Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT)

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Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/22/2015 9:01:11 PM

Sangeli
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How many of you are tired of spending hours each week managing pilots for your PBEM game? Probably a lot of you, especially those who play as the Allies. Certainly I am tired of it myself. Which is why last year I decided to make a program that can manage pilots by playing the game for you. Since that time I have made a lot of progress but there is still much work to be done. If you're curious then check out the video I made of the tool in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om5S7FXRnrI&feature=youtu.be

It's not quite as fast as a human yet but I'm making progress. It's implementing a very basic management algorithm but it only applies to a monotonic training group light fighter pilots which can all be trained the same. My greatest challenge is going to be to implement training algorithms for pilot groups that don't training monotonically (eg USN bomber training to be TB or DB pilots but not both). My idea was to create pilot classes within pilot pools. Each class would specify a minimum skill set to be considered such a pilot and a target skill set which determines when a pilot is done training. A pilot falls in three categories: unspecialized, specialized, or trained. A pilot is considered trained if it meets the target skill criteria for a pilot class. Alternatively, a pilot is considered unspecialized if it doesn't meet the minimum skill set of a any pilot class. Lastly, a pilot is considered specialized if he meets the minimum criteria for one or more pilot classes but not the target of any.

When adding pilots to a squadron, the program has to determine if a pilot is a fit for that particular training group. An unspecialized pilot would be added to any group training any skill. But for pilots who are specialized its a little more complicated. The program returns any pilot that is that doesn't require further (or any) training for the skill the group is training based off what pilot classes the pilot qualifies for based off the minimum skill set. For example, I might set the minimum skillset of TB pilots to be 50 NavT, 40 NavB, and 40 ASW. For DB pilots lets say I set minimum skill set to be 50 NavB, 40 NavS, and 40 Gnd. If I'm adding pilots to a group training NavT, I would return any pilots that don't meet the minimum skill of being a TB pilot but qualify as a DB pilot. If a pilot qualifies to be DB pilot and TB pilot it will stay and keep training.

What makes this algorithm most difficult to implement is that we can only draw pilots from the bottom of the pool of a specific skill into pilot groups. Picking pilots manually results in a delay which is to be avoided. There's no way to prevent pilots from going to a group they shouldn't when that happens they just need to be released. But since those pilots go right to the bottom of the pool where we drew them from, we either have to switch the skill to sort or move to another group training another skill.

Anyway, tell me what you think of my idea. I'm curious if people would be interested in using this for themselves eventually.

< Message edited by Sangeli -- 4/22/2015 10:05:51 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/22/2015 11:03:16 PM

witpaemail
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I cant imagine why someone would want something that "plays the game for them".

Have fun, this isnt something I would even be remotely interested in.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 2

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/22/2015 11:32:43 PM

Sangeli
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail
I cant imagine why someone would want something that "plays the game for them".

Have fun, this isnt something I would even be remotely interested in.

Play a year in a PBEM game as the Allies and get back to me on that

(in reply to witpaemail)

Post #: 3

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/22/2015 11:47:45 PM

mind_messing
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quote:

Anyway, tell me what you think of my idea. I'm curious if people would be interested in using this for themselves eventually.

I know I'd get a blast out of such a program as this, as managing pilot training is a massive slog.

Based on the video, would it be possible to set it up so that one all pilots are passed the skill threshold, they are sent to the reserve pool and replaced with replacement pilots? In other words, the tool checks if any fighter pilots are at the threshold. Those that are are sent to reserve, and they are replaced with new pilots drawn from the replacement pool rather than the reserve?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

I cant imagine why someone would want something that "plays the game for them".

Have fun, this isnt something I would even be remotely interested in.

I don't know about you, but I bought "War in the Pacific", not "Flight School Manager in the Pacific".

(in reply to witpaemail)

Post #: 4

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 12:55:49 AM

witpaemail
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail
I cant imagine why someone would want something that "plays the game for them".

