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State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015.

 
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State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 4:51:45 PM   
Viktor_Kormel_slith


Posts: 372
Joined: 11/14/2013
Status: offline 		After near 18 months after the game was launched, I wonder where we stay? Where we go?

I read Steve is working in Netplay, in AI in extra rules… and I feel very frustrated, concerned and worried because the games keeps very important bugs and malfunctions in several key things. I canīt understand the strong words about things like opt rule 47 or IA when basic things like naval movement, naval combat, return to base, air combat, production and repair factories doesnīt works. I was decided to report all these bugs I have detected but there are so many and it would take me a lot of time. I am very surprised that other people don īt report them.

Here is a brief summary of the some important IMO:

Naval Movement:
a) you canīt (in naval impulse) split forces like you want
b) you canīt embark units in port thru

Naval Combat:
a) I suspect but I canīt confirm it that search modifiers are not counting good because in the same situation I have seen different results!
b) Air units in transports are detected like air naval units driving the game a total crash in the air units return to base subphase.

Return to base and interception combats:
a) It is a complete disaster, used air units in range can fly to the combat, this is a serious bug.
b) The unit aboard the transports must be faced down and I think that the program ignores that.

Air Combat:
a) Many times, when carrier units planes are involved in the combats the games stops.

Production:
a) In my last game, Mexican and Brazilian units canīt rebuilt by USA, there are not in the force pools.
b) Damaged factories and oil canīt be repaired most of the times so you canīt play with strategic bombing if you want to be fair with the axis side.
c) And I donīt want to talk too much about the resource assignment system but I think is very obvious that is very complicated and slow and sometimes a really nightmare.

Well, after this exercise of a MWIF lover player frustration I just want to add a calling:

Matrix, I need some kind of hope for the game, some explanations and the commitment to fix the basics in it. After 18 months the game is not playable in a competitive way, not even in the most basic configuration, itīs sad to say but is the truth. I donīt ask miracles just the basic, something that works, I paid 100 € for it.


_____________________________

Sorry, for my bad english! "Wiffing" since 1990 to the tomb!
Post #: 1
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 5:29:37 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		I'm going to add some things to this list.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Viktor_Kormel

After near 18 months after the game was launched, I wonder where we stay? Where we go?

I read Steve is working in Netplay, in AI in extra rules… and I feel very frustrated, concerned and worried because the games keeps very important bugs and malfunctions in several key things. I canīt understand the strong words about things like opt rule 47 or IA when basic things like naval movement, naval combat, return to base, air combat, production and repair factories doesnīt works. I was decided to report all these bugs I have detected but there are so many and it would take me a lot of time. I am very surprised that other people don īt report them.

Here is a brief summary of the some important IMO:

Naval Movement:
a) you canīt (in naval impulse) split forces like you want

Bug is on the task list.

b) you canīt embark units in port thru

Bug is on the task lists.

Naval Combat:
a) I suspect but I canīt confirm it that search modifiers are not counting good because in the same situation I have seen different results!

Bug is not known. I have not noticed any faults in the search modifiers (weather, presence of aircraft and convoy points in the area). If these are wrong, we need saved games for this.


b) Air units in transports are detected like air naval units driving the game a total crash in the air units return to base subphase.

Bug is not known. What happens? May we have a saved game please? According to the rules, you may rebase aircraft in the rebase phase and during the naval return to base phase, I haven't seen any air unit staying behind at sea. Everything seems to work correct there.

Return to base and interception combats:
a) It is a complete disaster, used air units in range can fly to the combat, this is a serious bug.

I don't see this bug in the list either. Do we have a saved game for this bug? I can't fly disorganised planes into any sea area.

b) The unit aboard the transports must be faced down and I think that the program ignores that.

What do you mean? Which unit should be transported face down? Are those OOS units which have been picked up? Can you give us some more information?

Air Combat:
a) Many times, when carrier units planes are involved in the combats the games stops.

There is a annoying bug here which can be worked around by pressing the F10 button and than close this form. Other than this, I haven't seen a carrier planes bug at the moment. Or is this happening with the air component of the carriers? Again: more information is needed, especially since bugs in that area should have been fixed...

Production:
a) In my last game, Mexican and Brazilian units canīt rebuilt by USA, there are not in the force pools.

Did you include these units by pressing the button "add minor countries units" on the production form? If so, a saved game is needed, since this bug is not on the list.

b) Damaged factories and oil canīt be repaired most of the times so you canīt play with strategic bombing if you want to be fair with the axis side.

