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Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 5:59:17 AM

Falkon1313

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Joined: 3/22/2009
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I'm looking for recommendations for a turn-based strategic (or possibly operational) naval wargame. I'm particularly interested in WWII Pacific theater (currently reading The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945), although not ruling out other periods/areas. I like Harpoon for cold war/modern, but I'm looking for something turn-based. When I was younger, I liked board games like Advanced Third Reich and Sixth Fleet (still have them both on my shelf). Currently, I've been enjoying Advanced Tactics Gold and Strategic Command - European Theater. I'm looking for a historical Pacific game with complexity roughly equivalent to those. I do like PBeM, but do most of my gaming vs AI or solitaire.

Games that I'm currently considering:

- War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition
My impression is that this will be too much detail for me now. I've played and enjoyed grognard games in the past (including Pacific War, which WITP appears to be the successor to), but it's been awhile. I'm looking for something more playable/manageable. I don't know how much the new interface and manual may help. I think this is probably one that I'll have to work my way back up to.

- War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930
This looks to me like it would be a good stepping stone to WITP. Full Pacific strategic war, but slightly less complexity. Also a very intriguing setting, being mostly pre-carrier. I find the idea fascinating. On the other hand, it's based on WITP, so likely still very complex and detailed with lengthy turns.

- Uncommon Valor
This appears to be a smaller predecessor to WITP. From what I can tell by the description, it has a similar level of detail, but may be more manageable due to being smaller? Is it superceded by WITP, or does it stand on its own because the scenarios are more specific?

- War Plan Pacific (Shrapnel Games)
This looks significantly lighter, more like the complexity/understandability of a boardgame. Possibly the best place for me to start, but may not be enough to sate my interest in the long run.

Should I work my way up through these from the bottom (skip any)? Are there some that I've missed that would be good intermediate steps? It seems like almost everything is either at the Pacific War supercomplex level or a tactical/action game. If there's a middle ground, I've overlooked it.

Thanks!

Post #: 1

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 6:43:51 AM

Budge4

Posts: 77
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Coventry, England
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Hi Falcon

Cant help you very much with the Naval Games but did notice one not on your list, Carriers at War, description says its an intermediate,operational turn based game.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/337/details/Carriers.at.War

Im sure people in this Forum more knowledgeable than me will help you.

(in reply to Falkon1313)

Post #: 2

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 10:41:37 AM

Gilmer

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That's a good book, but I have a goofball stalker on another forum that claims it is bad without even having read it.

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RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 12:29:07 PM

Trugrit

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From: North Carolina
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Bite the bullet and get War in the Pacific Admirals Edition. It is Queen of the Pacific.
Play the small scenarios against the AI.

If you can play Harpoon you can play WITPAE.

A very great man once said:
The only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

(in reply to Falkon1313)

Post #: 4

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 12:30:11 PM

Nimrod 9th

Posts: 140
Joined: 9/28/2012
From: Central MO
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War Plan Pacific is very light. But I enjoy it. The entire Pacific war in 2 hours. But be warned. It focuses completely on naval. The land warfare is very very limited and not the purpose of the game. This is a "game." Not a historical simulation. So it does have a few small game balances you may find strange. Just keep in mind this is meant to be a "game" not a historical reinactment. AI is fair but after you played it awhile you can develop some strategies the AI will struggle against. Japan is much more challenging than US. When the game first came out I played it a lot and enjoyed it. But I went in with my eyes open knowing what I was getting. Their forum has lots of bad comments about the game from people wanting a true historical simulation. That's not the purpose of the "game." But if you want an entertaining fast simple carrier "game" this game has merits.

It's been years (if not decades) since I've played Carriers at War. Back in the day, I played and played and played it. Loved it. Again, know what you're getting into. Dated graphics. Limited to no land warfare. Lots of "fog of war." Limited number of scenarios (back in the day it had lots and lots). Game editor that's a little awkward but useable. Etc. If Matrix would update this game with all the old scenarios and do some minor fine tuning to update game engine, I'd be first in line to re-buy it.

Can't help with the others.

(in reply to Gilmer)

Post #: 5

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 12:41:05 PM

Zorch

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nimrod 9th

War Plan Pacific is very light. But I enjoy it. The entire Pacific war in 2 hours. But be warned. It focuses completely on naval. The land warfare is very very limited and not the purpose of the game. This is a "game." Not a historical simulation. So it does have a few small game balances you may find strange. Just keep in mind this is meant to be a "game" not a historical reinactment. AI is fair but after you played it awhile you can develop some strategies the AI will struggle against. Japan is much more challenging than US. When the game first came out I played it a lot and enjoyed it. But I went in with my eyes open knowing what I was getting. Their forum has lots of bad comments about the game from people wanting a true historical simulation. That's not the purpose of the "game." But if you want an entertaining fast simple carrier "game" this game has merits.

