Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 12:07:19 AM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
I noted that US dauntless kills amphibious TFs everywhere, its possible merge amphibious TF to Air Combat TF under a sort of air umbrella of Zero aircrafts ?
Post #: 1
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 12:31:26 AM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
You can provide CAP for your amph units via your carriers. They don't have to be in the same TF or even in the same hex, and probably shouldn't be. You can set some or all of the carrier Zeros squadrons to LRCAP and then set the range for what you need to cover the critical landing site.

(in reply to archita)
Post #: 2
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 6:44:04 AM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
Its possibile set cap corridors to cover travel of amp Tf until landing destination ? In coral sea scenario the air combat and amp tfs are scattered, the allied AI first turn attack amp tfs with 20 more dauntless wave, the shogo air combat has not enough zeros against US air rush of first turn. It seems impossible to avoid heavy losses of amp tfs.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 3
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 7:38:11 AM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: archita

Its possibile set cap corridors to cover travel of amp Tf until landing destination ? In coral sea scenario the air combat and amp tfs are scattered, the allied AI first turn attack amp tfs with 20 more dauntless wave, the shogo air combat has not enough zeros against US air rush of first turn. It seems impossible to avoid heavy losses of amp tfs.

You can utilize all your figther forces in range (IJArmy & IJNavy, land & naval based) to cover the AmphTF for his trip simply using LRCAP mission and then selecting the TF as mission target.


(in reply to archita)
Post #: 4
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 8:40:52 AM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
Tnx you ! A other little question, an air combat tf can defend amphibious tf with escort mode task force + lrcap and follow route ? the DD in task force perform automatic Asw protection for escort tf and escorted tf ?

< Message edited by archita -- 2/22/2015 10:03:30 AM >

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 5
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 12:10:29 PM   
alimentary

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: archita
A other little question, an air combat tf can defend amphibious tf with escort mode task force + lrcap and follow route ? the DD in task force perform automatic Asw protection for escort tf and escorted tf ?


There is no such thing as an "escort mode" task force in the sense I think you mean. Designating a task force as "escort" has no in-game effect of making this TF good for escorting. Instead, it allows the TF to contain any class of ship. That is the primary purpose of the designation. Such TF's are intended for use in moving ships of dissimilar classes from one place to another. In the words of the manual:

" » Escort. These are general purpose “ship movement” TFs. They are used to evacuate damaged ships from the battle area, and to move ships between bases. They cannot load or unload, or perform any other function, and will flee all enemy forces. They may include any type of surface ship, including those too badly damaged to fight. Maximum TF size is 100 ships."

The penalty you pay for using an escort TF is that the TF runs away from anything (which makes it a rather poor "escort") and that it cannot do anything (can't launch air strikes, can't load or unload). I've never tested whether they can operate CAP or LRCAP. A TF of type escort that contains at least one carrier and contains no ships ineligible for forming an Air Combat TF will automatically convert to an Air Combat TF.

Actually... [and this is clearly an abuse of the game engine] I just now loaded up scenario 1, went to San Diego and created an Air Combat TF. I redesignated it as "escort" and (without leaving the TF page) transferred in an AVD and an AO. It still shows as an Air Combat TF even though it contains ineligible ships. This stupid pet trick does not allow amphibious transports containing loaded passengers to be added to an air combat TF, however.

(in reply to archita)
Post #: 6
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 3:51:47 PM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
A question, fort level of Moresby is 0, quality of JP troops is superior, moral 80. The garrisons of Moresby must have low moral ( - ), low preparation and experience. The bonus is terrain only.

assault value is 124, defense value 71

the odd is "1" but the odd result can cause so heavy casualties ?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to alimentary)
Post #: 7
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 4:02:21 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
In WITP:AE, you need to think about losses in terms of "destroyed" squads - these squads are lost for good. "Disabled" squads are a non-issue - they can repair later on and fight again.

In this battle, losses were light.

