MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's

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MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 5/4/2015 9:38:11 PM

HITMAN202

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I no longer curse 1941 random mud turns as they are often a huge advantage to the Germans. The advantage can be overwhelming.

In many situations, particularly in AGS, Armour/Mech HQBU's during the mud turn are devastating because the Soviet defender can't anticipate them. Normally the Germans have to "wait" a turn as the HQBU is enacted. This pause allows the Soviets to construct a stronger defense. The random mud turn handcuffs any offense action, but also major defensive changes. A HQBU during this pause acts like a "free" move.

So random mud turn ... think about multiple HQBU's

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 5/4/2015 11:08:51 PM >

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RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 5/4/2015 10:28:13 PM

Callistrid

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Random weather kills all rush/exploit efforts.
Every turn, when the soviet don't loose troops during the first 17 turn, it's a gift.
The rail lines aid the soviet player, even if it's mud, so he can move his troops by rail. Retreat, reinforce, all what he wish...

So random weather is german handicap.

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Post #: 2

RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 5/5/2015 12:21:20 AM

Peltonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Random weather kills all rush/exploit efforts.
Every turn, when the soviet don't loose troops during the first 17 turn, it's a gift.
The rail lines aid the soviet player, even if it's mud, so he can move his troops by rail. Retreat, reinforce, all what he wish...

So random weather is german handicap.

Not really

Most people play

mild blizzard and no 1v1=2v1 and random weather

.03 and .04 are about 1942

Your back from the dead its a completely different game.

WitE is about 42 not 41 unless your completely unskilled aka new to game.

GHC has been major nerfed in 41 but SHC has nerfs in 42.

Read the rule set "green horn"

< Message edited by Pelton -- 5/5/2015 1:24:09 AM >

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RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 5/5/2015 2:04:56 PM

HITMAN202

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Perdoname, but you are both wrong in regards to my comments. Callistrid, you comments are more in regards to the strategical impact on the Germans of random mud turns in 1941 (which Pelton disagrees with, per above.) Tactically, it's a whole different situation. A pause during a 4-5 turn German offensive effort that allows a "free" HQBU can be devastating. I'm playing versus A-1, Random, Extreme, +1 Defense, normal blizzard and on 2 occasions had random mud turns in which I spontaneously triggered 3 HQBU's that led to unexpected success. Callistrid, I agree that Russian rail movement is largely unaffected, but ground movement is paralyzed and fort buildup is essentially stopped. As I previously stated, random mud in AGS with multiple German HQBU's can particularly be devastating due to it's featureless terrain.

BTW Callistrid.. Your game with Sapper makes my top 10 AAR list. Great AAR, even better game !!!

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 5/5/2015 5:12:05 PM >

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RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 5/31/2015 5:28:20 PM

rainman2015

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Perdoname, but you are both wrong in regards to my comments. Callistrid, you comments are more in regards to the strategical impact on the Germans of random mud turns in 1941 (which Pelton disagrees with, per above.) Tactically, it's a whole different situation. A pause during a 4-5 turn German offensive effort that allows a "free" HQBU can be devastating. I'm playing versus A-1, Random, Extreme, +1 Defense, normal blizzard and on 2 occasions had random mud turns in which I spontaneously triggered 3 HQBU's that led to unexpected success. Callistrid, I agree that Russian rail movement is largely unaffected, but ground movement is paralyzed and fort buildup is essentially stopped. As I previously stated, random mud in AGS with multiple German HQBU's can particularly be devastating due to it's featureless terrain.

BTW Callistrid.. Your game with Sapper makes my top 10 AAR list. Great AAR, even better game !!!

I must not be understanding something you are implying here. When i am under MUD conditions and, say, 17 hexes from the railhead with my panzer HQ, i am now SIXTY NINE MPs from the railhead during MUD and HQ buildup is not even a pick option in the HQ menu. Even if it was a pick option, wouldn't i be burning a HUGE amount of trucks to do a buildup (since buildup now just doubles truck usage and i am already 69 MPs from the railhead and putting a huge load on my trucks this turn during MUD).

How is this any benefit to the Germans, and how the heck are you even attempting a buildup in these stop everything conditions???

Thanks
Randy
:)

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Post #: 5

RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 6/1/2015 2:31:54 PM

HITMAN202

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Hi Rainman, here are my thoughts.