This one is on the bugs list

c) And I donīt want to talk too much about the resource assignment system but I think is very obvious that is very complicated and slow and sometimes a really nightmare.

Agreed

Well, after this exercise of a MWIF lover player frustration I just want to add a calling:

Matrix, I need some kind of hope for the game, some explanations and the commitment to fix the basics in it. After 18 months the game is not playable in a competitive way, not even in the most basic configuration, itīs sad to say but is the truth. I donīt ask miracles just the basic, something that works, I paid 100 € for it.



The only thing I would add to this is that bugs are still being fixed. That's still the first priority. Netplay is second. However, I'm also worried, since it takes far to long to fix bugs. But it's for Matrix to decide what they want to do about this.
Furthermore, I'm a little astonished that a promise to say something about how things are going was made quite some time ago by Matrix and nothing since then. That's unprofessional behaviour, I believe.





_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Viktor_Kormel_slith)
Post #: 2
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 5:41:31 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		When a Matrix big wig (Erik Rutins) tells us he well get back to us "in a few weeks" about this (April 7)...and now its 7 weeks later...I find he has very low credibility and character. If this was my company, I would fire him.

The new person I hire in his position would be instructed to give at least monthly updates on MWiF's "state of the game". How difficult can it be to do this?

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 3
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 5:58:00 PM   
Cataphract88


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/5/2012
From: Britannia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I'm going to add some things to this list.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Viktor_Kormel

After near 18 months after the game was launched, I wonder where we stay? Where we go?

I read Steve is working in Netplay, in AI in extra rules… and I feel very frustrated, concerned and worried because the games keeps very important bugs and malfunctions in several key things. I canīt understand the strong words about things like opt rule 47 or IA when basic things like naval movement, naval combat, return to base, air combat, production and repair factories doesnīt works. I was decided to report all these bugs I have detected but there are so many and it would take me a lot of time. I am very surprised that other people don īt report them.

Here is a brief summary of the some important IMO:

Naval Movement:
a) you canīt (in naval impulse) split forces like you want

Bug is on the task list.

b) you canīt embark units in port thru

Bug is on the task lists.

Naval Combat:
a) I suspect but I canīt confirm it that search modifiers are not counting good because in the same situation I have seen different results!

Bug is not known. I have not noticed any faults in the search modifiers (weather, presence of aircraft and convoy points in the area). If these are wrong, we need saved games for this.


b) Air units in transports are detected like air naval units driving the game a total crash in the air units return to base subphase.

Bug is not known. What happens? May we have a saved game please? According to the rules, you may rebase aircraft in the rebase phase and during the naval return to base phase, I haven't seen any air unit staying behind at sea. Everything seems to work correct there.

Return to base and interception combats:
a) It is a complete disaster, used air units in range can fly to the combat, this is a serious bug.

I don't see this bug in the list either. Do we have a saved game for this bug? I can't fly disorganised planes into any sea area.

b) The unit aboard the transports must be faced down and I think that the program ignores that.

What do you mean? Which unit should be transported face down? Are those OOS units which have been picked up? Can you give us some more information?

Air Combat:
a) Many times, when carrier units planes are involved in the combats the games stops.

There is a annoying bug here which can be worked around by pressing the F10 button and than close this form. Other than this, I haven't seen a carrier planes bug at the moment. Or is this happening with the air component of the carriers? Again: more information is needed, especially since bugs in that area should have been fixed...

Production:
a) In my last game, Mexican and Brazilian units canīt rebuilt by USA, there are not in the force pools.

Did you include these units by pressing the button "add minor countries units" on the production form? If so, a saved game is needed, since this bug is not on the list.

b) Damaged factories and oil canīt be repaired most of the times so you canīt play with strategic bombing if you want to be fair with the axis side.

This one is on the bugs list

c) And I donīt want to talk too much about the resource assignment system but I think is very obvious that is very complicated and slow and sometimes a really nightmare.

Agreed

Well, after this exercise of a MWIF lover player frustration I just want to add a calling:

Matrix, I need some kind of hope for the game, some explanations and the commitment to fix the basics in it. After 18 months the game is not playable in a competitive way, not even in the most basic configuration, itīs sad to say but is the truth. I donīt ask miracles just the basic, something that works, I paid 100 € for it.



