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Turn Replay? - 3/18/2015 10:13:54 PM

Michael T

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Will the game have the ability to replay the opponents turn?

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 2:03:29 AM

Gil R.

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You mean PBEM replay? No, that's not there. We do, however, have pretty extensive reports, so while you can't watch the firing, you will know what happened. (None of our testers has complained about the lack of replay -- at least, not as far as I can remember.)

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 3:48:53 AM

Michael T

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Well, I think you will get complaints from PBEM players. Here is your first....

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 4:04:15 AM

Erik Rutins

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You can watch the combat execution that takes place on your turn and check the reports and results for what happens during your opponent's turn, which tell you each combat, which units participated and morale and damage results and some special events. It's not that different from WITW or WITE in that regard.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 4:31:43 AM

Michael T

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Well I guess if enough players want it, it will happen. AGEOD listened to their PBEm player base and we now have a replay feature. If only they would introduce a PBEm server as well....

I will probably still get this game. But a replay feature for PBEm would be nice. Reports just don't cut it for me. You need to be able to see how, and where from, enemy units got to be where they presently are to get a good feel for what happened in a turn. For example, if a bunch of guys suddenly appear in my rear I want to know what direct they came from. Just my 2 cents.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 1:21:35 PM

mmarquo

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I second the vote for PBEM replay; nothing like seeing the action unfold in "real time."

Thanks

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 8:45:20 PM

Gil R.

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I checked with our programmer, EricBabe, and he confirms that adding PBEM replay is no small undertaking. We didn't include it in BAB#1 because the game has taken long enough, and this would have caused AT LEAST a one-month delay, and probably much longer. (I have dark memories of how long it took to add this to "Forge of Freedom" and find all of the bugs associated with it, since PBEM replay involves code that touches on just about every part of the game.)

So the best thing I can say is that it is not impossible, but would involve a significant dedication of time and resources, and would come at the expense of making other improvements. So, a decision for WCS to make down the road. We will certainly welcome feedback from people who are playing PBEM before making that decision.

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 3/19/2015 9:46:01 PM >

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/19/2015 8:49:18 PM

Erik Rutins

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Message heard. I think if you're happy with WITE/WITW PBEM though you'll also enjoy this. Playing PBEM, I haven't had trouble keeping up - units do not scoot across the map in a turn, so it's clear when they show up where they came from and the battle information on who fought who and casualty and morale damage is clear. As noted, you also get to watch the execution on your own turn. However, a fully animated replay would be great to have, I agree and it's something we'll keep looking at.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/20/2015 11:27:16 PM

e_barkmann

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quote:

However, a fully animated replay would be great to have, I agree and it's something we'll keep looking at.

I would say this is pretty much essential to get a community going.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/22/2015 8:44:44 PM

Erik Rutins

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Hi Chris,

It's not essential - we have many games that use reports, markers and partial replays and are doing just fine in terms of multiplayer community. However, we certainly recognize that is is a nice feature to have and would make PBEM players happier. We'd like to add a full replay in the future, but we feel that we are already at par with many other PBEM games right now.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/22/2015 9:22:48 PM

Michael T

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HPS/JT have had replays in every game they have for decades. Just saying.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/22/2015 10:06:31 PM

Gil R.

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One can't really compare engines that way. Not to mention that a better comparison would be to the very first Tiller game -- did that already have PBEM replay, or was it added later when the series became popular?

The game could have had a PBEM replay upon release, but then it would be missing an awful lot of the features that, we believe, are setting a new bar for Civil War tactical games. Or it would have been delayed for months longer. Given those as options, I believe we made the right choice not including it at the time of release.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/23/2015 2:09:04 AM

e_barkmann

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Fair call, will look at some PBEM AAR's when available.

cheers

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/23/2015 2:23:11 AM

Rosseau

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Coming from WCS, this will obviously be a premium game in terms of price and quality and definitely fills a niche, imho.

My main concern at first glance is a lack of scenarios. Basically, various iterations of four battles. Also, 1861 was fought by "amateurs" and that phase of the war never held my interest. Others will feel different, I am sure. However, if you're setting us up for paid dlc (and a premium price upfront with no editor), I'm a bit concerned.

Nevertheless, wishing you the best on release!

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/23/2015 2:52:16 AM

Gil R.

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Rosseau,
Those are simply the scenarios that will be in the game when it is released -- we will be adding more scenarios over time, and not charging a thing for them. My plan is to have at least one scenario ready to go for our first patch, and quite possibly more (mainly depending on my non-WCS workload).

You're certainly right about the "amateurs," but I think part of the fun -- or perhaps "challenge" is the better word -- is trying to win with inferior forces bearing inferior weapons. By the time one gets to Gettysburg the troops are as good as they were ever going to be and their weapons (with a few exceptions that never had wide distribution) were also as effective as they were going to be. BAB is designed with both types of armies in mind. It should definitely be interesting to compare the experience of fighting 2nd Manassas and 1st Manassas.

