RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release)

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/23/2015 6:50:51 AM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
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Hi Ice would it be possible for you to updated the extended part of the mod to the latest patch as Haree is no longer updating?

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Post #: 811

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/23/2015 12:26:17 PM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

The latest patch really doesn't have anything that merits any material change to the AI Improvement Mod. Or do you have something specific in mind?

As for Haree's Mod, that is up to Haree, but I would have expected a similar response. Once integrated here they have somewhat diverged e.g. tech tree changes.

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Post #: 812

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/24/2015 3:13:37 AM

Tanaka

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Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

The latest patch really doesn't have anything that merits any material change to the AI Improvement Mod. Or do you have something specific in mind?

As for Haree's Mod, that is up to Haree, but I would have expected a similar response. Once integrated here they have somewhat diverged e.g. tech tree changes.

Yes no updates to your mod but to Harees mod that he no longer updates. Ah I see are you saying that the updates only affect the tech trees and since this changes in your mod it no longer applies to Harees mod?

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Post #: 813

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/24/2015 12:13:16 PM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

I won't be modifying Haree's mod Tanaka. The Extended AI Improvement Mod is the version I play, so if I do further modding work, it will be here.

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Post #: 814

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/25/2015 7:53:54 PM

bobthe

Posts: 7
Joined: 2/25/2015
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quote:

The Mod is recommended for use on higher difficulties i.e. at least Very Hard. That said, it will work on Normal and Hard, but there are limitations in how well the AI can be improved, so the benefits only become significant at higher difficulties.

As someone who is not knowledgeable in the modding details for this game, can you explain what you mean by this part of the above excerpt:

quote:

it will work on Normal and Hard, but there are limitations in how well the AI can be improved

How is the AI limited by how much it can be improved on these difficulties? Or maybe it would be better to ask what the harder difficulty settings let you do with the AI that the easier ones do not?

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Post #: 815

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/25/2015 8:13:11 PM

mordachai

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/6/2015
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At harder difficulty settings, the game is more generous to the AI (it's like they get to play on easy). So they have more money, happier citizens, etc., all the things you'd expect on easy.

This means that despite the inherent inability to *think*, the AI has lots of resources to throw around, and is far more likely to follow the orders that the modder designed, and less likely to 'get stuck' on some issue like being out of a given resource such as cash or casalon (easy mode, remember: easier to afford to mine what they need, easier to get quantities of it, easier to build ships to exploit it, etc.)

So, higher difficulty = AI's get more $, resources, etc., = they are able to take advantage of the "smarts" endowed by this mod.

^^^ my assumptions, could be wrong :P

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Post #: 816

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/26/2015 11:16:02 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
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mordachai is correct. The other factor is the Modding limitations. For example I can get the AI to increase the number of explorers built ... but I can't get the AI to retire that higher number of explorers once exploration is complete. So some of the changes result in higher costs for the AI.

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Post #: 817

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/27/2015 5:03:04 AM

Tanaka

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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

I won't be modifying Haree's mod Tanaka. The Extended AI Improvement Mod is the version I play, so if I do further modding work, it will be here.

Yes same here your extended AI mod is the only version I play. Not talking about modding his mod rather than updating the part of it in your mod to the recent patch so that it works correctly. I know he stopped updating it many patches back. But if the only part of his extended mod in your mod that needs updating is the research and your mod already updated that then it may not need updating...

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 3/27/2015 7:26:38 AM >

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Post #: 818

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/28/2015 12:03:23 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

The AI Improvement Mod doesn't need updating, I have checked each patch and used anything interesting. Beyond that there are a couple of ideas for a 1.05 release from recent posts but nothing major.

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Post #: 819

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/28/2015 4:11:56 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

The biggest A.I killers and player exploits is bombardment and you have them only building planet shields at 5000 pop and half of the races do not even get the tech.I put them on all my colonies at 1000 at the most as the colonies pay for them at that rate.