The only thing I would add to this is that bugs are still being fixed. That's still the first priority. Netplay is second. However, I'm also worried, since it takes far to long to fix bugs. But it's for Matrix to decide what they want to do about this.
Furthermore, I'm a little astonished that a promise to say something about how things are going was made quite some time ago by Matrix and nothing since then. That's unprofessional behaviour, I believe.






+1

_____________________________

Richard

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 4
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 7:12:54 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Viktor_Kormel, Thank you for posting this heart felt message. Go play some games that are fun and stop being a play tester. Your mind needs a break.

I say this because your post reminds me of where I was over a year ago. No matter how much you may like the game. Step away and just forget your login info. Don't post anything more. Become a patient gamer and lurker. Just read the AAR's and other things that interest you. Make notes and never forget this could be a great game. Someday maybe.

Today is not that day.

Was contacted in a private mail to play the game again. My reply, wait until after the next official update is out for about 2 weeks before taking any side.

Viktor, Maybe in another year or 2 we can play. Until then take a break and let me pull play tester time while you get some good gaming in. We shall see how long the frustration can be held at bay.

btw, On my break I've taken time to play the following games, World of Warcraft (horde Orc hunter RP server), World of Tanks KV-1 is still my fav tank late night before bed, Wasteland2, Warlock2, Sid Meier's Civ 5, Ace Patrol, Pacific Skies, Grim Dawn, Age of Wonders 3, Battle world Kronos, Call of Cthulu Wasted Lands, Fallout Las Vegas, FTL, X-com enemy within, King's Bounty Dark Side. Total War Empire, Shogun, and more.
Those are just the games off the top of my head.

Go play a game. Take a break from play testing.

As far as a report of the state of the game and the future. Let me fill in the blank.

MWiF is coming along slowly as the bugs are found and squashed. The words of the past pertaining to the game you paid for is the same game you will be getting when we first announced back when we released the game.
Don't let the single player mode fool you that the game is finished. Much is left to do and the timetable is a work in progress as bugs are prioritized to allow for netplay, AI, Single map, and beyond.
Thank you for helping us realize how far we have fallen and hope you continue to support us as we support MWiF. Wargamers have to stick together you know. Keep posting those bugs and allow us to let you know when we know how well the game is coming along while patiently waiting for a playable multiplay game as advertised. Until then workarounds are the key. Keep your spirits up and keep gaming.

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Cataphract88)
Post #: 5
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 7:43:54 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

a) In my last game, Mexican and Brazilian units canīt rebuilt by USA, there are not in the force pools.


Did you remember to add the Mexican and Brazilian units to the US force pool?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Viktor_Kormel_slith)
Post #: 6
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 8:07:17 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline 		Dear Viktor, Jadgtiger, Cataphract88, and a person I consider a cyber friend Warhunter. I heard your pain as has centuur, I am not a home boy or a fanboy of Steve or Matrix neither do I believe that centuur is, but he has to answer that not me if he cares to, as he is the only one left on the general and the beta forums that I truly respect his opinion and judgement. One other who has seemed to vanished is my trusted friend Cad908 who got fed up with the bullcrap.

There is no one more concerned about this project then centuur and myself. We have both stretched our NDS to the point of breaking. We have both fought direction of what was most needed for the general public to enjoy the game in the beta forums sometimes very loud and clear but with total respect for each others and all views. My passion was first a workable AI that players could enjoy while net play and other problems could be solved, I earnestly felt that Barbarossa could have a decent AI because there is so little complexity with that scenario. To my fellow AI people I let you down because I was not loud enough.

I have said in another post that if Matrix was a brick and mortar store a lot of people would have been fired on Nov 7th 2013 including me. Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

I have strongly urged the powers that be to release the Fascist Tide half map, IMO very playable and not as hectic as the Global war game which I never play. The answer I am getting is that some options must be added so that the game can be defined like the board game. IMO what is killing this project [half map] is the word "Defined" Undefine the Fascist Tide scenario let the people who have paid good money play it, if things are not right I am sure they will let us know.

I will not be very popular in the beta forums but I never thought I really ever was because I had never played the board game which meant I could not find some of the bugs that they could and I spoke out about some of the directions we were heading into which made no sense to me at all but then again what does a MWIF tyro like me know.

I had some recent health changes and it has put me in a very sour mood about this game. Not crying the blues but I need to step back a little, if I can.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 5/26/2015 9:14:01 PM >

(in reply to Viktor_Kormel_slith)
Post #: 7
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 9:13:53 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		I just want this game to be finished, because I'm a fan of World in Flames. There ends my "fan" status. So I respect anyone who is involved in this game. But that doesn't mean I will not say what has to be said.