It's been years (if not decades) since I've played Carriers at War. Back in the day, I played and played and played it. Loved it. Again, know what you're getting into. Dated graphics. Limited to no land warfare. Lots of "fog of war." Limited number of scenarios (back in the day it had lots and lots). Game editor that's a little awkward but useable. Etc. If Matrix would update this game with all the old scenarios and do some minor fine tuning to update game engine, I'd be first in line to re-buy it.

Can't help with the others.

+1 regarding Carriers At War.

(in reply to Nimrod 9th)

Post #: 6

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 2:14:29 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkon

- Uncommon Valor
This appears to be a smaller predecessor to WITP. From what I can tell by the description, it has a similar level of detail, but may be more manageable due to being smaller? Is it superceded by WITP, or does it stand on its own because the scenarios are more specific?

I started with UV (back in 2002 or 2003 IIRC, PBEMs and vs AI). It stands on its own. It covers the New Guinea and Solomon campaigns. You can play the whole campaign or small scenarios. Much much more manageable. You can easily play one month (game) in one afternoon. But of course some features are lacking. You cannot set a radius for your planes therefore your Betties (if Japanese) could very well be slaughtered (Zeroes can't escort them IF they attack a target way too far). No ship repairs either.

Overall, a great game, WitP ancestor.

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RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 3:37:18 PM

rickier65

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You might want to also check out Storm Over the Pacific: http://www.matrixgames.com/products/381/details/Storm.over.the.Pacific

Rick

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)

Post #: 8

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 3:48:52 PM

wesy

Posts: 224
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Berkeley, CA
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+1 on WITPAE. Agreed it's a BIG game, but I learn a little bit everyday...

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RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/5/2015 7:24:28 PM

Capt. Harlock

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You might also want to have a look at Pacific War. It's turn-based (one-week turns) and the price is right: a free download from Matrix.

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RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/6/2015 1:31:17 AM

Missouri_Rebel

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From: Southern Missouri
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The only thing you have to fear is logistics.

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RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/6/2015 1:53:39 AM

aaatoysandmore

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Joined: 9/11/2013
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MIDWAY by HPS. Not sure if it's operational though or more tactical strategic. WARSHIPS by SSI many moons ago was a pretty good tactical level naval game. When it comes to ships never really liked moving task forces as much as I did individual ships and subs. Grandest Fleet by QQP was good for that too. Really good tactical naval game.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 12

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/6/2015 2:11:02 AM

rhondabrwn

Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
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+1 for Witp:AE

If you are on the fence, read the first couple of weeks of this AAR by Grey Hunter on "Let's Play"

http://lparchive.org/War-in-the-Pacific/

What is different is that he pretty much lets many screen shots tell the story along with his explanatory comments that include explanations about how the game is played. In other words, it is very much like actually playing the game. I just finished reading the entire thing (almost 1500 posts and game turns). Learned a lot and am very enthused about the game... really enthused... despite having owned WiTP for years.

So, this is an easy way to quickly and easily get a feel for whether this entire game series is for you (Uncommon Valor, Warplan Orange, Witp, and Witp:AE). I would just jump to Witp:AE if I were you (plus maybe War Plan Orange too). Uncommon Valor hasn't been updated over the years so I'd skip it and play scenarios in Witp:AE for that period of the war.

Hope this helps with your decision.

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RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/6/2015 2:46:42 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
Bite the bullet and get War in the Pacific Admirals Edition. It is Queen of the Pacific.
Play the small scenarios against the AI.

What he said.

I'd forego UV and the original WiTP. They're showing their age. WiTP:AE is a superior product. True, it has much more detail, but it's *so* well done. I've not touched another strategy game in years.

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Post #: 14

RE: Recommend a strategic naval wargame? - 3/6/2015 12:25:54 PM

Agathosdaimon

Posts: 1034
Joined: 7/8/2012
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check out also the offerings from NWS Online

their games Supremacy at Sea, and Navies at War are great as well as their add on for Fighting Steel that if you have that game, adds a campaign to it

also for some lighter fare - the games here http://www.battle-fleet.com/ work fine, its a crap website but the games are legit and they much like Pacific General with some variations

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 15