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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 1/28/2015 9:35:23 AM

Joseignacio

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I have resisted in Bourdeaux, with a stack one of which was an AA, leaving by sea when it was getting rough with all of them.

But Le Havre seems to be a cool place too. It doesn't make the germans go all the way down to the Spanish border, land an air units alike when they should be going to USSR, but the support not only of the Navy but in this case the planes based in the south of England make it nice too.

And if I am not wrong you don't need (for FTC) to have an HQ anymore, you could send an inf which is cheaper...

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/28/2015 10:36:35 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 1/28/2015 1:11:03 PM

Centuur

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As Paul has said, this is quite normal.

To get those units out, you can use ART too. Put those in the hex south of Le Havre and they can assist in bombarding the hex. Ground strike the units with a Stuka to get the necessary disorganised unit (additional +2) and force them out using the Blitzkrieg table with Guderian providing ground support in the attack. That should be enough. It takes some preparation to do so, but it's better to kill those units than to have them sitting on your doorstep.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 1/31/2015 7:58:02 PM

rkr1958

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Thanks guys! So the lesson that I learned as the Germans with respect to the BEF is that some priority needs to be put towards destroying or forcing out the BEF while the French campaign is still hot.

Shifting gears ...

I think I'm continuing to understand more of the subtleties with production and oil. And, I'm really enjoying this aspect of the game though time consuming. And, since I had no prior experience with or even own the paper of cardboard version (i.e., WiF), I'm getting comfortable using the MWiF production interface. With all that said, I wanted to pass along another nugget that I just learned about managing oil.

The situation is that the US is neutral and therefore can only save 1 oil point per turn. All 40 of her factories are working but her production multiplier is only 0.25, which means that I could idle two factories and still get 10 build points per turn. If I could save more oil, or had option 15 which would enable the US to ship resources to the Western Allies, I would idle the two factories, save one point per turn and ship the rest to the CW in Canada. I've discussed this (different) nugget before. Now what I figured out today was that during the oil use phase, the US could consume up to two oil points going to factories (i.e., the two idle factories) or idle oil point(s) and still save an oil point per turn. This nugget may have been obvious to you veteran (M)WiF players but it wasn't to me until today. This game has has as may layers as an onion. I REALLY like and enjoy it!

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 1/31/2015 9:03:20 PM

paulderynck

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If you mean you can use more than 0.45 of an oil resource for re-org, and still produce it or save it - that's a bug.

If you mean you have a PM of .25 and 41 oil plus non-oil resources, then certainly you can idle two factories, produce the same number of BPs, re-organize and thus consume two oil resources, and still save an oil.

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Paul

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 1/31/2015 10:36:43 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

If you mean you can use more than 0.45 of an oil resource for re-org, and still produce it or save it - that's a bug.

If you mean you have a PM of .25 and 41 oil plus non-oil resources, then certainly you can idle two factories, produce the same number of BPs, re-organize and thus consume two oil resources, and still save an oil.

Sorry for the confusion. What I'm trying to say is that I can consume one or more oil points that are either idle or intended for production and still save one oil point per turn while neutral. In this specific case, this has no impact on US production if they can keep 38 or more factories churning at a production multiplier of 0.25. Again, this is probably painfully obvious to you veteran (M)WiF players, but it wasn't to me until today.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/5/2015 6:02:02 PM

brian brian

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Going back to the idea of "Left Behind" BEF forces, I think this is proper Allied play in general. Defensive Shore Bombardment optional in play makes this even more true, and it shouldn't be that difficult for the Allies to maintain supply across the North Sea, even from Luftwaffe attack.

I like to simply leave two British (not other CW) MIL in Rouen. Although this gives the Germans more frontage to attack, this then also exposes more of their units to disorganization on a bad roll. Maybe the Germans will risk their Engineer on the place if the Allies are lucky. If they are dumb/lazy enough to include a Panzer in the attack without a MOT division, the British can go for luck on the Blitz table to make it the casualty in the attack, and/or possibly retreat to Le Havre as well and start the process over again. Putting the AA/AT there is effective though possibly expensive, and I'd rather have it on the line at the Garonde river. If the Germans don't take the bait, the Royal Navy should have the flexibility to evacuate later if the units are needed elsewhere.

Yes, the units deployed in these tactics will be killed. But so what...they aren't real human beings that would not have been ordered into such tactics by the historical commanders. The goal is to make the Germans waste their air missions and combat powers, simply to buy time for other areas on the map, such as the line in the Pyrennees. Every impulse the Germans waste in northern France is one more they will want to have in front of Gibraltar later on.