Bombardment makes the A.I still very easy to beat in this mod.I am also not convinced about the capital ship ratios.It is very expensive for the A.I and gives them less space cover in numbers.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 3/28/2015 5:48:44 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/29/2015 6:59:08 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Thanks Ashbery. Your observation is valuable as I don't use bombardment when I play except for the odd role play game. However, you should have observed some of the AI are far more aggressive in using bombardment e.g. Boskarans. Just to clarify though ... all the AI races research the Planetary Shields technology ... it's just quite far down the order. I could bring it up the order and reduce the build threshold without much difficulty, if that was broadly supported.

With the Capital Ship ratios I was acutely aware of the extra expense so wherever I could I reduced wasted costs e.g. overbuilding planetary buildings that adds no value. Space cover is about much more than numbers. If I have 1 powerful ship that is as strong 5 puny ships, but costs as much as the 4 puny ships that would have been defending an installation, then space cover is better. Also a lot of bases/stations have more defenses/weapons than Vanilla. Most importantly I no longer laugh when an AI fleet filled with puny ships attacks like with Vanilla. I also need much greater numbers to be comfortable invading enemy homeworlds in particular. In some cases the AI actually builds more ships than Vanilla as Military Construction level have changed from being excessively passive so in those cases you'll get better "space cover in numbers" anyway.

I assume you are playing on Very Hard and above?

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Post #: 821

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/29/2015 11:39:03 AM

ASHBERY76

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From: England
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I did observe the A.I using bombardment, hence saying I put shields on all my colonies once they hit 800 mil.The A.I empires that bombard have a huge advantage over other A.I empires due to them never having planetary shields and rarely researching them.Reputation improves so fast that is no equalizer im for the non bombardment races.

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Post #: 822

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 3/29/2015 1:31:21 PM

Icemania

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Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Okay cheers that gives me something else for the very short list for a possible 1.05. I would like input on just how much earlier to put it in the research orders. If you have the time, have a quick look at the Excel file in the Mod, and let me know your thoughts.

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Post #: 823

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/15/2015 5:06:10 PM

OJsDad

Posts: 35
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

Hello.

I got the AI Extended mod a few days ago. I'm on my second game (after having got destroyed by the Naxxilian). I'm playing Extreme difficulty. One thing I've noticed in both games is that the AI doesn't seem to be doing a good job with ship design. In my first game, everything was equipped with missiles only. In the second game, everything is equipped with gravitic weapons only. In both game, I had researched fighter bays, but the AI seems to ignore these. Nor does I seem to build balanced weapon load outs.

Am I missing something.

Thanks

OJsDad

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Post #: 824

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/15/2015 6:30:12 PM

Rekm41

Posts: 561
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Canada EH!
Status: offline

What is the difference between Vanilla and Extended releases?

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Keep Moving and Keep your Head DOWN!!

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Post #: 825

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/15/2015 9:28:13 PM

mordachai

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/6/2015
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Vanilla just has the original game's races - while Extended includes Haree's excellent extended mod, with more races (total of 37 I think, with Extended)

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Post #: 826

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/15/2015 11:39:17 PM

PsyKoSnake

Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OJsDad

Hello.�

�� I got the AI Extended mod a few days ago.� I'm on my second game (after having got destroyed by the Naxxilian).� I'm playing Extreme difficulty.� One thing I've noticed in both games is that the AI doesn't seem to be doing a good job with ship design.� In my first game, everything was equipped with missiles only.� In the second game, everything is equipped with gravitic weapons only.� In both game, I had researched fighter bays, but the AI seems to ignore these.� Nor does I seem to build balanced weapon load outs.

Am I missing something.

Thanks

OJsDad

When you talk about the Ai I supose you are talking about your ship design.
If that's the case, you need to

1- Designe your own ship.
or
2- let the ai handle research and ship design for you because they are inter connected.

