned before I have a set of worksheets that I am still shaping with my own notes and decisions.

I did process all of China, Malaysia, Indochina, Phillipines, Caroline Islands, area around Pearl Harbor and a couple of other very important Day One moves in the other areas. Thirty plus hours?

Noob-Tip:
In this worksheet are massive notes about routing ships to different ports with directions to Move to (x), Set Home Port to (x).
It is Much Faster if you set the Home Port designation first and then click on the Arrow that says Return to (home port) -- then you don't have to fish across the map TWICE to set that point TWICE.

Honesty Confession - it took me a couple of hours to figure that smooth move out.

Big Strategy:
still thinking on it, but getting to Palembang as quickly as possible is the Top Item.
More later


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/9/2015 11:24:21 PM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 16
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 10:23:32 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		About the KB:

KB strikes complete - I review the status of the air groups.
Again, Kaga and Akagi have taken the brunt of the damage.

At this point I have to confess a previous test run game against a very long time PBEM partner influenced my handling of the KB for the next week.

In that test game, Kaga and Agaki air groups took a bit worse damage so I decided to split the KB, set them to follow the DD/AO task force around the North of Midway home and then skake the rest of the KB thru the French Shoal to bomb Wake. Not too controversal right?

Well my opponent swung a carrier North just East of Midway and clobbered the DD/AO task force, damaged Kaga and Akagi enough to be 6 months yard time before I sank that task force.
Yes killing an American Carrier on the last turn we played in that test game was nice, but ... damn, a lot of wreckage was left behind.

Ok, back to this game.
Remember the special house rule about fuel and oil.
Tankers and Oilers are very valuable and losing 3 or 4 of them is a terrible blow, even for an American Carrier. After all they get so many eventually you can't flush a toilet without getting it clogged up with one.

So for this first week, I am walking -- not sprinting, the DD/AO task force and the KB to an area between Wake and Kwajalen. There are other forces I want to get in place ahead of the KB anyway.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 17
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 10:33:54 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Dec 08th Planning (cont)

The focus for the Phillipines is to quickly bottle up the Allies around Manilla and then let them starve for awhile before the final push. This allows me to draw off a little force for the battles of Java.

I am sending in the bombers to Manilla and Rangoon and pound some Chinese troops out in the open.

Massive flocks of small fleet transport ships will depart this turn toward designated shipping ports and start relaying Resources, Supplies, Fuel and Oil. -- that in itself took many hours to cull out the different types and get them heading the right way.

In the Kull worksheet, it calls for the Yusen-N Cargo ships to congregate in the Toyohara port. This ship has a separate fuel bunker which means they are one of the few xAKs who can haul fuel (as part of a normal cargo load). I went ahead with the Kull move just to get a concentration, but after the dust settles -- sometime in January 42, I will probably route those ships toward the DEI to transport Resources and Oil.

If I ever start another game with these transport rules, I would probably choose another port to gather the Yusen-N and any other cargo ships with fuel bunkers.


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/9/2015 11:36:14 PM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 18
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 10:36:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Turns can definitely eat the time up... Doing a nice AAR even more!

Let us talk a little plane research, what are your thoughts.

Personally, I don't think you need to spend a lot to develop good early fighters like first Tojo. Japan is supreme and you can use other tactics depending upon your overall strategy.

Remember you can switch producing factories back to research with no damage as long as the factories research the next generational plane. This makes Oscar and Zero pretty darn attractive. Also, since a producing factory repairs 1 point per day, you can have 5 size 30 factories up producing Oscar for 30 days, and then switch them down the line to one of the later models (the first armored one most likely).

Seems to me you need fighters that can:

1. take down enemy bombers in 42
2. defend against a lightning sweep in 42
3. defend against a thunderbolt sweep in 43.

Of course that is all relative...you may only lose 5-1 instead of 10-1.

You can probably get an armored Oscar very early; Frank a and then r early.
Pick George or Jack for the Navy.
Uber late war planes try to get something early.
Don't forget Night fighters...even with your HR you want to plan for them now.

You can still make enough planes to run one or two sentais of the oddball planes.

Have fun.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 19
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/9/2015 11:08:41 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Let us talk a little plane research, what are your thoughts.



I appreciate and need all the advice I can get with this.
Locally it is dinner time so only a short post but will return to this subject (often).

My go slow approach was to turn off all R&D repairs. I did increase supply requirements at most Home Island cities on turn one. After Turn 4, to allow time for supply to build, I have started to turn on, change, and put shape the R&D plan.