Have fun, this isnt something I would even be remotely interested in.

Play a year in a PBEM game as the Allies and get back to me on that

I have played this game, and its fore-fathers for decades both PBM and against the AI. Going back to Grigsbys original "Guadalcanal Campaign" by SSI back in the 80s.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 5

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 12:58:12 AM

witpaemail
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

Anyway, tell me what you think of my idea. I'm curious if people would be interested in using this for themselves eventually.

I know I'd get a blast out of such a program as this, as managing pilot training is a massive slog.

Based on the video, would it be possible to set it up so that one all pilots are passed the skill threshold, they are sent to the reserve pool and replaced with replacement pilots? In other words, the tool checks if any fighter pilots are at the threshold. Those that are are sent to reserve, and they are replaced with new pilots drawn from the replacement pool rather than the reserve?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

I cant imagine why someone would want something that "plays the game for them".

Have fun, this isnt something I would even be remotely interested in.

I don't know about you, but I bought "War in the Pacific", not "Flight School Manager in the Pacific".

The allies have countless squadrons that cant move from the west coast. Trust me, it is FAR easier training allied flight crews than Japs...

That being said, what is there to manage? You put squadrons on training in the rear and leave them. Theres only so many places you are going to have contact with the enemy anyways until later in the war so its not like you have to have every squadron on the front lines all the time.

< Message edited by witpaemail -- 4/23/2015 1:59:03 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 1:31:34 AM

Sangeli
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

The allies have countless squadrons that cant move from the west coast. Trust me, it is FAR easier training allied flight crews than Japs...

That being said, what is there to manage? You put squadrons on training in the rear and leave them. Theres only so many places you are going to have contact with the enemy anyways until later in the war so its not like you have to have every squadron on the front lines all the time.

As you say, the Allies have countless squadrons. You can put them in the rear training and leave them, but eventually you have to harvest your pilots or switch the mission when they have trained up a skill. Of course pilots don't train equally so either you wait until they are all at the target skill or switch it early; neither solution is very optimal. You can then manually trim pilots and add them to other groups but of course that is a very time consuming process. That is the purpose of the tool.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I know I'd get a blast out of such a program as this, as managing pilot training is a massive slog.

Based on the video, would it be possible to set it up so that one all pilots are passed the skill threshold, they are sent to the reserve pool and replaced with replacement pilots? In other words, the tool checks if any fighter pilots are at the threshold. Those that are are sent to reserve, and they are replaced with new pilots drawn from the replacement pool rather than the reserve?

It's already doing the one skill threshold check as you can see in the video. If you look carefully you see it trimming off pilots with Air >= 70. Sure I could draw pilots from the replacement pool but then each pilot would only train one skill. The reality is that any efficient pilot training program requires bringing pilots from the reserve pool into training groups as well. If all I wanted was replacement pilots then I'd pretty much already be done.

Anyway, I'm interested to hear ideas on how you guys manage what I call heterogeneous pilot pools by hand if you are one of those micro-managers who trims and adds pilots from training groups rather just switching missions and leaving pilots alone.

(in reply to witpaemail)

Post #: 7

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 2:47:02 AM

witpaemail
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It just isnt that hard. Lets say you want some USAAC fighter pilots. You go to the air squadron screen, filter to US army anad fighters & fighter bombers only. Click the "experience" column to sort the list by most experienced pilots, go to the top "training" squadron on the list. Click "pilots", then sort the pilot list by air to air experience. Then move however many you want to move to the front to the reserve pool. You can move 1, 5, or 10 at a time. Want to move 40 pilots? 4 clicks of the move 10 button...

Click the squadron at the front you want to move the pilots to. Hit the fill er up button.

Go back to the training squadron and hit the fill er up button to re-fill the training squadron with rookies.

Takes 10 seconds once you know what you are doing, if that long...

