Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

The 800Kg AP Bomb

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The 800Kg AP Bomb Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 2:24:46 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Does anybody know what Japanese A/c use it? In my PBEM game I've sunk an allied sub with one but I can't find which A/c dropped it?
Post #: 1
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 2:28:24 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		800KG bombs are used by all japanese torpedo carrying AC on port attack missions....

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 2
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 3:13:36 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		They are also used by Nells/Bettys flying from lvl 2 and lvl 3 airfields on Naval Attack.  I prefer Torps, but it's sort of an interesting trick to keep a lvl 3 AF around if you want to drop 800kg bombs, which can hurt anything including a BB.

But mostly, I have seen them used on Port Attacks. 

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 3
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 4:51:41 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Too bad the Allies don't have anything comparable; the 1000 lb AP doesn't penetrate any deck armor heavier than a light cruiser's.  I saw them bounce off both a Nachi CA and a Kongo's deck armor without doing much more than scratching the paint.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 4
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 5:45:59 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

They are also used by Nells/Bettys flying from lvl 2 and lvl 3 airfields on Naval Attack.  I prefer Torps, but it's sort of an interesting trick to keep a lvl 3 AF around if you want to drop 800kg bombs, which can hurt anything including a BB.

But mostly, I have seen them used on Port Attacks. 



As a matter of interest where is this info. All I can find is torps for Nells/Betties the same goes for most A/c, just the normal load.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 5
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 5:52:10 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

They are also used by Nells/Bettys flying from lvl 2 and lvl 3 airfields on Naval Attack.  I prefer Torps, but it's sort of an interesting trick to keep a lvl 3 AF around if you want to drop 800kg bombs, which can hurt anything including a BB.

But mostly, I have seen them used on Port Attacks. 




I have NEVER seen torp bombers (Nell, Betty, Kate,...) using 800kg AP bombs on nav attack! If you see this happen then it seems there´s something wrong or it´s a special mod. Those bombers should use 250kg AP bombs on nav attack!!! Only on port attack you should see 800kg AP bombs instead of torps being used.

_____________________________


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 6
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/21/2008 5:54:01 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The kates use them at Pearl Harbor.  I have seen them dropped by 2EB in Australia too...


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 7
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 7:06:20 AM   
jumper

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 2/23/2006
Status: offline 		800kg bombs replace torpedoes during port attack missions (I think there is only 25% chance that bombers will carry torps). You should have 800kg bombs only if all conditions to carry torpedo are met.

For Betty/Nell it means at least lvl4 AF and normal range. For Kate it means lvl2 AF and normal range etc..

_____________________________



(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 8
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 12:24:29 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Yes the 800 KG Bombs are nasty,(in lbs its 1760 Pounds)  -   And for Ship Killing its a Great Bomb.
In real world, many of the KATES used this bomb instead of Torpedos, as the AP bomb from the VAL had limited effect, However the 800 KG AP bomb did not have limited effect lool

So in AE, thay will make the Carrier Operations ect alot more realistic, we can for sure expect the KATES to use the 800KG to larger extent.




_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to jumper)
Post #: 9
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 1:09:28 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Hmmmmm..... I seem to recall that the 800KG bombs used at Pearl were special. They were converted BB shells; made specifically for battleship row targets.

If so, I can't imagine that the Japanese had hundreds or thousands of BB shells just laying around waiting to be converted into aircraft delivered bombs. BB shells are expensive to make; machined to tolerance for the barrel, while a standard AP or GP bomb requires far less quality control during manufacture.

I don't have any facts or figures, but it would seem to me that after Pearl that these would be somewhat restricted in availability and use. Quite willing to be proven wrong here -- but something doesn't ring true when flocks of aircraft are carrying them later in the war.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 10
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 1:42:44 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

Yes the 800 KG Bombs are nasty,(in lbs its 1760 Pounds)  -   And for Ship Killing its a Great Bomb.
In real world, many of the KATES used this bomb instead of Torpedos, as the AP bomb from the VAL had limited effect, However the 800 KG AP bomb did not have limited effect lool

So in AE, thay will make the Carrier Operations ect alot more realistic, we can for sure expect the KATES to use the 800KG to larger extent.






There are FAR TOO MANY 800kg AP bombs used in stock WITP and I seriously hope NOT to see any more in fact I hope to see far less of them being used (none at all should be used, except at the Pearl Harbour attack). Those bombs were converted BB shells and IIRC only used for the Pearl Harbour attack. What we see in the game is something that never happened and shouldn´t happen. The Kates should use the same bombs as the Vals when on port attack. On naval attack they shouldn´t use the 800kg AP bomb at all as they would hit nothing when employing this bomb against a moving target because they have to drop it from a height where it is doubtly that they would hit a moving target.

Sorry Sir, but when you say "in AE, thay will make the Carrier Operations ect alot more realistic, we can for sure expect the KATES to use the 800KG to larger extent" I wonder in which world you are living? Saying that as a Japanese fanboy.