With a built-out CW MIL pool and a good infantry gearing, the two lost MIL re-appear in England the next turn, ready for the next delaying tactic - Bilbao, perhaps?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/7/2015 9:06:33 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Going back to the idea of "Left Behind" BEF forces, I think this is proper Allied play in general. Defensive Shore Bombardment optional in play makes this even more true, and it shouldn't be that difficult for the Allies to maintain supply across the North Sea, even from Luftwaffe attack.

I like to simply leave two British (not other CW) MIL in Rouen. Although this gives the Germans more frontage to attack, this then also exposes more of their units to disorganization on a bad roll. Maybe the Germans will risk their Engineer on the place if the Allies are lucky. If they are dumb/lazy enough to include a Panzer in the attack without a MOT division, the British can go for luck on the Blitz table to make it the casualty in the attack, and/or possibly retreat to Le Havre as well and start the process over again. Putting the AA/AT there is effective though possibly expensive, and I'd rather have it on the line at the Garonde river. If the Germans don't take the bait, the Royal Navy should have the flexibility to evacuate later if the units are needed elsewhere.

Yes, the units deployed in these tactics will be killed. But so what...they aren't real human beings that would not have been ordered into such tactics by the historical commanders. The goal is to make the Germans waste their air missions and combat powers, simply to buy time for other areas on the map, such as the line in the Pyrennees. Every impulse the Germans waste in northern France is one more they will want to have in front of Gibraltar later on.

With a built-out CW MIL pool and a good infantry gearing, the two lost MIL re-appear in England the next turn, ready for the next delaying tactic - Bilbao, perhaps?

One of my exploitable flaws (and I have many) when I play WW2 games (e.g., MWiF, CEaW-GS, Panzer Corps, Battlefield Academy, AH's 3rd Reich) is that I like to "play" them as a simulation of what happened or might realistically have happened in WW2 at the scale and fidelity of the game. I play this way whether or not I'm playing an opponent (hence exploitable) or solitaire. So if I'm playing the Soviets I have no problem was massive losses and without concern for individual units. When I'm playing the Western Allies (i.e., CW, USA or France), I don't play that way because historically their militaries didn't / don't operate that way. I know it's just a game and the counters aren't real. But, losing the RN because it's no longer needed or throwing away corps size units just to inconvenience the axis is not how I enjoying playing.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/7/2015 9:13:56 PM

rkr1958

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Question. What exactly does the first number (3.1) in the "To Reorg. units: 1.85/3.1" line on the production form under oil resources mean? Specifically, when I mouse over that line I get a pop up that defines the two numbers as, "Count of oil resources/points needed to reorganize disorganize units. I think I understand the second number (3.1). It's how much oil I need to reorganize all my units that require oil. But the first number? How can the count of oil resources not be a whole number (i.e., 1.85)?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/7/2015 9:28:13 PM

paulderynck

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The first number is the cost to re-org at that instant. The second is the cost if everything at sea were to RTB and then be re-orged. When playing with oil. Italy, Japan and the CW are the most liable to budget less than the max or to try to shave their cost down to the next lower "X.45". This is done by selectively leaving units at sea and/or selectively leaving the poorest naval units non-oiled.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/7/2015 9:49:11 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The first number is the cost to re-org at that instant. The second is the cost if everything at sea were to RTB and then be re-orged. When playing with oil. Italy, Japan and the CW are the most liable to budget less than the max or to try to shave their cost down to the next lower "X.45". This is done by selectively leaving units at sea and/or selectively leaving the poorest naval units non-oiled.

Thanks! Now that makes sense. Is it me or is the message in the pop-up confusing?

Oh ... I think I see what the "/" means now. It isn't a break between two definitions (i.e., defining 1.85 / 3.1). It could be read as "Count of oil resources (i.e., points) needed to reorganize all disorganize units."

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/28/2015 6:52:11 PM

rkr1958

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O.K., so here's the situation. It's the first impulse of the Jan/Feb 1941 turn. The US desires to, "Pass War Appropriation's Bill" which require 34 entry and 17 tension levels in both pools and "gear up production" (option 22) being previously select, which the US did. The US has enough tension in both pools and has decided to choose no other entry option until they get the requisite 34 entry levels in both pools. At this point it seems to me that the US may have to wait 2 or even 3 turns until they can get to 34 in both pools. But no ...

Germany, supported by Italy, has decide to conquer the Balkans, starting with Yugoslavia before they turn their might against the Soviets hopefully in May/June 1941. So here are how events transpired this first impulse of the Jan/Feb 1941 turn. Germany and Italy declare war on Yugoslavia, Germany aligns Romanian and Japan aligns Madagascar. All there actions produce a number of draws that pole vaults US entry levels in both pools above the desire 34 giving them the ability to pass the war appropriation's bill at the end of the turn.