< Message edited by witpaemail -- 4/23/2015 3:53:16 AM >

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 8

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 3:11:02 AM

tbothy
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Hi witpaemail
Can you please detail what you do a lil further, Ive tried to doing what you have posted but I think I'm looking in the wrong screen

advance many thanks
tbothy

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Post #: 9

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 4:04:12 AM

Malagant
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I think you guys are talking Apples and Oranges.

witpaemail, you're talking about moving trained pilots to fighting groups.

I think what Sangeli is trying to automate is the intense micro-management that many players to do achieve certain sets of skills on pilots, not just a single skill.

Sangeli, to answer your question...I'm not terribly experienced player, but I find I do a whole "class" at a time in a squadron: i work one skill so they're all in the 70s range, then switch to the next skill. I don't micromanage each pilot, I just do a batch at a time and aim for 'pretty good', not perfect

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Post #: 10

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 6:20:09 AM

RogerJNeilson
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I play the allies and have yet to ever bother with this aspect of the game.... Am I really missing that much?

Roger

_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

(in reply to Malagant)

Post #: 11

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 2:01:25 PM

witpqs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I play the allies and have yet to ever bother with this aspect of the game.... Am I really missing that much?

Roger

From a competitive standpoint against a human opponent, yes!

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(in reply to RogerJNeilson)

Post #: 12

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 2:21:10 PM

HansBolter
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I play the allies and have yet to ever bother with this aspect of the game.... Am I really missing that much?

Roger

From a competitive standpoint against a human opponent, yes!

I have not had an opportunity to play a competitive game against another human since my UV days, but I still put much effort into managing pilot training.

As mentioned above leaving the training squadron on one skill will get that skill to 70 and overall experience perhaps to 50-55. In order to get overall experience up to 70 you need to switch training to another skill.

Most pilots need more than one skill. Training fighter pilots to 70 Air will get Experience to 50-55, but will only get Defense to about 45. Changing training to Sweep at 100 feet will spur increases in Strafing, Defense and Experience.

The same is true for bomber pilots. Once I have their primary bombing skill to 70 I switch to get their NavSearch or Recon skill up so they can find what I want them to bomb and push their experience higher than I can by only training the bombing skill.

My PBY pilots get Torpedo training as well as NavSearch.

To me all of this is simply good game play and should be developed as habit regardless of who your opponent is.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/23/2015 3:21:42 PM >

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Hans

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RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 2:41:57 PM

Numdydar
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Please explain why this level of detailed pilot training can possibility matter to the Allies? In a PBEM or especially against the AI? The Allies are going to 'win' no matter what. It may take them longer than historical but so what? Of course how many games really get into '44/'45 anyway? PBEM especially.

Now if you like managing this aspect of the pilots in the game, then great. I just do basic training playing as Japan and still seem to have fun with the game. Maybe once a month look at how they are doing and switch things around. I figured that's good enough. I certainly do not go to the details that some seem to do as honestly, a) do not want to spend the time involved and b) not a 'fun' part of the game for me. Plus if you play against the AI, you need to give it all the help you can lol.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 14

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 2:52:52 PM

RogerJNeilson
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I play the allies and have yet to ever bother with this aspect of the game.... Am I really missing that much?

Roger

From a competitive standpoint against a human opponent, yes!

Hmm, never played against the computer, not felt the need to do this level of detail, but respect your advice, will have a look when I get back from my little tour round Europe - this years' holiday.

Cheers

Roger

_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 15

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 2:59:28 PM

HansBolter
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Please explain why this level of detailed pilot training can possibility matter to the Allies? In a PBEM or especially against the AI? The Allies are going to 'win' no matter what. It may take them longer than historical but so what? Of course how many games really get into '44/'45 anyway? PBEM especially.

Now if you like managing this aspect of the pilots in the game, then great. I just do basic training playing as Japan and still seem to have fun with the game. Maybe once a month look at how they are doing and switch things around. I figured that's good enough. I certainly do not go to the details that some seem to do as honestly, a) do not want to spend the time involved and b) not a 'fun' part of the game for me. Plus if you play against the AI, you need to give it all the help you can lol.

