Should I bother?

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Should I bother? - 2/14/2015 10:47:10 PM

RichMunn

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/14/2008
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I know, having read Matrix Forums with interest over the last couple of years and never posted, that to ask this is probably a mistake.

I have been terrified with the ease with which posters have discussed and dismissed such things as supply ( a boring quartermaster's problem to me)

and simpler matters such as range, load, ...oh, and I don't know what else.

And yet - I do enjoy a bit of detail. Company of Heroes, for all its extravagance, seems a little bit cheap. Rome 2, Total War, is complicated but perhaps not complex. I should add that I am no good at these games, but dabble with them frequently.

I am entranced by the idea of Gary Grigsby's War in the West. I almost feel that I should own it just to know that I can never understand or even like it.

I did own The Operational Art of War, and was enjoying it when I bothered to try to learn it, but somehow like many games it was superseded by something else.

So please help me, grognards or other normal people -

Is there any point in me buying WITW just to find after a few hours that it's too much for me? Or will I enjoy those few hours so much that it is worth the rather extravagant asking price?

Thanks for your consideration.

Post #: 1

RE: Should I bother? - 2/14/2015 10:57:00 PM

NotOneStepBack

Posts: 915
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline

It's worth it. If you can understand TOAW (which is great btw), this is the next level up. If you put in the time, it is worth it.

(in reply to RichMunn)

Post #: 2

RE: Should I bother? - 2/14/2015 11:30:17 PM

Kumppi

Posts: 209
Joined: 10/21/2008
From: Somewhere between Sweden and Russia
Status: offline

It seems you really want to have a go at this game. I guess the question then is. Is it better to buy the game just to get that peace of mind even if it is not your cup of tea or anguish in a state of uncertainty like you do now.

There is no demo which would be a perfect fit for you and it's impossible to say if you will like the game enough to justify it's price.

Are you rich? If so. Buy it.
Do you want to try the best computer war game (in my opinion) of the western front of WWII? If so. Buy it.

But don't blame me if it's not for you

(in reply to NotOneStepBack)

Post #: 3

RE: Should I bother? - 2/15/2015 1:19:22 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichMunn

I know, having read Matrix Forums with interest over the last couple of years and never posted, that to ask this is probably a mistake.

I have been terrified with the ease with which posters have discussed and dismissed such things as supply ( a boring quartermaster's problem to me)

and simpler matters such as range, load, ...oh, and I don't know what else.

And yet - I do enjoy a bit of detail. Company of Heroes, for all its extravagance, seems a little bit cheap. Rome 2, Total War, is complicated but perhaps not complex. I should add that I am no good at these games, but dabble with them frequently.

I am entranced by the idea of Gary Grigsby's War in the West. I almost feel that I should own it just to know that I can never understand or even like it.

I did own The Operational Art of War, and was enjoying it when I bothered to try to learn it, but somehow like many games it was superseded by something else.

So please help me, grognards or other normal people -

Is there any point in me buying WITW just to find after a few hours that it's too much for me? Or will I enjoy those few hours so much that it is worth the rather extravagant asking price?

Thanks for your consideration.

Dispect all the posts you will spend 100"s if not 1000"s of hrs playing the AI, which is hands down the best of any game to date other then WitE.

If your a gamer or history geek like me I would buy both.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4

RE: Should I bother? - 2/15/2015 7:45:02 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichMunn

I know, having read Matrix Forums with interest over the last couple of years and never posted, that to ask this is probably a mistake.

I have been terrified with the ease with which posters have discussed and dismissed such things as supply ( a boring quartermaster's problem to me)

and simpler matters such as range, load, ...oh, and I don't know what else.

And yet - I do enjoy a bit of detail. Company of Heroes, for all its extravagance, seems a little bit cheap. Rome 2, Total War, is complicated but perhaps not complex. I should add that I am no good at these games, but dabble with them frequently.

I am entranced by the idea of Gary Grigsby's War in the West. I almost feel that I should own it just to know that I can never understand or even like it.

I did own The Operational Art of War, and was enjoying it when I bothered to try to learn it, but somehow like many games it was superseded by something else.

So please help me, grognards or other normal people -

Is there any point in me buying WITW just to find after a few hours that it's too much for me? Or will I enjoy those few hours so much that it is worth the rather extravagant asking price?

Thanks for your consideration.

one strength of the game design is you can add complexity, esp for the air game.

At one level there is a button to let the AI handle the air war. It'll do a pretty decent job for you, esp in a game vs the AI.

You can then set up the air priorities say tell US 8 Air to concentrate on U-boats and Tac Air in the Med to go after the Luftwaffe, and the AI will turn those into actual missions and execute it for you

You can then start playing around with and amending these missions

You can then start setting up your own missions each with its specific priorities and targets and amend the routes etc

The next stage is to start fussing over start points, payload (for Bomber Command you can even allocate HE to some squadrons and incendiaries to others), bombing altitude etc etc.

