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funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 6:21:05 PM   
Triode

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 9/26/2014
Status: offline 		pictures taken from chanel "Zvezda" video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW2u3vEtqlE#t=2127
starting from 35.27 destroer "Leader" variant 2 ( aka project 23560 variant 2) and nuclear carrier







destroer "Leader" variant 2 :

9500/11500 tons ~ 190 meters in length, CODAG, ~ 30 knots

Artillery: 1x1x130

Air Defense: 3xCIWS(Pantsir), 80xRedut cells

Missiles: 48xUKSK cells

2x4Paket-NK torpedo tubes

hangar for 2 helicopters

it seems variant 2 lost 1 CIWS from his 2013 iteration
I wonder how now look like other variants of ships for this program from this post :
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3740062


anyway what people think about this ship,It is beautiful or terrible?

Post #: 1
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 6:34:15 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline 		That looks so top heavy it's comical.

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(in reply to Triode)
Post #: 2
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 6:39:49 PM   
Triode

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 9/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

That looks so top heavy it's comical.


Fuso,Nagato ...

(in reply to hellfish6)
Post #: 3
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 6:43:04 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Triode


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

That looks so top heavy it's comical.


Fuso,Nagato ...


Haha, this is worse, even if that massive enclosed mast is mostly hollow. Wouldn't wanna be on her in heavy seas.

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(in reply to Triode)
Post #: 4
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 7:02:33 PM   
Hongjian

 

Posts: 834
Joined: 1/2/2015
Status: offline 		Looks quite classical BB-styled warship. I kinda like its looks.

(in reply to hellfish6)
Post #: 5
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 7:30:00 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Its very tall that is for sure.

I think I agree with your original post with adding VLS fits to all ships and standardizing this across the fleet. My further thoughts are that salvo sizes are getting bigger all around so best to distribute power across many platforms rather than concentrating in one until better active defenses are constructed and proven.

Russian fleet is the most interesting in the world right now I think because nobody seems to have a clear vision of what it will be. However if you look at the platforms its clear it will not be second rate.

Mike

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Post #: 6
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/8/2015 9:51:24 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Its very tall that is for sure.

I think I agree with your original post with adding VLS fits to all ships and standardizing this across the fleet. My further thoughts are that salvo sizes are getting bigger all around so best to distribute power across many platforms rather than concentrating in one until better active defenses are constructed and proven.

Russian fleet is the most interesting in the world right now I think because nobody seems to have a clear vision of what it will be. However if you look at the platforms its clear it will not be second rate.

Mike


I have a scenario I've been working on since the CMNAO beta with all the new Russian platforms Ragnar would give me. Unfortunately, I screwed up when I was playing in the editor and saved over the baseline scenario and haven't quite re-jiggered it yet.

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Post #: 7
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/9/2015 1:45:14 AM   
NakedWeasel


Posts: 500
Joined: 1/14/2014
Status: offline 		I agree with the comment it looks top-heavy, or "mast-centric". I don't know if this design would have a lower RF cross section than previous ships, but given the direction that ASuW weapons are headed, I'd be concerned. Both the NSM and the LRASM seem to be equipped to seek and destroy with passive sensors and semi-autonomous AI, and may even be aided in the terminal attack by a man-in-the-loop. So, if I were to engage in naval combat with a future adversary, I'd probably prefer to do so in a vessel with a minimal silhouette such as a submarine, rather than a skyscraper bolted on to a metal canoe.

But that's just me...

_____________________________

Though surrounded by a great number of enemies
View them as a single foe
And so fight on!

(in reply to hellfish6)
Post #: 8
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/9/2015 1:59:56 AM   
NakedWeasel


Posts: 500
Joined: 1/14/2014
Status: offline 		To illustrate the point, this is the direction we are headed: http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Tomahawk_hits_moving_target_using_synthetic_guidance_999.html
Perhaps I might be guilty of over-simplification of the issue, but I'd prefer to hide beneath the waves, rather than towering above them.

_____________________________

Though surrounded by a great number of enemies
View them as a single foe
And so fight on!

(in reply to NakedWeasel)
Post #: 9
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/9/2015 1:33:25 PM   
Triode

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 9/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

I have a scenario I've been working on since the CMNAO beta with all the new Russian platforms Ragnar would give me. Unfortunately, I screwed up when I was playing in the editor and saved over the baseline scenario and haven't quite re-jiggered it yet.