Why does anyone put up with the billions of mouse clicks necessary to play the game?
The same reason that anything in the game matters. The enjoyment of playing.
I enjoy knowing that I am doing things efficiently, even if the effort involved is a tedious one.
If one always equates enjoyment with action rather than outcome then I can see things from your point of view.
I don't mind tedious action to facilitate an enjoyable outcome.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 16

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 3:03:51 PM

obvert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I play the allies and have yet to ever bother with this aspect of the game.... Am I really missing that much?

Roger

From a competitive standpoint against a human opponent, yes!

Hmm, never played against the computer, not felt the need to do this level of detail, but respect your advice, will have a look when I get back from my little tour round Europe - this years' holiday.

Cheers

Roger

Do you mean to say you don't train pilots at all?

It's absolutely necessary as Japan, but still pretty critical as the Allies. I've just been playing around with Downfall, and the pilot starting skills are so abysmal I can't even learn from the set-up without spending a few months training pilots.

_____________________________

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RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 3:27:28 PM

Numdydar
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Sorry obvert but I have to respectfully disagree. I do not see pilot training as a 'critical' need in the game. For either side. Can it help in combat routines, sure. But again it is not worth it to me. In other words, 'the gain is not worth the pain'

I'll bet I could play as the Allies against any JFB (even though I have never played the Allies) and do minimal training and still win. Now if pilot training was so critical, then it should mean that the Allies could NOT win unless they did detailed pilot training. Since that is not the case, then pilot training is not a critical aspect of winning the game as the Allies. Or even Japan doing better than historical (for a lot of other reasons than pilot training).

In my first PBEM game as Japan, I did spend a lot of time training my pilots up, then as the game got into '44, I realized why bother as even with advanced plane types, my pilot levels did not make much of an impact.

But again, if you enjoy seeing your pilots level up and this is a fun part of the game for you as Hans said above, then it is nice the game gives us the options. So those of us that like the details of managing pilots can do so and feel the training levels matter while those of us that don't care and/or do not see that big of a difference can play our way too

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 4/23/2015 4:27:43 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 18

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 3:36:30 PM

WriterNotViking
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This could be a wonderful tool for those who don't want to ignore this aspect of the game but balk at the sheer number of mouse clicks required to get results. It's a wonderful effort, and all such undertakings that aim to make this massive game a little more playable should be applauded.

As for those who see no use for this tool, I really have to wonder if that is enough reason to go out of your way to announce your disavowal. Regardless of your opinions, surely you can respect the amount of work that has gone into this?

EDIT: So the "fast reply" field automatically labels your post as replying to the last one before that. I did not know that.

< Message edited by WriterNotViking -- 4/23/2015 4:39:16 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 3:45:40 PM

RogerJNeilson
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Purely for the record I merely commented in the thread because I was genuinely interested in whether or not I was missing a useful part of the game. I was not making any 'disavowal'. At present I let the guys learn from their buddies - or not as the case may be. Possibly I need to check this out, and anything that makes life easier is welcomed by me.

The video really doesn't help me at all, its pretty fast and I have no idea what is happening... A bit of audio explanation would help enormously.

Roger

_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

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RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 3:53:02 PM

WriterNotViking
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Oh, heck no! I thought you raised a valid question that many inexperienced players might hesitate to ask, and answering it here would serve to underscore the utility of the tool in question.

(in reply to RogerJNeilson)

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RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 4:04:52 PM

richlove
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@Sangeli - very impressive piece of software development. What software did you use?

I agree w/ you - I think it'll be hard (probably impossible) to be able to filter the 'correct' pilot to move in the non-monotonic groups. When I move pilots around, I hold up a ruler to the screen to find the right ones to pull from the Reserve!