I'm addicted to MWIF, I'm afraid, as I once was with WiF itself...






_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 8
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 9:30:10 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to bo)
Post #: 9
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/26/2015 10:52:24 PM   
Viktor_Kormel_slith


Posts: 372
Joined: 11/14/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks boys for your comments.

I am very stubborn so Iīll keep testing and playing the game but I needed to express and share my worries and my frustrations with you.
Iīll report some of the bugs in tech forum, at least the main important ones. In fact, some of them (air combat for example) I have reported but is not completely fixed.

By other way, I keep thinking the first priority must be the basic mechanisms of the game and donīt disperse the scarce resources in other things.

< Message edited by Viktor_Kormel -- 5/26/2015 11:52:41 PM >

_____________________________

Sorry, for my bad english! "Wiffing" since 1990 to the tomb!

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 10
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 12:03:44 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.



I see no real disagreement between us warspite you are correct that some information should be given out as promised by Erik but what information, by the way what information do we get on the beta forums, now that is where our focus should be, maybe nothing said on the general forum about our problems but I do not hear any protests on the betas forum about lack of progress or where we really are.

Some honesty would be appreciated for testers who have worked long and hard without compensation which they never asked for. It is called common courtesy!

In all cases silence leads to frustration no matter where it lies.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 5/27/2015 1:05:31 AM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 11
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 12:10:06 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viktor_Kormel

Thanks boys for your comments.

I am very stubborn so Iīll keep testing and playing the game but I needed to express and share my worries and my frustrations with you.
Iīll report some of the bugs in tech forum, at least the main important ones. In fact, some of them (air combat for example) I have reported but is not completely fixed.

By other way, I keep thinking the first priority must be the basic mechanisms of the game and donīt disperse the scarce resources in other things.


Your worries and frustration shared with us is what it is all about Viktor, thank you for the "boys" quote, wow was that a long time ago. First priority is the basic mechanisms but should they have been cleared up prior to release.

Bo

(in reply to Viktor_Kormel_slith)
Post #: 12
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 12:13:48 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I just want this game to be finished, because I'm a fan of World in Flames. There ends my "fan" status. So I respect anyone who is involved in this game. But that doesn't mean I will not say what has to be said.

I'm addicted to MWIF, I'm afraid, as I once was with WiF itself...







I am addicted also centuur, by the way it was with your help to me with this brilliant game over the years that brought on my addiction.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 5/27/2015 1:16:00 AM >

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 13
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 12:46:34 AM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I just want this game to be finished, because I'm a fan of World in Flames. There ends my "fan" status. So I respect anyone who is involved in this game. But that doesn't mean I will not say what has to be said.

I'm addicted to MWIF, I'm afraid, as I once was with WiF itself...







I am addicted also centuur, by the way it was with your help to me with this brilliant game over the years that brought on my addiction.

Bo

I'm not addicted ... I can stop at any time ... but choose not to ... I need to get back to my game ...

_____________________________

Ronnie

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 14
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 2:54:41 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I just want this game to be finished, because I'm a fan of World in Flames. There ends my "fan" status. So I respect anyone who is involved in this game. But that doesn't mean I will not say what has to be said.

I'm addicted to MWIF, I'm afraid, as I once was with WiF itself...







I am addicted also centuur, by the way it was with your help to me with this brilliant game over the years that brought on my addiction.

Bo

I'm not addicted ... I can stop at any time ... but choose not to ... I need to get back to my game ...


I've just finished my working day. Guess what, before dinner time it's MWIF time. After dinner time too... OMG

I've to go into rehab (that's the right word, isn't it...)

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 15
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 10:14:04 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Anyone who hints that Erik Rutkins (should) be fired simply hasn't been around very long. My real "join" date is when Uncommon Valor came out, and Erik's skills over the decades speak for themselves.

Fix some bugs yes. But as a clueless newbie, most of the bugs mentioned here do not throw me. Also, I save the game a lot. However, Netplay problems are the most inexcusable for the veterans, although I will probably never play MP. Beyond that, it's all about cash flow, so my plan would be offer something that works (AI, half-maps, rules and new scenarios - take your pick) and offer a $20 expansion. I may be very wrong, but it seems like the dev is faced with "whack a mole" right now.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 16
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 10:30:17 PM   
Cataphract88


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/5/2012
From: Britannia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.



Wise words from Warspite.