If you are talking about the Ai ennemy empire. they do the designe provided by Icemania. some rave will have missile focus, other will have fighter focus and so on.

< Message edited by PsyKoSnake -- 4/16/2015 12:41:34 AM >

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Post #: 827

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/15/2015 11:42:34 PM

PsyKoSnake

Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rekm41

What is the difference between Vanilla and Extended releases?

You better take the extended version.
More race, different strategy and more variety.

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Post #: 828

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/16/2015 6:13:39 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OJsDad

Hello.�

�� I got the AI Extended mod a few days ago.� I'm on my second game (after having got destroyed by the Naxxilian).� I'm playing Extreme difficulty.� One thing I've noticed in both games is that the AI doesn't seem to be doing a good job with ship design.� In my first game, everything was equipped with missiles only.� In the second game, everything is equipped with gravitic weapons only.� In both game, I had researched fighter bays, but the AI seems to ignore these.� Nor does I seem to build balanced weapon load outs.

Am I missing something.

Thanks

OJsDad

The AI for each race has designs focused on particular weapons (and other factors) and research orders that align with that. Those choices are stated in the updated help files for each race. If you play with a race focused on Missiles, manually research something else while automating the ship designs (which are still focused on Missiles) then there will be a misalignment. This post from a few pages ago should help explain why that was needed and there are some ideas if you want to change it more to your liking.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 4/16/2015 7:17:49 AM >

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Post #: 829

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/16/2015 12:15:43 PM

OJsDad

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Thanks for the information on ship designs PsyKoSnake and Icemania

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Post #: 830

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 4/30/2015 4:42:49 AM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

Any plan for an update when the new patch comes out?

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Post #: 831

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/1/2015 11:42:22 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Any plan for an update when the new patch comes out?

The patch has some good stuff but no new Modding capabilities relevant to the AI ... so unless something breaks no plans.

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Post #: 832

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/7/2015 4:49:59 PM

jadelith

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/30/2014
Status: offline

hi,

I think editing planets crashes the game with the latest patch - for example, adding a new ruin. I think it's related to graphics, since the ruin graphic, as well as boxes that say "development" "research" etc. are white boxes with red crosses on them. Soon after that, I get a crash.

I don't get the same issue without this mod.

(I uninstalled, deleted the folder, reinstalled).

Anyone else get this? I can't play vanilla, because it's not challenging :P (yeah I know I'm cheating, but I like making my home planet nice :P)

Edit: scratch that, I managed to fire up a game without problems (after a number of tries) & playing now..

< Message edited by jadelith -- 5/8/2015 7:52:38 AM >

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Post #: 833

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/20/2015 11:49:59 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Extended AI Improvement Mod 1.05 Beta Changelog

1. Patch 1.9.5.10 introduced the ability to flee at 50% Armour or 20% Shields. Aggressive races with Short Range Weapons which were previously set to Never Flee now use the new setting.

2. Shifted Caleph Special Weapons Research Technology in the Tech Tree to match other races Special Weapons, otherwise the Caleph get to high tier weapons too early.

3. Shuffled Colonisation tree design based on feedback on the relative benefits and costs of each tier.

4. The AI now builds Planetary Shields at 1B population rather than 5B and Massive Shield Projection is researched much earlier. To ensure this change does not effect AI cashflow the maintenance cost of Planetary Shields has been reduced.

5. Zenox Shield Technology is nw an optional pre-requistite for Massive Shield Projection (so the Zenox don't need to research weak shields just to get pre-requisites for Planetary Shields).

6. Added Banoserit Special Technology for Long Range Scanners to their research build order.

7. Fix made to Kiadian Research Order which sometimes meant they would not research their Special Technology.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ls3pzrr874nuns9/Extended%20AI%20Improvement%20Mod%201.05.zip?dl=0

For those interested please give it a run and let me know how it goes. It's just uploading to Dropbox now, should be 30 minutes away.