So now to my question. As the axis player was I too greedy in aligning both Romanian and Madagascar? I really need Romanian, really access through Romanian to take out Yugoslavia and Greece quickly. But, to forestall giving the US the ability to pass the war appropriation bill by 1 turn would have required me (as the axis) to not align either country.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/28/2015 9:16:41 PM

Courtenay

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Eventually you would get Rumania, no matter what. Madagascar is not very important. Each turn of war appropriations adds at least ten points (more likely more) of US production a year. Also, it means that the US will very likely be going to war sooner.

So yes, I think that you were a little too greedy as the Axis.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/28/2015 10:26:14 PM

Centuur

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It depends on how your greed has been paying off. Are Spain and Gibraltar in Axis hands, or is Spain still neutral? What about Vichy? Has the Japanese killed the Chinese or not?

But generally speaking, it is not a good thing...

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2015 12:50:34 AM

brian brian

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Keep playing and ask yourself the same question in Jan/Feb 1945.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2015 3:52:19 AM

paulderynck

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All those actions except one of the DoWs on Yugoslavia are needed eventually. As long as Italy and Germany are already at war with the country that aligns Yugoslavia (highly likely in JF41), the only thing you give up by DoWing with just one of the two is that power doesn't get Surprise benefits against the Yugos. (The country that doesn't DoW will automatically be at war with the Yugos as soon as the Yugos align with a major on the other side and if the Yugos don't align, then Yugoslavia is automatically conquered.)

So that was what I'd call wasted risk.

As for the others, it is all luck and timing. If you think the US is close to where they need to be for War Approps, then go easily and carefully and try to put off any actions that are not absolutely necessary to the strategic plan. If not, then you likely suffered some bad luck this time around. It happens.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 3/1/2015 4:53:10 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2015 3:42:11 PM

rkr1958

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Thanks! After a year with this game and steadily climbing the learning curve, I'm still "excited" by the possibilities and complexities it has to offer!

Now another question concerning convoy protection.

I get it that you want a group of ships with good ASW capabilities in the zero box "escorting" your convoys in critical sea areas that can be reached by axis sub groups (e.g., Bay of Biscay, Cape St. Vincent, North Atlantic). I also understand you want a second group in a higher box so that they'll remain in the sea area after the turn ends. My question is what box do you recommend that second group go in? In volume 1 of the players manual it recommended that they go into the 4 box. However, by placing this second group in the 4 box, which moves down to the 3 box during the stay at sea phase, the convoys are "unprotected" at the beginning of the next turn until the allies get a naval, or combined, action to move the second groups to the 0 box. Why wouldn't I place the second groups in the 1 box to begin with and see them move to the 0 box during the stay at sea phase? This way my convoys would never be unprotected.

So is the following a bad strategy?

1. Convoy security. For each sea area under threat from axis sub groups determine the number and composition of ships needed for convoy escort for that sea area. Form 2 two groups specific dedicate to convoy security for that sea area. Initially place the first group in the 0 box and the second in the 1 box. During the return to base phase move the group in the 1 box to the 0 box. Of course the group in the 0 box at the start of the turn will have to return to base. Reorganize and send this group back to the 1 box during any impulse of the next turn.

2. Other naval missions. While other naval missions my be combined with convoy security groups in the 0 or 1 box, these "other naval missions" task forces operate independently and should be placed in the sea box that bests fits there missions (e.g., invasion / shore bombardment 4 or 3).

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2015 5:27:40 PM

Centuur

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Ideally, you want cruisers in the 0,1 and the 4 box and a NAV on the coast available to fly into the 0 box to protect the convoys when SUB's initiate combat... You need a ship in the high box to minimise the chance of surprise...

A good one is also to have a CV in the 0 box.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2015 11:25:47 PM

rkr1958

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Thanks! Now another (unrelated question). The situation is that the Japanese have captured all communist Chinese cities and have wiped all communist Chinese units off the board. There are 2, or 3, communist units "ready" for deployment with no place to deploy. My question is is there any way to resurrect communist China and get their units back into the war?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/2/2015 1:15:11 AM

brian brian

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Nope. Or at least, as Courtenay says, some day I'll learn how to play this game ...

The standard solution when the ChiComms look to be in dire peril is to send one of their units towards Cheng-Tu to convert it to Communism. Ideally a unit with 4 movement factors, or the cavalry division with 5, so it can make it through mountain hexes without flipping.

One other small help in this situation would be to scrap any Commie unit with an applicable date on the back.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/2/2015 2:24:28 AM

paulderynck

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Or let them "ride the spiral" for a few years, wait for the big, green machine to arrive and take Si-An, and then promptly revert it to the ChiComs.

(For anyone paying attention - this ploy is very ahistorical, but gamer-wise... wise.)