_____________________________


(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 11
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 3:24:28 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		As far as I know, not all of the Japanese 800 kg bombs were modified BB shells.  The initial ones used at PH were, but there were other versions of the 800 kg bomb designed after that.  However, I'll admit that I have no idea how many of these were actually produced or used IRL.

_____________________________

When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 12
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 4:32:26 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		Players should have the ability produce these babies if they wish. I mean they can produce airplanes but not bombs for them? Doesnt make any sense at all. 

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Panther Bait)
Post #: 13
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 5:46:17 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		TME-1985-5, lists several No.80 bomb types, both AP , and GP(HE), the 800 kg bombs used at pearl were special in the since that they were from a limited production run (modified Shels), but the Japanese built scades of these with configurations that met or exceaded the capabalitys of the ones used at Pearl.

Prety Much All Japanese Carieers also had magizine storage space aloted for the types in this weight range.

Research as shown that (Original Japanese load charts for the atacks) Port atacks in Austrailia, Java,Ceylone, and Pearl all used the 800 kg bomb type, in fact the exception to the rule was Pearl, because only their did the Japanese use torpedos and 800 KG bombs, during a port atacks.

_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 14
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 5:51:09 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

TME-1985-5, lists several No.80 bomb types, both AP , and GP(HE), the 800 kg bombs used at pearl were special in the since that they were from a limited production run (modified Shels), but the Japanese built scades of these with configurations that met or exceaded the capabalitys of the ones used at Pearl.

Prety Much All Japanese Carieers also had magizine storage space aloted for the types in this weight range.

Research as shown that (Original Japanese load charts for the atacks) Port atacks in Austrailia, Java,Ceylone, and Pearl all used the 800 kg bomb type, in fact the exception to the rule was Pearl, because only their did the Japanese use torpedos and 800 KG bombs, during a port atacks.


The Kate weapons system and its torps and 800kg bombs were important for the Japanese for a reasion that might be unkonw to some, the Val and its primary weapon the 250 kg bomb Type (s), was not originaly considered by the Japanese as suficient for dealing with Allied CA's or larger war ships, the Japanese felt that the 250 KG bomb would not dispatch such a ship*, and the torps or 800 kg bombs would be nescessary to deal with them. After the Sinking of the Cronwall and Dorsetshire in the IO by Vals they changed their tune somewhat, but this explaines the proment placement of the 800kg Bomb type in IJN operations and Magisines.

* From: The Emperor's Sea Eagle by Abe Zenji


....................

Something else to consider is that the 500 kg weight class is totaly absent from stock, and in a pinch Vals could manage to get one aloft, and Judys could as well. Nells droped them on the PoW and Repulse and got penatrations.


< Message edited by Brady -- 8/22/2008 6:01:44 PM >

_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 15
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/22/2008 8:05:03 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		In PacWar (and thus I assume also in stock WitP) the 800kg bomb was inserted as an alternate weapon for very experienced groups. Any group 80 experience or greater had a chance to carry them, and the higher your experience was the greater the chance. The US was given the 2000 pounder, and I have seen a few fall in this game, although very rarely. But then I dont often see 90 experience allied air groups.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 16
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/23/2008 1:02:21 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		The 800KG APPIA1 (The Standard 800KG AP) was produced in large quantety, and used by sevral aircrafts. The Bettys who did not have Torpedo mounts, instead used 2x 800 KG AP Bombs.   This is a total Bomb Load of 1600 KG   (3500 Pounds).  ONE of the Torpedo Alternative was the IIHI-2A who had a weight of 1719 KG or (3780 Pounds), I think thay used this on a Aircraft, not fully sure tho...   

I know there was alot of vertions of it, but the Standard (APPIA1) was serialproduced for use on multiple aircrafts, the Kate, Betty, Helen, Peggy, ect. and more types had it.  Evan the Japanese 4E Strategic Bommber (Liz) had mountings for it, evan tho thay produced the Liz in few numbers, and decided not to serial produce it due to the high engine costs. (Something i hope we will be allowed to decide if we also think its to expensive to make..) 

So the Standard 800KG bomb is not so rare... the special vertions of it im sure is nother story. 



ADDITIONALY - CHEMICAL WEAPONS and HIGH EXPLOSIVE , the 550 KG (1200 Pounds) Bomb should be included in AE, this was used in great quantety, evan by the VAL! if Target Range was closer. Additionaly thay had a HE vertion and a CHEMICAL VERTION of the 550 KG Bomb, this two bomb types was both developed and tested in Mansuko, and used aiganst China as well as in Close Air Support Role. The CHEMICAL WEAPON (BOMB) was produced in large quantety, and used hevely in China as well as some in Burma.