Have you considered pulling the pilot skill data from outside the .exe completely (like however Tracker gets its data) and building lists of pilots to move around, then acting on those lists? I have no idea if reading that info is possible... but in my head I can see the database tables I'd create and the queries I'd run to get those pilots.

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Post #: 22

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 5:46:07 PM

Sangeli
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Thanks for all your feedback! I'm actually happy to see the responses from people who think its a bad idea. I'm always interested in counterpoints. Some of them are valid too. Micro-managing pilots just gives you a small edge in a PBEM. Spending lots of time on pilots doesn't guarantee you victory nor does lax pilot management prevent you from achieving it. So I'm not surprised the people who have AARs are also the ones seem more interested in the tool.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
The video really doesn't help me at all, its pretty fast and I have no idea what is happening... A bit of audio explanation would help enormously.

Yes, I realize I just sort of threw the video out there without any real explanation. I didn't want to explain too much because I don't expect the final program to work like the one you see beside the mechanics of releasing and adding pilots. All I intended to show in the video was that I have a program that is capable of adding and releasing pilots with some sort of logic behind it. That and throw some ideas out there. Next time I make a video I'll be sure to explain more what is going on. I also have the ability to slow the program down by any arbitrary time scale factor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

@Sangeli - very impressive piece of software development. What software did you use?

I agree w/ you - I think it'll be hard (probably impossible) to be able to filter the 'correct' pilot to move in the non-monotonic groups. When I move pilots around, I hold up a ruler to the screen to find the right ones to pull from the Reserve!

Have you considered pulling the pilot skill data from outside the .exe completely (like however Tracker gets its data) and building lists of pilots to move around, then acting on those lists? I have no idea if reading that info is possible... but in my head I can see the database tables I'd create and the queries I'd run to get those pilots.

Thanks! I am using Python 2.7. Many of my programming solutions are naive and mediocre since I have no prior experience in things like OCR (how the engine recognizing whats going on in the game) but it seems to be doing a good enough job.

Yes, I have considered using the save file to quickly build a database for pilots. In fact that is currently my plan. Eventually I want to have a program that can determine where to put every pilot before a single one is added. To do that I need to know what's available and what is in each squadron. I also have the ability to create this database on the fly by examining the pilot screen in the game itself. Certainly though that will be a lot slower and probably is not suitable to the giant pilot pools; its mostly just for the squadrons themselves.

(in reply to RogerJNeilson)

Post #: 23

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/23/2015 6:06:39 PM

witpqs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking

Oh, heck no! I thought you raised a valid question that many inexperienced players might hesitate to ask, and answering it here would serve to underscore the utility of the tool in question.

Right you are, Roger raised a very valid question. If your opponent is studious about pilot training it ups his game.

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Post #: 24

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/25/2015 1:56:16 PM

Rafid
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When I first saw the video, I started laughing and said "how cool is that?". I would consider such a tool a great help. I think pilot training to be very repetitive and the only aspect of the game which is sub par in terms of return (of strategic depth) of invest (of time and mouse clicks).

I'm guessing you are using autopy for mouse control and PIL (or PILLOW) for screen capture. What are you using for OCR? I can imagine the WITPAE font to be very challenging, due to the low resolution. Is the slight "thinking pause" when the pilots screen is first loaded due to OCR of the skill table?

I think programming an algorithm which mirrors what some of the more advanced micro-managers do, would be extremely difficult.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 25

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/25/2015 6:20:38 PM

witpaemail
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

I think you guys are talking Apples and Oranges.

witpaemail, you're talking about moving trained pilots to fighting groups.

I think what Sangeli is trying to automate is the intense micro-management that many players to do achieve certain sets of skills on pilots, not just a single skill.

Sangeli, to answer your question...I'm not terribly experienced player, but I find I do a whole "class" at a time in a squadron: i work one skill so they're all in the 70s range, then switch to the next skill. I don't micromanage each pilot, I just do a batch at a time and aim for 'pretty good', not perfect

With very few exceptions, a given pilot only really needs 1 skill.