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/16/2015 12:31:33 AM

rkr1958

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I don't have a question but an observation I'd like to pass on. My observation is that the details, richness and subtleties of this game continue to impress and amaze me. I'd like to pass along one such case that just happened.

It's Jan/Feb 1940 and the Germans have conquered Holland, Belgium and just successfully drove the French out of Belgium. They're poised for good weather and the chance to really take it to the French and CW in Western Europe. Back East in Poland the Germans have 4 corps (1 is covered up by the production screen) and 1 garrison with zones of control that cover all Polish cities and resources. So no chance, or so I thought, of any risk from partisans when the turn ended. Well, the turn did end and a Polish partisan popped up and was deployed in the woods adjacent to Warsaw. My plan for garrisoning Poland only dealt with the immediate threat posed from any partisans that spawned. That is, it kept them out of the cities and resources but left gaps adjacent to them where they could be deployed. In fact, I had left both Lodz and Warsaw, probably the two most critical cities in Poland, vulnerable to this threat. To make matters worse, the Germans had saved two oil points in Warsaw. All the allies needed to do to be able to inflict significant pain on the Germans was to win the initiate and choose to move first. More on that later.

From the German perspective I wanted to minimize the damage that the partisan could do if the allies got to move first. So during the reorganization phase I used the 2 oil points saved in Warsaw. So at least if I, as the Germans lost Warsaw I wouldn't also lose 2 oil points. Well, in that regard I made another tactical error. I didn't change where the oil point from Ploesti, Rumania was being saved, which was Warsaw. So an oil point that shouldn't have been sent to Warsaw was and, along with Warsaw, was put at risk!

After working through the end of turn phases for the Jan/Feb 1940 turn, I now came to the all important initiative rolls for the Mar/Apr 1940 turn. Neither side had the advantage; i.e., the initiative track was at 0, but the allies had moved first last turn, thus the axis would win ties. The axis rolled first and rolled a 7. The allies also rolled a 7 and since the axis won ties they won the first roll. But of course the allies elected for a re-roll and the axis rolled a 1! Mitigating this some was that the 1 was modified to a 2 with the axis still winning ties. But, yikes all the allies needed to do was to roll a 3 or higher (i.e., they had an 80% chance of winning the second roll). Talk about chocking, the allies rolled a 1 and the Germans dodged a major bullet.

Now tell me that is fun, exciting and suspenseful!

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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/16/2015 1:33:33 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/16/2015 9:52:38 PM

Orm

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quote:

Now tell me that is fun, exciting and suspenseful!

This is fun, exciting and suspenseful.

I see that Germany are not overly concerned with the possibility that USSR can move troops towards the border with Germany and break the pact.

Or maybe you have minor country units to take care of the garrison ratio?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/16/2015 10:29:53 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

Now tell me that is fun, exciting and suspenseful!

This is fun, exciting and suspenseful.

I see that Germany are not overly concerned with the possibility that USSR can move troops towards the border with Germany and break the pact.

Or maybe you have minor country units to take care of the garrison ratio?

I've got the Hungarians to help out and I'm planning on sending a few more German units east (militia and weak corps) to help. But my plan is to finish France off over the next two turns and throw all the Germans east.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/17/2015 4:33:52 AM

rkr1958

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Here's the Nazi-Soviet pact situation at the beginning of impulse 5 of the Mar/Apr 1940 turn.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/17/2015 4:54:51 AM

Orm

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If USSR would have selected offensive chits instead they would have been very close to be able to break the pact. All those traded resources lost do hurt Germany a lot even if USSR do not DOW. 6.5 units (if I counted correctly) goes fast for USSR to transfer to the border.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/21/2015 8:25:30 PM

rkr1958

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Bad luck? Bad play? Great play (as Germany)?

The Germans agree to establish Vichy and only the French Pacific didn't go Vichy. Or specifically, only the French Pacific went Free France and to my surprise I got a message that Free France was completely conquered.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/21/2015 8:25:57 PM

rkr1958

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By the way ... de Gualle is fuming!

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/21/2015 11:48:54 PM

paulderynck

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That can happen. New Caledonia is a territory, not a minor, so if that's all that goes FF on the control rolls, then FF is conquered.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/22/2015 12:40:11 AM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

That can happen. New Caledonia is a territory, not a minor, so if that's all that goes FF on the control rolls, then FF is conquered.

Thanks!

Looks like de Gualle is going to have to be satisfied commanding a tank regiment attached to a CW armor division.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/22/2015 10:51:14 AM

Centuur

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Were all French BB's and CV (if not interned by the US) in France? If not, than there was a modifier to the die roll, which makes the creation of Free France more difficult.

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