I'm curious is this scenario something similar to this research scenarios that are played by Russian Navy?

something like that?

"PLAN

In the southern part of the Kuril Islands and east of the island of Hokkaido conducted joint US-Japan exercises with the main goal of landing on the island. Exercises are provocative. This year the political leadership openly declared Japan's territorial claims to "Northern land" native Japanese land in their opinion. In Japan launched a powerful propaganda campaign to return the Northern Territories with demonstrative burning Russian flag in front of the Russian Embassy. The United States supports the territorial claims of Japan. In support of this campaign, Japan decided to "flex its muscles" and conduct exercises for Navy landing on the island. US could not stay away from the action and expressed solidarity with the Japanese military and naval forces contributed to participate in the exercises. Russian leaders were not indifferent to this show of force and fear that a provocation grow into actual action to seize the South Kuril Islands, plan to conduct in this part of the Pacific Ocean its exercises on the protection of sea communications, covertly to undertake activities to bring the Armed Forces in BG "Red"
Forces(virtual and actual) attracted to the exercises:
1. From naval base Kamchatka
- Patrol ships, pr. 22350 - 3 units, 20380 - 2 units, 11540 - 2 units
- SSN, pr. 949A-2 units, submarines, pr. 885 - 2 units
- PL pr. 877- 3 units
2. From naval base Sakhalin
- Patrol ships, pr. 20380 - 4 units
- RSA, pr. 12411 - 6 units
3. From the PrFR Fokino
- TARKR 11442 - 1 unit
- RKR pr. 1164 - 1 unit
-EM pr. 956 - 2 units
-BPK pr. 1155 - 4 units
- PL , pr.667 - 2 units
Aviation A-50U, Su-35BM, T-50, Tu-22M and Tu-160
The actual composition of the Japanese Navy
1. EM-B Hyuga - 2 units
2. EM URO Atago - 3 units
3. EM Takane - 3 units
4. PL Soryu - 2 units
5. PL Oyashio t - 2 units
6. RCA Hayabusa - 4 units
7. Aviation on the types and number of staff to ensure DESO
The actual composition of the US Navy
1.AVU CVN-76 "R.Reagan"
2. KR URO Tikanderoga -2 units
3. EM URO Arleigh Burke t - 4 units
4. PLA Ohio - 2 units
5. UDC Tarawa - 2 units
6. DVKD Austin 2 units
Aviation from AVU and ships

Suggest to:
- Form KPUGs build 3 echelon DESO for enemy
- Put forces tasks, organize interaction
- make the analysis and evaluate for both sides
- Determine the levels and extent of threats to both sides
- Make the calculation of forces and means to solve the problem"


quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel

I agree with the comment it looks top-heavy, or "mast-centric". I don't know if this design would have a lower RF cross section than previous ships, but given the direction that ASuW weapons are headed, I'd be concerned. Both the NSM and the LRASM seem to be equipped to seek and destroy with passive sensors and semi-autonomous AI, and may even be aided in the terminal attack by a man-in-the-loop. So, if I were to engage in naval combat with a future adversary, I'd probably prefer to do so in a vessel with a minimal silhouette such as a submarine, rather than a skyscraper bolted on to a metal canoe.

But that's just me...


Passive sensor actualy not an advantage but disadvantage for low altitude flying missiles

"Skyscraper" thing is logically follows from threats Russian Navy faced
Main threat for Russian Navy is subsonic low altitude flying missiles, so radars must be as high as possible to give
more range of detection and more time for reaction.
So,this threat dictates appearance of Russian Navy ships







< Message edited by Triode -- 2/9/2015 2:40:56 PM >

(in reply to NakedWeasel)
Post #: 10
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/9/2015 4:17:57 PM   
NakedWeasel


Posts: 500
Joined: 1/14/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Triod


quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel

I agree with the comment it looks top-heavy, or "mast-centric". I don't know if this design would have a lower RF cross section than previous ships, but given the direction that ASuW weapons are headed, I'd be concerned. Both the NSM and the LRASM seem to be equipped to seek and destroy with passive sensors and semi-autonomous AI, and may even be aided in the terminal attack by a man-in-the-loop. So, if I were to engage in naval combat with a future adversary, I'd probably prefer to do so in a vessel with a minimal silhouette such as a submarine, rather than a skyscraper bolted on to a metal canoe.