BTW, I would dig up the TOE of the 30th Australian Brigade in Tracker. Chance is, the brigade has some nasty field guns (25-pounders?) that hit you twice during your shock attack, while your 144th regiment uses some light 75mm guns, whose stats are equal to Chinese 81mm mortars.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 2/22/2015 5:06:09 PM >

(in reply to archita)
Post #: 8
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 4:24:53 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Yeah, devices matter but in this case terrain is probably the factor. You will need to soften the defenders with air attacks. This will disrupt them and lower their AV. If you have the ships to spare a surface bombardment right before an attack helps as well.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 9
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 4:39:03 PM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
how many moral and experience affects the combat result ? when a defending unit decide to surrender ?

a question, what means "x10+" ?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 10
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 5:04:18 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
See if you can kill squads with artillery bombardment. Both sides are spent right now.

(in reply to archita)
Post #: 11
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 5:41:39 PM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
final rush with naval bombardment and air attack

victory to last turn of scenario!!

the result is DRAW because I lost the CV Shokaku and Zuikaku heavily damaged by stubborn dauntless waves, I noted that Shoko has been ignored for all game, all main waves were against Shokaku TF. Off course a Human allied player deploy more effort to annihilate the 7th amph TF that is main objective of scenario.

I will replaty the scenario like training again, its very nice scenario for balance and lenght :)




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 12
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 8:18:12 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: archita
A other little question, an air combat tf can defend amphibious tf with escort mode task force + lrcap and follow route ? the DD in task force perform automatic Asw protection for escort tf and escorted tf ?


quote:

ORIGINAL: alimentary
There is no such thing as an "escort mode" task force in the sense I think you mean. Designating a task force as "escort" has no in-game effect of making this TF good for escorting. Instead, it allows the TF to contain any class of ship. That is the primary purpose of the designation. Such TF's are intended for use in moving ships of dissimilar classes from one place to another. In the words of the manual:

" » Escort. These are general purpose “ship movement” TFs. They are used to evacuate damaged ships from the battle area, and to move ships between bases. They cannot load or unload, or perform any other function, and will flee all enemy forces. They may include any type of surface ship, including those too badly damaged to fight. Maximum TF size is 100 ships."

The penalty you pay for using an escort TF is that the TF runs away from anything (which makes it a rather poor "escort") and that it cannot do anything (can't launch air strikes, can't load or unload). I've never tested whether they can operate CAP or LRCAP. A TF of type escort that contains at least one carrier and contains no ships ineligible for forming an Air Combat TF will automatically convert to an Air Combat TF.

Actually... [and this is clearly an abuse of the game engine] I just now loaded up scenario 1, went to San Diego and created an Air Combat TF. I redesignated it as "escort" and (without leaving the TF page) transferred in an AVD and an AO. It still shows as an Air Combat TF even though it contains ineligible ships. This stupid pet trick does not allow amphibious transports containing loaded passengers to be added to an air combat TF, however.



He may have been asking about Carrier Escort TFs, which operate much the same way as regular Carrier TFs, but with a couple of differences:

1) The only carrier you can put in these is a CVE

2) They can operate in coastal hexes without penalties

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to alimentary)
Post #: 13
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 9:53:21 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

a question, what means "x10+" ?


The 'x10' means there are 10 of that device in the unit. The '+' means the unit is not at full strength and devices are available in the replacement pool.

quote:

They can operate in coastal hexes without penalties


Bill, I've seen this bandied about in several threads here in the forum, yes/no ad nauseam. I've searched for a definitive answer and not found anything in the manual that indicated this, and as of the last discussion I had on this subject I kinda decided it was just 'forum lore'. I haven't had empirical results that allow me to say one way or the other either, although I did try. Now this doesn't make me right, just confused. Can anyone please put this to rest one way or the other?


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 14
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/22/2015 10:56:05 PM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
Can I ask if there are conditions to achieve the surrender of enemy units instead retreat ? the vehicles and guns of enemy LCUs can be captured and used ? If I occupy an harbour exe, the enemy ships in dock can be captured ? when an airfield is gained, there is chance to capture planes ?

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 15
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/23/2015 1:47:47 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

the vehicles and guns of enemy LCUs can be captured and used ? If I occupy an harbour exe, the enemy ships in dock can be captured ? when an airfield is gained, there is chance to capture planes ?


No, no, and no.

quote:

Can I ask if there are conditions to achieve the surrender of enemy units instead retreat ?


