Zorachus99
Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
Getting an opponent to agree to disorganize his units, when they are organized isn't easy.
If you agree to play and to implement Option 47 as best you can, and then your opponent won't dis-org the units he should, then you need to find another opponent.
Exactly why I'm not playing the game yet Paul, I appreciate the response. I don't know anyone who wants to track supply.
The amount of errata that needs to be tracked for option 47 can be less than obvious in certain cases, such as with Japan in China, while using the overseas step in supply. Weather effects such as snow or rain complicate the situation as they both have different supply lengths.
And, yes, I've had game plans hinge on option 47.
One of the last face to face games I played went into 1945. The situation was that in 1944 Japan had been beaten back, having been too overconfident, lost their marines in a counter-invasion, and was fighting the Soviets, China, and the USA.
The US carrier fleet had hung back a while due to Japanese early victories, but showed up in strength in 1944. During a super-combined activity, the US swatted what I call a Mini-KB pocket carrier fleet I had covering supply to the Philippines. Seeing the writing on the wall for my picket fleet, they aborted after taking moderate damage, and I decided not to commit any of my available planes to support the Mini-KB. Meanwhile, the US Carrier fleet swept in, invaded with 10 units in the Philippines including all three marines, some divisions and a few infantry on amphibious ships, with the support of the entire American navy. I lost everything but Manila in one impulse, and was in a bad situation to be sure. However, I had saved all of my land based aircraft for the next impulse. The Japanese sortied their entire fleet to meet the Americans, and flew out every good land based air they had. Luck was with me, and I got quite a few surprise points. I used several surprise points to decrease the value of the enemy fighters, and managed to clear about 5 planes through, as well as clearing the sky of planes to a significant degree where I had gained superiority. I selected my best two CVP's as kamikaze's and hit the carriers with about 12 points of air to sea, with two bombers getting destroyed by AA fire. While that doesn't seem like much getting through, it really is when there are over 100 targets. Because of surprise I chose the first three targets, and managed to damage two of fleet carriers with aircraft aborted on them. I also aborted a good carrier, and the ghost was up, I had taken the skies in a convincing way. The Americans were now fearing for their amphibs and transports, and potentially in a situation to lose the rest of their air-cover. The US aborted their entire fleet to safety, and I had cut the supply to the Philippines for the entire turn for all purposes, but had no ability to strike back any further. There were a huge number of out-of-supply units, and all of the invasion force was non-oil dependent landing type troops. Some land units were disrupted by terrain, combat, and the US had re-based and aborted many aircraft to the Philippines during the naval combat which were all out of supply.
To say the least my opponent was annoyed, and my spirits had been lifted a bit by the delaying action.
The game of course went badly for the Japanese the very next turn, losing the sea zone, but by putting the Philippines out of supply, I gained an entire turn delay, because the marines were still disrupted at the beginning of the the next turn. It was a big gamble near the end of the game, and part of my plan.
Currently if that happened to me now, it is simply part of the rules that the non-oil dependent units will re-organize. I would not have the incentive to make such a play.
The problem is, if Steve moves on to fix net-play next, it will be firmly ingrained in the online community that 'this is how' supply is supposed to work. Worse yet, I get to continue to wait, because solitaire online is laborious.
I'm sure I can continue to come up with reasons why this rule needs to be used if you are playing the 'advanced' version of WIF. For all of those out there learning the game, and using the 1d10 table, or prefer supply the way it is, will continue to enjoy their product. I'm a bit stuck, like many other people. Perhaps I'm simply not the type of person to plow past bugs, but supply is the most critical part of every strategic war-game I've played in my past, and perhaps I simply can't get past this issue with the electronic version of the game. Debug mode is a workaround to force your units to be disrupted, but I am not good at tracing supply except in the most obvious cases. I need the program to help with supply. Supply has to be the most difficult part of the game for me personally. Again, this is why I can't play Vassal any longer. The games are riddled with mistakes, sometimes big ones.
What I'm left with is hope. Guess I'll take a serving of it, instead of some sour pessimism.
Aloha!
_____________________________
Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln
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Printable Version
RE: Option 47 - 
[it seems to me you have to live with it 
] until the rest of the game gets corrected whenever that might be. And even then I would hate to see the implantation of this rule cause more havoc for the programmer. 
] when you are disorganized in real combat reality and MWIF reality, of course we are trying to keep the game realistic I assume, to reorganize in real combat you need supplies ammo food etc. To me it does not matter if a unit is next to you, it can be a full hex away or 2 hexes away as long as it is blocking all supply routes. 
they decided to do it this way which allows centuur's Italians units in Addis Ababa to be in supply or out of supply depending on the implementation or non implementation of rule 47, did I say that right. Getting confused
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