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Post #: 834

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/20/2015 10:57:46 PM

jgz

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Status: offline

I was looking over the ship designs in the mod and noticed that you have the same design for small, medium and large freighters which in the normal game would be the design for the large. What is the reasoning for this? Does the AI prioritize different size freighters in different ways?

Also, since the designs are all the same, and essentially optimized. is their any reason to not just let the AI automate designs and retrofitting for private ships? I've been trying to do everything manually but if their is no point in ever upgrading the public ships then i'll just let them be.

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Post #: 835

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/21/2015 3:01:06 AM

martyran

Posts: 22
Joined: 8/30/2002
From: Australia
Status: offline

Just had my best game I have had in a long time I got cleaned up by the AI
thanks for the mod
will have to rethink my strategy and tactics
great mod

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Post #: 836

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/21/2015 9:40:46 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jgz
I was looking over the ship designs in the mod and noticed that you have the same design for small, medium and large freighters which in the normal game would be the design for the large. What is the reasoning for this? Does the AI prioritize different size freighters in different ways?

The AI does prioritize differently. However, some time I did some testing, and while we all know the AI isn't necessarily efficient and often doesn't use full capacity, there is a small proportion of freighters that do use full capacity with these designs. I never find the private sector short on cash so I don't see a downside. Of course, the designs also add more speed, capacity and extractors compared to Vanilla i.e. the idea being to give the AI the best designs possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jgz
Also, since the designs are all the same, and essentially optimized. is their any reason to not just let the AI automate designs and retrofitting for private ships? I've been trying to do everything manually but if their is no point in ever upgrading the public ships then i'll just let them be.

Actually you've hit the nail on the head with one of the design goals for the Mod ... I wanted to play with all the ship and base design automated to my preferences if I could. While I do some things manually because there are limitations in the ship design template structure, I generally now play automated. It makes the game a lot faster and more fun i.e. now that ship design optimisation is ancient history.

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Post #: 837

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/21/2015 9:41:52 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: martyran
Just had my best game I have had in a long time I got cleaned up by the AI
thanks for the mod
will have to rethink my strategy and tactics
great mod

Cheers martyran, all stories of destruction are welcome! Particularly with details ...

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Post #: 838

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/21/2015 7:43:41 PM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Extended AI Improvement Mod 1.05 Beta Changelog

1. Patch 1.9.5.10 introduced the ability to flee at 50% Armour or 20% Shields. Aggressive races with Short Range Weapons which were previously set to Never Flee now use the new setting.

2. Shifted Caleph Special Weapons Research Technology in the Tech Tree to match other races Special Weapons, otherwise the Caleph get to high tier weapons too early.

3. Shuffled Colonisation tree design based on feedback on the relative benefits and costs of each tier.

4. The AI now builds Planetary Shields at 1B population rather than 5B and Massive Shield Projection is researched much earlier. To ensure this change does not effect AI cashflow the maintenance cost of Planetary Shields has been reduced.

5. Zenox Shield Technology is nw an optional pre-requistite for Massive Shield Projection (so the Zenox don't need to research weak shields just to get pre-requisites for Planetary Shields).

6. Added Banoserit Special Technology for Long Range Scanners to their research build order.

7. Fix made to Kiadian Research Order which sometimes meant they would not research their Special Technology.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ls3pzrr874nuns9/Extended%20AI%20Improvement%20Mod%201.05.zip?dl=0

For those interested please give it a run and let me know how it goes. It's just uploading to Dropbox now, should be 30 minutes away.

What a nice surprise! Thanks for the beta update!

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Post #: 839

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.04 Release) - 5/24/2015 5:21:09 PM

QuestGAV

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/24/2015
Status: offline

Really enjoying this mod, the gameplay is much more dynamic. My manually saved games don't show up for loading though the autosaves do. What folder does the mod save saved game files to? I don't have this problem with vanilla. I'm playing the Extended version on the Steam version of DW:U on Win7.

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 840