Keep in mind this is from the Japanese side, as that's all I've played thus far. Unless an enemy is surrounded he will generally retreat as long as there's a base in the area for him to fall back on, and my experience is its a very big area. If the unit is surrounded it will generally fight to the death, unless in a base and you can get what is needed to capture the base. If the unit is badly reduced it can be destroyed.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to archita)
Post #: 16
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/23/2015 9:38:27 AM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

the vehicles and guns of enemy LCUs can be captured and used ? If I occupy an harbour exe, the enemy ships in dock can be captured ? when an airfield is gained, there is chance to capture planes ?


No, no, and no.

quote:

Can I ask if there are conditions to achieve the surrender of enemy units instead retreat ?


Keep in mind this is from the Japanese side, as that's all I've played thus far. Unless an enemy is surrounded he will generally retreat as long as there's a base in the area for him to fall back on, and my experience is its a very big area. If the unit is surrounded it will generally fight to the death, unless in a base and you can get what is needed to capture the base. If the unit is badly reduced it can be destroyed.


I suppose a limit of engine because axis used captured vehicles and guns ( especially germans ), planes and ships leave captured exe automatically ( to random basis ? ) or considered destroyed ?

the absence of surrender condition seems antihistorical, a good example is Singapore. I think that a low moral must be a key factor for surrender ( my opinion ).

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/23/2015 10:58:52 AM   
alimentary

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Unless an enemy is surrounded he will generally retreat as long as there's a base in the area for him to fall back on, and my experience is its a very big area.

Yes. The unit can only retreat on a valid movement path. From a hex containing enemy units, the only valid movement paths are those leading to friendly bases without traversing any uncontested enemy-occupied hexes. In addition, hex-side ownership rules can prevent the use of some hex sides for this purpose. If an enemy unit was the last to traverse a hex-side into the combat hex then that hex-side becomes enemy-owned and is unavailable for movement or retreat by friendly forces.

Japanese units will often fight to the death. Allied units are far more prone to surrender and sometimes even do so when a valid retreat path is available.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 18
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/23/2015 2:10:39 PM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline
Its possible simulate something like the surrender of whole garrison force of Singapore? If enemy allied LCUs have dropped morale ( under 30-40 ) a surrender chance event can be a feature to avoid prolonged fight until death that can be unrealistic. Many wargames consider morale a key feature of victory and Japanese player can't waste time to wipe out garrison forces that decide rugged defence no matter if experience and morale are twice inferior. Off course surrender is no choice for jp LCUs.

< Message edited by archita -- 2/23/2015 3:13:27 PM >

(in reply to alimentary)
Post #: 19
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/23/2015 2:38:28 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
Instead of continuously, both in this thread and other threads, bringing in your own assumptions and asking for explanations of how to get them to work in this game, why don't you just try to read the manual and the considerable in game information which is provided.

This game is not going  to be altered to meet your own expectations.

Alfred

(in reply to archita)
Post #: 20
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/23/2015 3:42:58 PM   
archita

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Instead of continuously, both in this thread and other threads, bringing in your own assumptions and asking for explanations of how to get them to work in this game, why don't you just try to read the manual and the considerable in game information which is provided.

This game is not going  to be altered to meet your own expectations.

Alfred


you are impolite really. Assumptions and requests of explanations are welcome in forum, by all players. I never asked to modify game itself. good or bad Comments on game mechanics are not forbidden.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 21
RE: newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side - 2/24/2015 1:48:10 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline
Archita, don't be offended, Alfred is just being Alfred, his is direct and at times a little to blunt. Most of us have learned to live with it!!!

But what he is saying is important. Many of your questions can be answered by reading the manual carefully AND then going into scenarios like Coral Sea and testing for answers to questions yourself. Additionally you can "search" for existing answers in this forum, although by most accounts (mine included) the search "engine" is not very effective (but it IS worth a try). After all of the above is tried, then do we normally come to the forum and ask. This way, the forum is not over taxed and it can be more responsive. This is a great game, and once you get some time in on it, your own actions will answer most of your questions. Welcome aboard. Hal

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 2/24/2015 2:49:04 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to archita)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> newbie Coral Sea experience japanese side Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.391