Today Japan helps China to clean huge areas in China, to remove the remeinding Chemical Bombs put there by Japan during WW2, to read more about this see here: http://english.hanban.edu.cn/english/2003/Dec/81536.htm





(Source WW2 By Thems) 



< Message edited by Japan -- 8/24/2008 1:19:36 AM >

_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 17
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/23/2008 3:42:13 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

In PacWar (and thus I assume also in stock WitP) the 800kg bomb was inserted as an alternate weapon for very experienced groups. Any group 80 experience or greater had a chance to carry them, and the higher your experience was the greater the chance. The US was given the 2000 pounder, and I have seen a few fall in this game, although very rarely. But then I dont often see 90 experience allied air groups.


I've had a couple of AKs eat 2000 lb bombs dropped by the B-18 Bolo group on Cagayan vs the AI. They do drop and they pretty much are1 hit = 1 kill on anything smaller than a CA.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 18
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/23/2008 4:18:15 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I very much doubt that Betty's could get 2x800kg in bomb bay.

lenght:

TYPE 2 NO. 80, MK 5 (AP) Lenght 2,87m

HE, NO. 80 LAND Lenght 2,87m

HE, NO. 80, ORDINARY MODEL 1 2,83m

HE, TYPE 3 NO. 80, MK 31 MODEL 1 2,87m

HE, TYPE 99 NO. 80, MK 5 2,43m

And what about ARMOR-PIERCING, TYPE 2 NO. 150, MK 5 (1,496.88 kg)







(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 19
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/23/2008 6:43:03 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Thay did not get them into any bomb bay as far as i know.

On WW2 By Thems its on Taxi, and the Bombs are sitting on the outside of the Aircraft Bodey.
Each of the 2 Bombs are 813KG - who totaly is a load on 1600 KG.  Load wise its not a problem, the Torpedo it can carry has weight 1700 KG. Im not sure if this is the standard or not tho..


EDIT: Sorry, I think the Torpedo was 1100 KG and not 1700KG.


(See WW2 By Thems for Details)


< Message edited by Japan -- 8/24/2008 1:13:17 AM >

_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 20
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/23/2008 9:16:26 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

On WW2 By Thems its on Taxi, and the Bombs are sitting on the outside of the Aircraft Bodey.


? attached to body? if so can you post it?

quote:

Load wise its not a problem, the Torpedo it can carry has weight 1700 KG.


I think you have to do your research again...

quote:

See WW2 By Thems for Details


More specific please.

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 21
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 8/24/2008 12:52:28 AM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		You need to buy the Series WW2 by Thems, its a great great great series.
Its 30 Episodes, each on 1 hour, and all 30 about WW2.

Its made in 1950's-1960's by Thems Production (Very High Quallety and Recognised Documentry Company of 1950's-1960's).
The Series Interwiev the Actual Leders of WW2,  Leaders like Zuikov, Nimitz, Albert Spare, Dönitz, ect ect and also interwiev alot of Political Leders of WW2. The series interwiev leaders and political figures of all sides, and the only thing thay have in common is that thay had a Important Role in WW2 and still was alive in 1950's.  It took them 8 Years or so to make the Series, and its truly something i recommend you to see, as the Actual Figures is there and talking, this means its no 2nd hand information, you will here the actual individuals say their opinion about alot of different subjects.// Im not 100% sure on all the equicmant thay used, i know thay produced many vertions of alot, and i think also you are correct that the "standard" torpedo used was lighter, maby arround 1000 or 1100 KG. (I know of a link who have some Torpedo Info: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTJAP_WWII.htm ) -- I was pritty sure thay also made a hevy vertion? (But i might be incorrect then i guess) -- Anyway, You should regardless see the series, it is truly great, its very very very nice.


 

< Message edited by Japan -- 8/24/2008 1:17:15 AM >

_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 22
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 5/18/2015 12:19:39 PM   
turkey


Posts: 92
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Hey everyone. I'm going for the record for a reply to the oldest post :)
And it’s a WitP question (standard scenario 15) for all you old hands out there!!
Seriously though, does anyone know if there is an altitude restriction on the use of 800kg AP bombs? I seem to recall that the planes had to be set to bomb above 15,000ft before the 800kg bomb would be an option.

I want to know if I can expect to get 800kg bombs using Betties at 6000ft on a port attack?
Thanks!!

_____________________________

Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.
George S. Patton

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 23
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 5/18/2015 12:20:06 PM   
turkey


Posts: 92
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Hey everyone. I'm going for the record for a reply to the oldest post :)
And it’s a WitP question (standard scenario 15) for all you old hands out there!!
Seriously though, does anyone know if there is an altitude restriction on the use of 800kg AP bombs? I seem to recall that the planes had to be set to bomb above 15,000ft before the 800kg bomb would be an option.

I want to know if I can expect to get 800kg bombs using Betties at 6000ft on a port attack?
Thanks!!

_____________________________

Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.
George S. Patton

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 24
RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb - 5/21/2015 11:24:52 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		No height restriction that I have seen. I typically send in the Kates at 10,000 feet and they've usually preferred the 800kg bomb to torpedoes. I've sent in Nells and Bettys at various heights, from 5 to 15 thousand feet and overwhelmingly they've used 800kg bombs.

(in reply to turkey)
Post #: 25
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The 800Kg AP Bomb Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.359