Fighter pilots need air to air, pretty much period. (yes they need defense also, but all training trains defense as well as its "main" task)
Land based bombers for the most part only need land bombing skills.
Naval bombers for the most part only need naval bombing skills.
Torpedo bombers are the exception as they need both torp attack and naval bombing.
Patrols need naval search.
Floats need naval search.
Recon need recon.
Transports need transport.

When my land bombers are up to the 70s, if I dont need them at the front, I will switch their training to something else like naval bombing.
As above, when a squadron has trained into the 70s in its primary, I will switch to a secondary skill for them, IF I DONT NEED THEM at the time.

No real "need" to micro-manage a single pilots training.

Some squadrons I train ASW from the start. All Jap land bombers with a total max number of aircraft 12 or less for example. The Helen 1 makes a good ASW aircraft after they get the MAD, so I train some pilots to put in them.

If A pilots experience is greater than the skill for the task it is trying to perform (example a 80 experience pilot with a 20 naval bombing skill) will perform the task at 1/2 his experience. So in that example, even though his "skill" is only 20, he would attack as a 40 because of his experience.

I also use squadrons to train "other skills". For example, I will use a Navy Kingfisher squadron to train ASW, so I have a handful of ASW pilots in the pool, ect. But now we are getting into the micro managing bit, but as someone else said, once a month or once ever 2 months is generally good enough to handle this.

< Message edited by witpaemail -- 4/25/2015 7:24:36 PM >

(in reply to Malagant)

Post #: 26

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/25/2015 7:20:19 PM

Bullwinkle58
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Yes, I have considered using the save file to quickly build a database for pilots. In fact that is currently my plan.

You could contact Floyd and Damien directly, but I think they had to go to Matrix/Henderson (?) and do a partial NDA and all those hoops to get access to the save file format. I think it's encrypted? Matrix has always treated the save file as the crown jewels of security. If people can play with it the PBEM portion of their marketing crashes and burns. In a game that takes real-time years to play even a hint that somebody could "edit" the save game file would be a disaster.

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The Moose

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 27

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/26/2015 4:54:30 AM

bartrat
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 131
Joined: 12/24/2013
From: USA
Status: offline

You could use TRACKER data instead of contacting the programmers, you can read the JDBC file I have done it using Crystal reports.

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Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 28

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/26/2015 11:46:27 AM

kbfchicago
Matrix Veteran

Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline

watched the video. Thank you for posting to the community and putting in the time to explore this...

Observations from my foxhole on its use;

- I manage pilots (as someone above said) in "batches", setup training and let'em cook for a 30-90 days, review 1-2 times a month, adjust from current to training on a different skill when "many" (but not all) of the pilots hit an acceptable skill threshold.
- After they hit required skill levels in all areas, either move them en-mass into the Reserve pool or move them from the training squadron into active squadrons via replacement/veteran and sqdn2sqdn xfer. Then restock with noobs and start again.

I find the most ...frustrating is not the right word, nor is annoying, but something in between...tedious maybe, is sorting through the Reserve pool for the right combination of skills. Filling a Ki45 or Beaufighter unit with guys who have reasonable A2A and also have good low ground/nav attack, etc.. Since the Reserve (and unit) Pilot screens only allow you filter on class of pilot then sort on one column I end up doing a sort on the primary skill and manual scan across secondary ones till I can find matches to what I need.

Sorry, long way around to say it's not the training or task of assigning (to me) that's tedious and needs help, its the sorting, especially from the Reserve pool.

Recommendations and feedback;

I would also be hesitant to trust any automated assignment tool (the game already has one I don't use, because I've ended up with transport pilots in fighter groups...) that did not have a "here is the list of what we are going to send to unit x, you good with this?" So if you continue to refine on your idea of finding max qualified & xfering via a script, I'd recommend you group the assignments, then let the player review to confirm.