But that's just me...


Passive sensor actualy not an advantage but disadvantage for low altitude flying missiles

"Skyscraper" thing is logically follows from threats Russian Navy faced
Main threat for Russian Navy is subsonic low altitude flying missiles, so radars must be as high as possible to give
more range of detection and more time for reaction.
So,this threat dictates appearance of Russian Navy ships



Respectfully, I'd have to disagree with you on the whole low altitude passive sensor thing. Modern and future designs are low-flying weapons with passive sensors. There's already a ton of money spent on this technology and some very brilliant minds who seem to think it will work. Maybe you are one of the brilliant minds who say otherwise, but I'm willing to take the chance that our guys are right.


_____________________________

Though surrounded by a great number of enemies
View them as a single foe
And so fight on!

(in reply to Triode)
Post #: 11
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/9/2015 4:19:40 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Triode

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

I have a scenario I've been working on since the CMNAO beta with all the new Russian platforms Ragnar would give me. Unfortunately, I screwed up when I was playing in the editor and saved over the baseline scenario and haven't quite re-jiggered it yet.



I'm curious is this scenario something similar to this research scenarios that are played by Russian Navy?

something like that?



It's set in the Black Sea and is basically a redux of the Georgian War in 2008. I call Georgia "GAMMA" and give them some ex-Israeli PGGs and a couple of old submarines to fictionalize it. Nothing like fighting the US or other strong navy. Just regional power projection.

_____________________________


(in reply to Triode)
Post #: 12
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/10/2015 4:52:07 AM   
NakedWeasel


Posts: 500
Joined: 1/14/2014
Status: offline 		And once more, here's a video of a active/passively-guided TACTOM striking a moving naval target at sea: http://youtu.be/Jgv5ixxgTsQ ...which is really dramatic, despite the lack of the 1000lb warhead. So if you want to build a sea going castle, you may want to make sure it's got an amazing array of hard and soft defenses to counter everything the west can throw at it in the years to come.

_____________________________

Though surrounded by a great number of enemies
View them as a single foe
And so fight on!

(in reply to hellfish6)
Post #: 13
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/10/2015 3:18:42 PM   
AlmightyTallest

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/25/2014
Status: offline 		Nice video NakedWeasel, and by comparison that Tactcom is a pig compared to the NSM video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMowaZ3I90o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaSPvWiqgeM

Two links above are interesting, in one the missile is doing a dive onto the target ship, in the other it wave heights straight into the hull, but the exercise had used ROK Harpoon missiles it claims. This is similar to the Harpoon terminal modes.



U.S. test firing of the NSM from an LCS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuMU-lc8DZw

Physically small, very low height above water, no smoke, little signature, and passive thermal detection of the target.

< Message edited by AlmightyTallest -- 2/10/2015 4:28:54 PM >

(in reply to NakedWeasel)
Post #: 14
RE: funny pictures from "Krylov" institute - 2/13/2015 6:53:31 PM   
DirtyFred


Posts: 99
Joined: 5/22/2014
Status: offline 		i do not believe this top-heavy design will be the end result...

here is one mockup of the russian "leader" class destroyer:



quote:

Russia’s new future destroyer will enter the design stages in 2015. The lead ship, the chief military purpose of which is to establish supremacy on the open sea, will become operative no sooner than 2025. It is presumed that the destroyer will be equipped with the Caliber cruise missile system and the Prometheus ZRK (anti-aircraft surface-to-air missile system).

The decision to change the date for the creation of ‘Leader’-type destroyers to 2023-2025 was completely justified,” the independent military and naval expert Alexander Mozgovoi explained to RBTH.

"First of all, the Russian shipbuilding industry simply cannot build such ships at the moment. Secondly, immense sums of money are needed to implement the program, but this money can currently be put to great use in other areas. Thirdly, some of the armaments systems meant for the ‘Leaders’ simply do not exist yet. They only exist on paper."






_____________________________

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to AlmightyTallest)
Post #: 15
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