Mud during turns 1-17 for the Axis is a big,big problem.. strategically that is. Slowing territorial gains, stopping industrial evacuation, slowing rail conversion, increasing attrition ... on and on and on. A real downer or "second-rate" as Sillyflower would probably say. But as I said earlier, it can, it can be a big tactical advantage.

The summer/fall '41 Axis offense is all about momentum and pocketing units. The deeper into the Motherland you strike and the more Russian units you temporary remove from the game (ie. pocketing) the more unstable the Ruskie position becomes. HQBUP's are a (the ??) key factor to the '41 surge.
4)
There is a one turn "delay" in triggering then executing a HQBUP; a delay that enables the Soviets a full turn to move units/strengthen forts/add SU's, etc. A mud turn freezes everything expect a HQBUP or specifically a large number of HQBUP's in a single front !!!

Granted the mud penalty on MP's (particularly mech/arm MP's) is severe but .04 enables you to move a corp HQ and trigger a HQBUP the same turn !! (couldn't be done prior to .04.) Trucks are wasted, but that is not a consideration for me in executing a HQBUP; it's the tactical consideration in hurting the Ruskies ASAP. Truck loss is what it is.

Now a mud turn after a HQBUP ??? I have to let my Christian heritage control my thoughts and my mouth. That situation sucks.

My seer/teacher Pelton did not disagree with my first post. He didn't fully agree either.

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RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 6/1/2015 4:05:29 PM

rainman2015

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Hi Rainman, here are my thoughts.

Mud during turns 1-17 for the Axis is a big,big problem.. strategically that is. Slowing territorial gains, stopping industrial evacuation, slowing rail conversion, increasing attrition ... on and on and on. A real downer or "second-rate" as Sillyflower would probably say. But as I said earlier, it can, it can be a big tactical advantage.

The summer/fall '41 Axis offense is all about momentum and pocketing units. The deeper into the Motherland you strike and the more Russian units you temporary remove from the game (ie. pocketing) the more unstable the Ruskie position becomes. HQBUP's are a (the ??) key factor to the '41 surge.
4)
There is a one turn "delay" in triggering then executing a HQBUP; a delay that enables the Soviets a full turn to move units/strengthen forts/add SU's, etc. A mud turn freezes everything expect a HQBUP or specifically a large number of HQBUP's in a single front !!!

Granted the mud penalty on MP's (particularly mech/arm MP's) is severe but .04 enables you to move a corp HQ and trigger a HQBUP the same turn !! (couldn't be done prior to .04.) Trucks are wasted, but that is not a consideration for me in executing a HQBUP; it's the tactical consideration in hurting the Ruskies ASAP. Truck loss is what it is.

Now a mud turn after a HQBUP ??? I have to let my Christian heritage control my thoughts and my mouth. That situation sucks.

My seer/teacher Pelton did not disagree with my first post. He didn't fully agree either.

I get the point of what you are saying, it is just not even possible in the version i am playing 1.08.03. My PzHQ was, for example, 71 MPs all of the sudden during the mud turn from supply and in yellow supply, AND the HQ Buildup button was not even there inside the PzHQ. I checked other HQs that were outside the mud area and they did have the HQ BU button there, but not the ones that were 60-70+ MPs away from a railhead in mud. So, it was not even an option. AND, even if it HAD been an option, it would have burned up a HUGE number of extra trucks, right? I mean, it was going to burn a huge number of trucks just to get supply those 70 MPs to my HQs. But, it was not even an option.

Are you playing with a playtester's only 1.08.04 beta? I keep hearing people like Pelton talk about the changes in 1.08.04, so yall must have access to it already.

Randy
:)

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RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 6/1/2015 4:41:14 PM

HITMAN202

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Forget about the truck loss IMO. Focus on the need of a HQBUP.

The closer you are to railheads the less the AP cost and truck loss.

Rainman, this game is complex and even an experienced player struggles with uncertain strategies/new rules. That's why I enjoy Pelton's comments. He can be brusque but is knowledgeable and helpful, two qualities that few top WITE players have.

Only the elite help with rule modifications. Morvael picks the best. I'm a peon.

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RE: MUD in 41 is good for the Nazi's - 6/2/2015 2:25:40 PM

rainman2015

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I wonder why i had no HQBU pick option in the HQ menu then? It was not even an option, maybe because i was 60-70 MPs from my railhead now (due to mud)?

Randy
:)

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Post #: 9