So far I have (from memory - dinner bell is ringing) - on the 15th of Dec, 1941
R&D
4(x30) A6M3 (get that zero line running)
2(x30) Ki-84a (Frank A's)
3(x30) Ki-49-Ia (Eventually rush the armored Helen)

and a few others --
but lots of lines are still 'OFF' awaiting orders.


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/10/2015 8:00:28 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 20
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 7:19:38 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		R&D report as of the end of day 16 Dec, 1941

Current focus:
5x(30) A6M3 factories running. Do you think this will be enough to drive the Zero production for the long term?
3x(30) Ki-49 Ia Hellen (will roll up the chain to get those armored Helens as soon as I can)
2x(30) Ki-84a Frank
2x(30) N1K1-J George

Other notes:
1x(30) Ki-43-IIa Oscar
1x(30) Ki-45 KAIa Nick

1x(30) D3A2 Vals
1x(30) D4Y1 Judy
1x(30) D4Y1-C Judy -- is this a bad move doing both Judy planes?

1x(40?) J1N1-C Irving -- a fatigue mistake increasing to 40, and you don't get an UNDO button with the industry screen.

a general warning - I've read before but didn't follow:
Save your game before doing any dinking with the Industry Screen so that if you do muck it up, you can just exit the game and reload from the save... another proof of that wisdom.

There are a lot of other research lines to open up and get going. I hope to have them all engaged by the 20th of Dec game.


Do I have this premise correct:
Of the 3x(30) Helen research factories, when they are 100pct repaired and the data for the actual production is about a month away, I can switch the R&D from the first Helen to the next one up the chain and there will be no destroyed factories.
That means I will still have 3x(30).
I am curious if those factories will still be repaired or will the go from
Helen 30(0) (all repaired/none disabled)
to
Helen 0(30) (none repaired/all disabled)

If the remain repaired, then starting down the chain and working up is better than having 3 sets of factories, each researching one step up the chain at the same time.


(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 21
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 1:00:18 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Quick reply, the armored Helen isn't that great an improvement. By the time she comes around you will be bombing only in China most likely. They still die like flies if caught by Allied fighters.


(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 22
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 2:08:24 PM   
setloz

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/14/2013
From: Romania
Status: offline 		I wouldn't drop any points into the second Val (same small bomb load & shorter range) and instead go broke for the Judy.
Iirc D4Y3 has the Ha33 engine and that would make it easy to obtain the engine bonus without bothering with the Aichi Ha60.

Question: why bother with J1N1-C recon plane research? You could spend the 30x1100 supplies on something that would help your war effort: fighter or bomber/torpedo.
Or, the night fighter J1N1-S.

As Lowpe was saying, pick a few planes based on what they can help your war effort and research those very heavily to get them as early as possible.


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 23
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 3:01:25 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		I think I have already made a series of mistakes in trying to get something up and running -- even with my advice of taking it slow, I still fumbled.

The A6M3 is a land based Zero?
I recall a number of discussions about the Sembuka(sp?) version and avoiding a production trap.

Thanks setloz, I've got some head scratching to do.

(in reply to setloz)
Post #: 24
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 3:04:25 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		I am not clear about which planes are in which research lines. (ie: the A6M3)

I thought all Irving planes were in the same so that if I want the later Irving Night Fighter, if I research the earlier Recon version, I could switch fully repaired factories over to the next one and they would remain repaired.

Is that premise false?
thanks


< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/10/2015 4:05:32 PM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 25
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 3:18:04 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Dec 08, 1941 Combat Reports ---

Not so good results in Manilla:
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 33
G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 18
P-40E Warhawk x 48

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 7 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Runway hits 4
Looks like my opponent concentrated his fighters over one hex hoping I would come knocking (an early attempt at a Cap Trap?)
The AI never did that!


And a sweep over Rangoon I should have paid more attention to:
Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11

Allied aircraft
H81-A3 x 53

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed


In other headlines:
Japanese forces CAPTURE Laoag !!!
Japanese forces CAPTURE Makin !!!



< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/10/2015 4:18:44 PM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 26
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 4:08:40 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Yeah, a few messups but everyone does it. So far the cost to switch is minimal. I wouldn't waste any repairs on the C Irving for example.

