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Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:20:32 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		Scenario is 28C (DaBigBabes), October 1942. I’m looking for advices about handling resource and fuel out of Palembang. I have built the port at maximum (level 4) and I have piled up a number of Engineers with Naval support. No matter. Palembang is still a complete mess with TFs that cannot dock and spend weeks to load fuel. Simply said, the production is too high to be handled with a so small port. Unless someone can come up with a great idea! Thanks everybody.

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:23:30 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Shuttle service to a nearby port with more capacity. So send small tankers that load fast to Palembang and have them dump their stuff at Singers. Then send your big tankers to singers for the big haul leg of the journey.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 3/20/2015 5:23:41 PM >

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:25:50 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Send smaller Oil/Fuel tanker TFs there (and more of 'em) and have them circuit to Singapore. They can fully unload there in a day and return to Palembang to reload. It will more difficult to efficiently load such TFs if they are too large for a size 4 port, particularly when you start loading oil.

Once the fuel/oil is at Singapore, it should not be a problem to load much larger TFs from there for the home islands.

Resource TFs get second shrift at Palembang. There's plenty of other places to pull resources from instead. Resource TFs should not be clogging those port facilities and competing with oil/fuel TFs, IMO.

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:26:15 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Shuttle service to a nearby port with more capacity. So send small tankers that load fast to Palembang and have them dump their stuff at Singers. Then send your big tankers to singers for the big haul leg of the journey.

Jim

Gah! Scooped again!

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:32:27 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks guys. Indeed I have tried this way, it is much more efficient but a little bit dangerous. I mean, Palembang "exit" it is a perfect spot for sub ambushes and you are not supposed to escort a myriad of little TFs. I guess your answer will be "deploy a lot of aircraft with good ASW pilots and sub chaser TFs" correct?

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:33:13 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

Thanks guys. Indeed I have tried this way, it is much more efficient but a little bit dangerous. I mean, Palembang "exit" it is a perfect spot for sub ambushes and you are not supposed to escort a myriad of little TFs. I guess your answer will be "deploy a lot of aircraft with good ASW pilots and sub chaser TFs" correct?

Yup.

ETA: I escort my AO and TK convoys regardless of where they are located. You are 'supposed' to protect these precious vessels.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 3/20/2015 5:36:08 PM >

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:35:18 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

Thanks guys. Indeed I have tried this way, it is much more efficient but a little bit dangerous. I mean, Palembang "exit" it is a perfect spot for sub ambushes and you are not supposed to escort a myriad of little TFs. I guess your answer will be "deploy a lot of aircraft with good ASW pilots and sub chaser TFs" correct?


Seriously though, it's difficult for the Allies to park subs in this area if you have eliminated most nearby submarine bases that the Allies can use. Have you taken Northern Australia? Ceylon? NE India? Where could this submarine threat be? Push him back to make a submarine offensive in this region impractical or unpalatable.

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 4:35:52 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

Thanks guys. Indeed I have tried this way, it is much more efficient but a little bit dangerous. I mean, Palembang "exit" it is a perfect spot for sub ambushes and you are not supposed to escort a myriad of little TFs. I guess your answer will be "deploy a lot of aircraft with good ASW pilots and sub chaser TFs" correct?


ASW is all about detection levels. If you have very good search patterns and spot most of his subs and keep the detection levels high, then just a few ASW task forces set to react 6 can keep the short run between Singers and Palembang relatively safe. High value ships should get an escort, but I wouldn’t go overboard trying to escort every little convoy in such restricted waters. Heavy air search will be the key.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 3/20/2015 5:36:19 PM >

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 5:07:10 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		I still have to take Burma, let's alone Ceylon and India . Let's face a simple fact: my opponent is much better than me .

OK, I had it coming I'm "supposed" to protect my valuable assets. But escorts are tons, and my priority is to get as nearly as possible to that threshold of 48k tons for ports 4, right? I guess you will tell me "use escorts as little as you can, like those tiny SCs making for 200 - 300 tons .

