TOAW for Training

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> TOAW for Training

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TOAW for Training - 4/26/2015 9:31:27 PM

USXpat

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This has been brought up before (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3699636 ).- could TOAW (and other wargames) be useful to military professionals - for training, or otherwise?

Consensus here was pretty mixed. Asking the same thing on LinkedIn was universally favorable - and from individuals with interesting credentials. I resolved to go ahead and field an article to a broader audience on my friend's blog while he is on vacation, with his blessing.

http://www.odessatalk.com/2015/04/training-officers-acronyms-wargames-toaw/

The blog is obviously focused on Ukraine. It faces a fair number of challenges, to say the least. I'm not sure how far I will pursue this beyond a short series of articles, though there are some regular readers of the blog who could lend a voice to the idea of using TOAW as a training tool and for other purposes.

I'd welcome you to chime in as well. I'll try to keep up with any conversation here, too.

< Message edited by USXpat -- 4/26/2015 10:32:27 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: TOAW for Training - 4/27/2015 3:07:05 AM

SMK-at-work

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From: New Zealand
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TACOPS was quite widely used by various militaries as a training tool in the late 990's-early 2000's - several had custom versions of it made for htem.

Not sure if it still is, but it was quite an interesting 2D game

(in reply to USXpat)

Post #: 2

RE: TOAW for Training - 4/27/2015 12:04:02 PM

USXpat

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Thanks Mike, yes - I've referenced TacOps, Brigade Combat Team, and Harpoon when presenting on LinkedIn. I've yet to come across anything with the kind of flexibility that TOAW has. Even asking those who would likely know, they've mostly referred to these sorts of games.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)

Post #: 3

RE: TOAW for Training - 4/27/2015 3:09:23 PM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

Thanks Mike, yes - I've referenced TacOps, Brigade Combat Team, and Harpoon when presenting on LinkedIn. I've yet to come across anything with the kind of flexibility that TOAW has. Even asking those who would likely know, they've mostly referred to these sorts of games.

Mark

I pointed the usage of TOAW III for military training out in an article at 'The Wargamer', as well as a German more detailed look on this subject in German at 'Der Stratege'.

http://www.wargamer.com/Article/3454

Klink, Oberst

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(in reply to USXpat)

Post #: 4

RE: TOAW for Training - 4/28/2015 12:30:57 PM

USXpat

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
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Thanks Klink, your notes add more to the picture on TOAW's capabilities. That Spanish AAR sort of speaks for itself, too.

One of the challenges is defining TOAW in terms that "generals" appreciate in a language they understand. Getting the blessing of other known/respected professionals - academic or military, could help quite a lot, too. There is the training side, but there is also the all source military intelligence side, too.

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)

Post #: 5

RE: TOAW for Training - 6/5/2015 8:52:58 AM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

Thanks Klink, your notes add more to the picture on TOAW's capabilities. That Spanish AAR sort of speaks for itself, too.

One of the challenges is defining TOAW in terms that "generals" appreciate in a language they understand. Getting the blessing of other known/respected professionals - academic or military, could help quite a lot, too. There is the training side, but there is also the all source military intelligence side, too.

Mark

found more resources and articles - http://www.kcl.ac.uk/sspp/departments/warstudies/people/professors/sabin/consim.aspx

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

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Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to USXpat)

Post #: 6

RE: TOAW for Training - 6/6/2015 7:14:17 AM

jmlima

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

This has been brought up before (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3699636 ).- could TOAW (and other wargames) be useful to military professionals - for training, or otherwise?

Consensus here was pretty mixed. Asking the same thing on LinkedIn was universally favorable - and from individuals with interesting credentials. I resolved to go ahead and field an article to a broader audience on my friend's blog while he is on vacation, with his blessing.
...

Several commercial games are used as training tools (to my knowledge, TOAW is not one of them). The biggest difference is that military versions usually have different databases to suit the requirements of the intended training, or to showcase weapon platforms that are currently still in testing / evaluation stage.

(in reply to USXpat)

Post #: 7

RE: TOAW for Training - 6/10/2015 10:01:09 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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I'm pretty sure the Panther Games guys have been used by at least the Australian Defence Force.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to jmlima)

Post #: 8

RE: TOAW for Training - 6/10/2015 10:36:58 AM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I'm pretty sure the Panther Games guys have been used by at least the Australian Defence Force.

Cheers, Neilster

They have/and still do indeed - http://www.panthergames.com/2014/02/military-services.html#.VXgTD0Ypfko

Klink, Oberst

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Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to Neilster)

Post #: 9

RE: TOAW for Training - 6/10/2015 10:44:40 AM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

This has been brought up before (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3699636 ).- could TOAW (and other wargames) be useful to military professionals - for training, or otherwise?

Consensus here was pretty mixed. Asking the same thing on LinkedIn was universally favorable - and from individuals with interesting credentials. I resolved to go ahead and field an article to a broader audience on my friend's blog while he is on vacation, with his blessing.
...

Several commercial games are used as training tools (to my knowledge, TOAW is not one of them). The biggest difference is that military versions usually have different databases to suit the requirements of the intended training, or to showcase weapon platforms that are currently still in testing / evaluation stage.

quote:

TOAW

The Swedes do -

THE CONTEXT OF WARGAMING SESSIONS
The examples originate from a study that was conducted among military
cadets playing an educational wargame during 3 days, as part of an 8-
week course in war science. The wargaming part was one of the final
6
stages in the course where they would test their plans and apply the
theories they have learned earlier. The cadets used a commercial strategic
computer game, The Operational Art of War (Matrix, 2005), in which a
specific scenario was created to match the orders given to the cadets.

www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:768286/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to jmlima)

Post #: 10