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Retreat and rally point

 
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Retreat and rally point - 3/24/2015 11:08:05 AM   
Flef

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Is it planned to get unit a way to retreat when ordered?

could it be bound to a rally point or a pre-planned route?
Post #: 1
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/24/2015 11:17:20 AM   
batteran

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/18/2012
From: New Caledonia
Status: offline 		Like a "Delay" order which you preset waypoints for retreating, and that unit just go this way when the ennemy go closer than his "prefered standoff" range? ^^

I hope something like that is for the next game engine, maybe we would get an update for the actual engine as well, who know?

< Message edited by batteran -- 3/24/2015 12:17:27 PM >

(in reply to Flef)
Post #: 2
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/24/2015 11:53:07 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		We are already looking at adding a Withdrawal order to the mix which is basically sit here until "X" then move back to here type of order for defending actions.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to batteran)
Post #: 3
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/24/2015 8:01:30 PM   
Flef

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Many thanks for the answer :)


'love your game

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 4
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 4:48:02 AM   
batteran

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/18/2012
From: New Caledonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

We are already looking at adding a Withdrawal order to the mix which is basically sit here until "X" then move back to here type of order for defending actions.


It's like a "condition" for execute an order.
Today, an unit start the turn with a stance/posture (and maybe an order in the pipe ^^) an you can issue an order as a movement + a stance (or a stance only)
If you had a condition for the execution of this order, it open very interressing features!

Like we say, if "X" is reached (X may be a ennemy distance, or some casualties maybe?), the unit execute this "delayed" order we previously gave to them, the same way we actually give an order: we just have added a condition!

I'm not sure of the amount of devellopement for that, but it certainly will fit very well in the actual system ^^ And add some interressing possibilities and tactics! What if instead of a retreat back if ennemies came close, I previously have ordered a counter-assault? ^^

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 5
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 6:51:37 AM   
batteran

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/18/2012
From: New Caledonia
Status: offline 		I'm not very good in english, so I make a little pic for the point ^^

It's just a suggestion, but I like drawing things for selling things ^^

First line green 1-2-3 is the way it works today when you issue an order.

Seconde line Red 2b is another popup for "conditioning" an order. It pop after you have selected the stance and offer the choice at the player to go ASAP (the actual way), or to specify a condition in the 2c pop-up ^^

-> But this can be annoying if you use only ASAP orders, as it make another boring click.

Another way to go is to add these feature instead in the waypoint editor, as in third line "Waypoint alternative".

Probably even more flexible, as you can set for example:
- 2 waypoint for going in defensive position
- a third "conditionned waypoint" for the retreat way.

In only one order.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to batteran)
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RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 8:27:31 AM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		That's a lot of orders for each unit...

What about allowing HQs to set a RV point that all the formations units will try to move towards in instances of screen-scoot being applied

You'll reduce the amount of 'move here in case of overwhelming attack' orders needed and to me its more inline with FC putting you in the command seat rather than controlling each and every unit down to the last detail

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AUCTO SPLENDORE RESURGO

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RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 10:38:46 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Tazak, not sure about a group formation move just yet, but we will work to make thing as smooth as we can. At a minimum you will set each unit like you do now.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Tazak)
Post #: 8
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 11:21:30 AM   
batteran

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/18/2012
From: New Caledonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tazak

That's a lot of orders for each unit...

What about allowing HQs to set a RV point that all the formations units will try to move towards in instances of screen-scoot being applied

You'll reduce the amount of 'move here in case of overwhelming attack' orders needed and to me its more inline with FC putting you in the command seat rather than controlling each and every unit down to the last detail


Technically, I don't add "new" orders, nor the habillity to set more than one order or the way you give them.

I just add to the way you make an order today, one possible step: "conditionning".

And if these "conditionning" can be set via the waypoint editor only, it's in fact totaly invisible: you have, after you make an order exactly like you do today (no changes), to go to the waypoint editor for add such condition to a waypoint if you want.

< Message edited by batteran -- 3/25/2015 12:22:27 PM >

(in reply to Tazak)
Post #: 9
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 12:45:37 PM   
Flef

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Don't forget that the AI must be able to play it too and it can't be too complicated for the decision manager of the AI (complexity and clock usage). The more behaviors are added, the more unexpected behaviors are to be seen leading to very understandable complaints from the players.

That's why I was thinking to a rally point. The player/AI set a way point at start of the game and when it decides to fall back or when a unit is routed, the pathfinding manager can draw a route to the rally point from the unit location.

(in reply to batteran)
Post #: 10
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 10:03:49 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flef

Don't forget that the AI must be able to play it too and it can't be too complicated for the decision manager of the AI (complexity and clock usage). The more behaviors are added, the more unexpected behaviors are to be seen leading to very understandable complaints from the players.

That's why I was thinking to a rally point. The player/AI set a way point at start of the game and when it decides to fall back or when a unit is routed, the pathfinding manager can draw a route to the rally point from the unit location.



+1

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Flef)
Post #: 11
RE: Retreat and rally point - 3/25/2015 11:13:23 PM   
batteran

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/18/2012
From: New Caledonia
Status: offline 		I got your point.

OK, let's brainstorm about that AI:

- Today, the AI do well in attack, less well in defense.
- These sort of "conditions" or withdrawal orders must give an interressing option to the player AND increase the hability of the AI to do well in defensive positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
We are already looking at adding a Withdrawal order to the mix which is basically sit here until "X" then move back to here type of order for defending actions.


Basically, adding a "delay/condition" to the Withdrawal orders the IA actually make when in defensive positions can lead in some improved AI:

-> Imagine the IA take a good victory/defensive location (it do that well today)

-> The IA on theyr next order phase set a whidrawal order (move hasty, screen for exemple, but variants are possible) to another position (closer to HQ, or map border side?), and delayed to a condition like previously stated. Typically conditions are: on first fires, on casualties taken, if players units came closer than X hexes, if more than XX ennemies are on sight... (the same options the player will have): the condition choices for the AI depends on the type and strenght of units, their readyness and morale, the number of VP, ect.

-> When you -the player- assault that position you trigger that condition at some point, and the IA have a chance to disengage immediately (it's a "in the pipe" order: no delay) before you can wipe them and then regroup to the whitdrawal position.

That sound like an good improvement. I think I can love that ^^

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Tazak, not sure about a group formation move just yet, but we will work to make thing as smooth as we can. At a minimum you will set each unit like you do now.


I'm sure you will find the right solution ^^

I'm very glad we can talk about that sort of features with the dev team, by the way.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 12
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