Jokes aside, thans everybody, guys!

< Message edited by adsoul64 -- 3/20/2015 6:07:32 PM >

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 5:20:20 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Run two TFs using the 7950 capacity TKs from Palembang to Singapore plus escorts to load only fuel. In between, squeeze in a few TFs with the 1250 capacity TKs loading oil. Meanwhile, max out Oosthaven port and run TF using the 7950 capacity TKs or smaller from here to Batavia (when you start to creat a demand here, the AI will move fuel here). Lay minefields at Oosthaven and Merak to keep Allied subs at bay. Since it is past June 1st 42, you can convert most of your "Std-A, B, C, or D" xAKs to TKs which are great for use in small ports. If you try to use a few of the very large capacity TKs here, you will never be able to catch up with production.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 3/20/2015 6:21:03 PM >

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 5:24:43 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

I still have to take Burma, let's alone Ceylon and India . Let's face a simple fact: my opponent is much better than me .

OK, I had it coming I'm "supposed" to protect my valuable assets. But escorts are tons, and my priority is to get as nearly as possible to that threshold of 48k tons for ports 4, right? I guess you will tell me "use escorts as little as you can, like those tiny SCs making for 200 - 300 tons .

Jokes aside, thans everybody, guys!


I would go with smaller task forces of 24,000 tons at a level 4 port. Those will load much faster, so better to have smaller task forces shuttling than larger. Create one, let it load and leave the base, and create the next. Keep doing this until the first one returns or is just about to return and you will then have an almost non-stop chain shuttling fuel.

Then keep maybe 4-6 extra ships idle in port for use replacing losses or swapping out with vessels that need a refit and your good to go.

Jim


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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 5:26:09 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Just use two or three ASW groups if subs do show up. It's shallow water and the subs wont last long...

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"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/20/2015 10:36:21 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Just use two or three ASW groups if subs do show up. It's shallow water and the subs wont last long...


Yup, I'm in mid '42 and this is the area of my only confirmed surface ASW kill. ASW DC'ed the sub to the surface and then killed it with guns.


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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/21/2015 2:36:29 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		The 46,000 maximum docking capacity means very little for a port like Palembang; instead what you want to check for is:

Daily fuel ship maximum: for a level 4 port, it is 4,000 This is the maximum each individual docked tanker can fill in one day
Daily fuel port maximum: for a level 4 port, it is 18,750 This is the port's daily maximum fuel transfer (for all ships docked)

I haven't played Japan in a long time, but I am sure these two maximums are increased by refineries/ oil wells at Palembang; I will need to check


Build TFs that are inside the limits, so that you will load in one day, extra docking capacity can be used to move out resources if you wish, as long as they are within the 46 maximum



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/21/2015 3:37:11 PM >

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RE: Palembang is a mess - 3/21/2015 6:16:42 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Refineries and oil production facilities at a port increase the load rate and daily maximum limits for fuel and oil respectively. Increase is equal to one half of daily production in rate, full daily production in limit. If both refineries and oil production are present, the amount of oil used by the refinery is deducted from the increases.

So... to make things easier, lets assume you have enough oil to cover the refinery; then your daily rate and daily limits should be:
900 oil centers x 10 = 9,000 oil per day. This is your total daily production.

Total daily fuel ship maximum: 4,000 for a level 4 port + 9,000/2 = 8,500 total.
A Manzyu TM class tanker or a Shiretoko class oiler would fit; at least in my DBB game, cargo capacity varies between scenarios

Total daily port maximum = 18,750 + 9,000 = 27,750
Under an ideal situation your TF should be 3 Manzyu or 3 Shiretoko + 3 small Type-1 TS tankers + escorts
This of course assumes perfect conditions and no fuel replenishment at all for any ships during the turn. EDIT: This is the kind of port where having plenty of yard oilers (DBB)can help

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/21/2015 8:13:48 PM >

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