IF (note caps...) you were to conclude most players leverage the Reserve Pool as a transit point (or would do so with the use of this tool). You may want to just focus on pulling lists of best qualified (by multiple skills) from the Reserve (vs. looking across all squadrons). Then allow players to pick (or at least remove) from the filtered list and execute a transfer of multiple pilots with one click. That would focus your programing (on reserve pool), provide players a means to sort on multiple skills (something not currently in the game), and potentially save a few clicks.

Thanks again, am always impressed by the (many many hours of) work by a few to develop tools that potentially help us all!

Kevin

(in reply to bartrat)

Post #: 29

RE: Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT) - 4/28/2015 6:04:29 PM

Sangeli
Matrix Elite Guard

Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid
I'm guessing you are using autopy for mouse control and PIL (or PILLOW) for screen capture. What are you using for OCR? I can imagine the WITPAE font to be very challenging, due to the low resolution. Is the slight "thinking pause" when the pilots screen is first loaded due to OCR of the skill table?

I think programming an algorithm which mirrors what some of the more advanced micro-managers do, would be extremely difficult.

Good guesses! I am using PIL for screen capture but I am using pywinauto for the mouse clicking. For the OCR I am using CV2 (open CV). As you say, the OCR stuff is challenging. I don't actually have a way of reading text in the traditional sense. Rather, I have a database of images that I cross-reference when reading the game in. For example, I have individual images of the digits 0-9 in red, green, and white as they are found in the game. I have hundred of hundreds of these.

Honestly in the long run I think creating an algorithm for advanced micro-managing is a difficult challenge but not insurmountable. What is more daunting to me are the compatibility issues of getting it work for other people. And much of this is due to my OCR techniques I mentioned above; if the images I have collected from my game don't match what people are seeing exactly then the whole program may simply not work for other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Yes, I have considered using the save file to quickly build a database for pilots. In fact that is currently my plan.

You could contact Floyd and Damien directly, but I think they had to go to Matrix/Henderson (?) and do a partial NDA and all those hoops to get access to the save file format. I think it's encrypted? Matrix has always treated the save file as the crown jewels of security. If people can play with it the PBEM portion of their marketing crashes and burns. In a game that takes real-time years to play even a hint that somebody could "edit" the save game file would be a disaster.

Good to know. I will think about that going forward.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bartrat

You could use TRACKER data instead of contacting the programmers, you can read the JDBC file I have done it using Crystal reports.

But does TRACKER dump everything? Does it dump pilot data? If so that will suffice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago
I would also be hesitant to trust any automated assignment tool (the game already has one I don't use, because I've ended up with transport pilots in fighter groups...) that did not have a "here is the list of what we are going to send to unit x, you good with this?" So if you continue to refine on your idea of finding max qualified & xfering via a script, I'd recommend you group the assignments, then let the player review to confirm.

IF (note caps...) you were to conclude most players leverage the Reserve Pool as a transit point (or would do so with the use of this tool). You may want to just focus on pulling lists of best qualified (by multiple skills) from the Reserve (vs. looking across all squadrons). Then allow players to pick (or at least remove) from the filtered list and execute a transfer of multiple pilots with one click. That would focus your programing (on reserve pool), provide players a means to sort on multiple skills (something not currently in the game), and potentially save a few clicks.

Thanks again, am always impressed by the (many many hours of) work by a few to develop tools that potentially help us all!

Kevin

Unfortunately I don't see the pilot tool as being as deterministic as it would require to know where pilots are going to go. The squadron commanders kind of throw a wrench in this. For example, sometimes when you draw newbie pilots into a squadron it draws in a new commander as well. Reading the pilot pools can get a good idea of pilot supply + demand but it would be unable to determine exactly where a pilot would end up. The only way to deterministically do this would be to utilize pilot selection via explicit selection (aka clicking on the pilot's name) but then of course doing that means pilot won't arrive for up to a week in transit. If you have to wait a week for pilots to arrive each time you use the tool then its not very useful at all.

(in reply to Rafid)

Post #: 30