If you like detail the last is fun, but its not a precondition for playing the game and having fun. Also use the scenarios, Husky is good as a self-contained starter. Breakout and Pursuit will teach you an awful lot about how to manage tactical airwar - you need to get this right or the Allies will make no real progress.

As above, in terms of �/hr of play/fun, this has already delivered as far as I'm concerned

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RE: Should I bother? - 2/15/2015 9:28:41 AM

ParaB

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
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You will need to overcome a pretty steep steep learning curve. You need to actually learn the game and invest quite a few hours until you can really enjoy it.

On the plus side, in addition to the manual there's a nifty player's handbook that serves as a quickstart guide and there's a number of very helpful tutorial vids. And there's always a very helpful and friendly forum. So, while getting into the game can certainly be a challenge it's not too frustrating IMO.

If you can overcome these initial hurdles you'll be rewarded with an amazing wargame that can easily keep you entertained for hundreds of hours.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 6

RE: Should I bother? - 2/15/2015 10:47:50 AM

HMSWarspite

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

You can play the game at various levels - dont let the debates about finer points put you off. Against the AI on challenging you dont need to manage allocation of planes to raids, or loadouts. You dont even need to really do the air war at all on the easy levels of AI. But it has to be said the game is a monster, be under no illusions. It is great fun if you like that sort of thing (as I do!)

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Post #: 7

RE: Should I bother? - 2/15/2015 4:42:16 PM

RichMunn

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline

I'm very grateful and very impressed with the friendly responses on here, and I am a step nearer to making a decision!

Thanks to all.

(in reply to HMSWarspite)

Post #: 8

RE: Should I bother? - 2/19/2015 4:16:54 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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I'd say you where jumping right into the deep end as far as wargames go. I love the sound of the game and all it's detail..however actually learning and playing it is another matter altogether. I admire those who do get to grips with it as I expect it's an amazing experience, I just don't have the patience.

You also need to think about scale. Does this scale appeal or do your prefer something more tactical? The larger the scale the harder it can be when it comes to immersion. However I'd say this game and the Decisive Campaign games do very well on the immersion front considering the scale. The latest DC game in development "DC3" looks like it will have many unique features and ooze immersion.

I'd say look for something a touch less complex esp if coming from games like COH or Total War. This sort of game is at the other end of the scale. Maybe check out something like Decisive Campaigns Case Blue or one of the SSG games and if you enjoy them and fancy something alot more involved then look at GGWITW.

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Post #: 9

RE: Should I bother? - 2/19/2015 6:16:30 PM

Aurelian

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Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichMunn

I'm very grateful and very impressed with the friendly responses on here, and I am a step nearer to making a decision!

Thanks to all.

Read the various AARs. Watch the tutorial videos. If you like video AARs, give this one a look. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3783410

I'm not a West/Med front kind of guy, but I'm having a blast.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 2/19/2015 7:19:12 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Should I bother? - 2/19/2015 10:43:55 PM

jwarrenw13

Posts: 1897
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From: Louisiana, USA
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I would say bother. To reinforce what the others are saying, the game is like an onion. It has many layers. I am enjoying it greatly even though I have peeled off just the topmost layers.

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Post #: 11

RE: Should I bother? - 2/20/2015 2:27:15 AM

LiquidSky

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Joined: 6/24/2008
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I bought the game at xmas, and spent my vacation time just learning mechanics.

I then spent the month of January practicing how to attack....how to fly my planes...how to use both together to achieve a goal.

As the allies, the game offers a lot of thinking. You have to plan an operation. You cannot really throw your counters around just because they have a movement factor.

The Germans have teeth..just not enough mouth. (ewwww) You gotta know when to bite, or when to nibble...or to lick your wounds.

This game more then any other I have played has engaged me fully. However the turns are not that long to do. The air planning phase usually takes the longest....and it has an AI so you can let that do your thinking for you. But to me, its the best part of the game.

The ground war is fairly quick. Probably took me 30min to an hour at most to do a turn. The rules are fairly simple. The interface a bit odd, but if you played WiTE its the same. If not, it will be aggravating for about an hour, then you will get the hang of it, and then you wont even think about it..just move pieces.

I highly enjoy this game....and I detest WiTE so that says something.

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Post #: 12

RE: Should I bother? - 2/23/2015 9:22:10 PM

RichMunn

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Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline

Spplloshh!

In at the deep end.........

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 13

RE: Should I bother? - 2/23/2015 10:15:21 PM

HMSWarspite

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Take it gently. Do a small sceanrio, re-read the relevant rules and do it again. Whenever something happens you dont understand, note it and look it up. Even when you get on to the larger scenarios, don't try and do it all at once.

Oh, and have fun!

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Post #: 14