I have to say, I didn't know much about this early phase -- other than the basics about 1st Bull Run -- until I began to research the battles, but now I find it a fascinating period. The Battle of Williamsburg is one of my favorite battles of the Civil War, and it surprises me that it's been so overlooked, overshadowed as it's been by the Seven Days' Battles two months later. Wilson's Creek is also very interesting, as is the background. And Mill Springs is a tiny battle by Shiloh or Gettysburg standards, but still quite compelling. (If you get the game you will find in the manual that "Battleline," one of the two main contributors of generals' bios for "Forge of Freedom," has written lengthy summaries of each battle that do a good job explaining their circumstances and impacts as well as how the battles unfolded -- definitely worth taking a look at.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/23/2015 4:35:04 AM

Rosseau

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Thanks Gil for addressing my questions. At least I will learn something new regarding the early war, vs. another Gettysburg or Antietam. And the moddable files are a nice bonus for more "what if" situations we can create. A few more scenarios via patches is really welcome. I am sold

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RE: Turn Replay? - 3/23/2015 3:20:36 PM

Erik Rutins

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I can personally speak to how much I hate flintlock muskets in the rain after testing Mill Springs from the CSA side.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/20/2015 10:41:26 PM

Michael T

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After monitoring the initial reports about this game I am going to dive in a buy a copy. I only play PBEM so after some initial learning curve time I will be posting for an opponent or 2.

I hope you guys can develop a replay feature sooner rather than later.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/20/2015 10:58:00 PM

Clinchrifles

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I also think that a turn replay is a huge selling point in mp. I would love it. Thanks

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/20/2015 11:53:42 PM

AlessandroD

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quote:

Fair call, will look at some PBEM AAR's when available.

I'll try to write one if I will have enough spare time.

quote:

I only play PBEM so after some initial learning curve time I will be posting for an opponent or 2.

Same here, I guess I have only 4-5 hours played vs AI, and my first PBEM game is going to start!
Let me know when you will be ready

quote:

I also think that a turn replay is a huge selling point in mp. I would love it. Thanks

We soon shall see if the report will be enough

< Message edited by RedComet -- 4/21/2015 12:54:51 AM >

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/21/2015 12:49:11 AM

Michael T

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quote:

Same here, I guess I have only 4-5 hours played vs AI, and my first PBEM game is going to start!
Let me know when you will be ready

Ok, I am purchasing tonight after work. I envisage several days to a week of tinkering then I will be ready.

Anyone have any idea when the first patch will be out?

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/21/2015 6:23:01 PM

AlessandroD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Ok, I am purchasing tonight after work. I envisage several days to a week of tinkering then I will be ready.

Take your time

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/25/2015 12:44:01 PM

AlessandroD

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I add my voice for the replay feature, I'd like to know where came from my losses

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/25/2015 3:28:27 PM

Erik Rutins

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Between the movement arrows and loss overlay and reports, I'm able to get a good sense now, but I agree a replay would be great. We'll have to see how that goes once we get through another update or two.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 4/26/2015 12:50:00 PM

Brambo

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The problem I have and this was also reported by my opponent, here is what he told me.

I had a cav unit on top of a hill and watched a column of enemy infantry coming up a road towards me. On my next turn they had vanished, my cav unit would have seen them turn left or right, or even retreat, not just vanish.

I have to agree with him. They were my units and when I spotted his cav unit we turned right and entered the wood. In real life his cav would have seen that.

< Message edited by Brambo -- 4/26/2015 1:51:19 PM >

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RE: Turn Replay? - 5/11/2015 11:04:16 AM

821Bobo

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Replay would be really helpful. In bigger battles it is impossible to figure out what was happening only from the report.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 5/13/2015 7:31:34 PM

BigDuke66

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Indeed, don't know why some more modern games deny this.
Maybe BAB can be innovative again and do something else than a replay, replay seems to be exactly that in most games the turn is simply played again but in games from HPS/JTS for example this can lead to a lot movement outside your view what leaves the player sitting around with nothing to do and nothing to see.
If BAB would simply be able to "record" the actions within the visible area it would be enough, that gives the player to see what he can see without being forced to sit and wait for all the other actions ouside the visible area to be done.the replay be done

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RE: Turn Replay? - 5/22/2015 12:39:38 AM

Michael T

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Any idea when a replay might be developed?

Its needed for PBEM, no doubt.

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RE: Turn Replay? - 5/22/2015 12:53:27 AM

marcpennington

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I'd add my voice to a request for true turn replay.

But also, in PBEM the way the turn is presented is highly problematic. It shows the turn from your opponent's perspective. And although any units of his you can't see are hidden, you can see exactly which units of yours he can see, including stuff like the flag icons for unidentified units. It also shows stuff you wouldn't able to otherwise be able to see, such as his global morale rating.

I'd strongly prefer if after you plotted your moves, you saw the combat execution of your own side, and then the game saved and uploaded to the server.

But really, some form of replay with proper FOW showing would be the best of all worlds.

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