Are all five of those A6M3 factories fully repaired? The formula is to create size 30 factories on an actual current production model, and then when it is fully repaired advance it to the next version, and so on down the line, one step at a time, until you get to the version you want early and viola your are r&d the A6M5c with five fully repaired factories in 30 days. With engine bonus that advances 1 month every 10 or so days.


There is a powerpoint document that illustrates the upgrade path somewhere on the forum. Very helpful. I have it on another computer, will try to get it put up here.

For now, I would focus on getting some factories to size 30 repaired for Oscar and Zero. Why? They are multigenerational planes and you can have all those producing factories (turn off production if you have enough plans, but let them repair) moved along to r&d future versions of the Zero and Oscar a great time savings.

I would look at expanding HA35 engines to get the r&d bonus...in Zeroes and Oscars. Just not go crazy.

I think the biggest focus is for you get your head around the fighters. Without fighters it doesn't matter what your bombers are like. If you can gain air superiority by focusing on a select few fighters (army, navy, cv) that will see you a long way.

My focus in this type of game would be to get an armored fighter for both Army and Navy fast. Most likely Oscar and Zero. I would also work very hard on George or Jack for the Navy (when they come on line you can trash Lightning sweeps). For the Army I would skip the Tony line all together and go for Frank a which upgrades to Frank r. Five size 30 factories on Frank a isn't going overboard.

Then I would pick an end war uber plane whether it is conventional engine, jet, rocket, or the Shinden. Chose an Army and Navy version.

NF come in two versions: pre-b29 and post b29. Irving s and Nick d are fine for the first group, you want something better for the b29 though. Nick d and Irving s and KAI Dinah to start; Myrt and Frances NF are worth looking at too for the end. The Irving s upgrades to the SA version with one more cannon and radar (when it activates) and is your first NF with radar even if it is god awful slow.

With what is left I would look at bombers/transports/floats/kamikazes. Grace would be at the top of my list, Judy because the Val really stinks.

Having played some I think r&d on this latter group is nice but not must have. I have even come to the conclusion that single engine bombers aren't that bad either, especially in China since they use less supply and still get the job done well enough and don't clutter airfields.

Did I mention I think fighters are the priority?



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/10/2015 5:09:23 PM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 27
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/10/2015 4:09:39 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Dan - you just gave us a new entry under "Famous Last Words"!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

The AI never did that!


_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 28
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/12/2015 4:51:49 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		R&D thoughts:

There are still many factories to commit to the mid-late war fighters and I plan on getting all of that in place by the 20th Dec, 1941 game turn.
Of the early/mid war planes, the Zero line is very important.
I have 5x(30) factories trying to repair the A6M3. These will mostly shift up to the next line in research all the way to the A6M8.
Also I have 1x(30) A6M2-N Rufe and another that will be expanded to x(30). Why? Because it looks like these factories could jump the A6M3x and start pushing the A6M5.

It looks like none of the night fighters are natural extensions of the air frame upgrades. I will be investing in a couple of mid/late war night fighters but will go more into that in a later post.

General Note and Plan Implication: Remember this is Realistic R&D OFF, so my plans will be different than what it would be with the restrictions ON. I can R&D a short plane line, let them go to production – switch the production factories into R&D (ie start researching SAM in mid 42) and the trade for the little bit of lost time then will be getting better planes in the air in the late 42/mid 43 battles.
That is my thought at this time. Comments and suggestions are very welcome.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 29
RE: Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemico12... - 2/12/2015 4:58:33 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Other lines currently set for research:

Fighters:

Already mentioned A6Mx line – all the way to the end.
5x(30) - A6M3.

3x(30) – N1K1-J George. I am going the George route – all the way to the end of the line. No special R&D in the Jack line but I still might build a few just for flavor. I will add more sets for George.

1x(30) – Ki-43-IIa Oscar. Probably will fall into production and an earlier Oscar line might go into R&D. I need to think more on how much I will need Oscar and how soon I can step up to the next plane.

1x(30) -- Ki-44-IIa Tojo. This is another of those – get a next line going and then swap it out with a production line retiring/switching to R&D. Still thinking this part of the plan through.

1x(30) – Ki-45 KAIa Nick. It has a bigger cannon. I might add another line before it is completed so I can bump one set of factories into getting the Ki-45 KAIc.

2x(30) – Ki-84a Frank. I will probably add at least one more x(30) set before the end of December and then even more as the early ’42 production lines reach the end of their work.



< Message edited by DanSez -- 2/12/2015 6:13:12 AM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 30
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