_____________________________

Richard

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 17
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/27/2015 11:47:39 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cataphract88


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.



Wise words from Warspite.


Good lord what part of "Erik is not the main problem here" don't you people get. I am not his keeper here, he can and should answer these Erik downers right to their face. Erik and I have had some strong words with each other over the last several years about the direction of MWIF, but always with respect and courtesy to each other.

I am really at the end of my wits, what little I have left, what the hell do you want him to say "If I do not get some information soon such as a huge download fix from a certain programmer I am going to close down MWIF for good" It might come to that people, and I would not blame Matrix for doing just that.

In my wildest dreams I never thought I would be defending Erik, but he needs to speak up one way or the other to defend himself and Matrix if they actually need defending. This project IMO has already cost Matrix a ton of prestige in the war gaming computer world and if it was costing out of pocket money this project would have been kaput a long time ago.

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play. No one to blame just the way it is, or as I see it, right or wrong.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 5/28/2015 12:55:54 AM >

(in reply to Cataphract88)
Post #: 18
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 1:00:28 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		The problem that Matrix possibly do not realize is that how they handle their products mirrors often in how customers relate to their future products - in terms of interest of buying more products from them or not, for example.


(in reply to bo)
Post #: 19
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 2:35:38 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		We have this same basic discussion every few months, going back to a few years before release even. All you can really conclude is something that will become the 800 lb gorilla of kicking the can down the road of cliches of the past by this time next year - "It is what it is."

But yet I think MWiF reminds me of a famous old children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant. When I look in the AAR threads, I see rubber tree plants moving...

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 20
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 3:39:17 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
But yet I think MWiF reminds me of a famous old children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant. When I look in the AAR threads, I see rubber tree plants moving...


hmmm, do you mind if I ask where you're from? Where I'm from we don't have a famous children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant?

< Message edited by 76mm -- 5/28/2015 4:39:57 AM >

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 21
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 4:31:49 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		whoops, it was actually sorta a Frank Sinatra song - "High Hopes" - I just associate it with hearing it and singing it in childhood:

Words & Music by Sammy Cahn & Jimmy Van Heusen
Recorded by Frank Sinatra, 1961
From the 1959 movie "Hole In The Head" (Academy Award Winner, Best Song)

the relevant verses:

Just what makes that little old ant
Think he'll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, can't
Move a rubber tree plant

But he's got high hopes
He's got high hopes
He's got high apple pie
In the sky hopes

So any time you're gettin' low
'Stead of lettin' go, just remember that ant
Oops, there goes another rubber tree plant

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 22
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 4:40:07 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau
Beyond that, it's all about cash flow, so my plan would be offer something that works (AI, half-maps, rules and new scenarios - take your pick) and offer a $20 expansion. I may be very wrong, but it seems like the dev is faced with "whack a mole" right now.


It's not ALL about cash flow, its also about credibility, which impacts future cash flow.

All of the features you mention (maybe other than AI) were (are?) supposed to be included in the price I've already paid, so I would not take kindly to being asked for another $20; that would be a different game from "whack-a-mole", in particular a "shell game".

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 23
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 8:53:41 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: cataphract88


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.



Wise words from Warspite.


Good lord what part of "Erik is not the main problem here" don't you people get. I am not his keeper here, he can and should answer these Erik downers right to their face. Erik and I have had some strong words with each other over the last several years about the direction of MWIF, but always with respect and courtesy to each other.

I am really at the end of my wits, what little I have left, what the hell do you want him to say "If I do not get some information soon such as a huge download fix from a certain programmer I am going to close down MWIF for good" It might come to that people, and I would not blame Matrix for doing just that.

In my wildest dreams I never thought I would be defending Erik, but he needs to speak up one way or the other to defend himself and Matrix if they actually need defending. This project IMO has already cost Matrix a ton of prestige in the war gaming computer world and if it was costing out of pocket money this project would have been kaput a long time ago.

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play. No one to blame just the way it is, or as I see it, right or wrong.

Bo
warspite1

bo I don't know where that outburst came from and I don't know where "Erik is the main problem" comes from either But the game is being sold via Matrix.

This thread is entitled: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015.

and presumably was written by the OP in frustration at the lack of communication in the thread entitled: RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of March, 2014, and where, on the 7th April Erik posted this:

quote:

Hi guys,

I will post a new "State of the Game" in the next few weeks, thank you for the reminder.

Regards,

- Erik


Firstly, and as far as I am aware, no one is saying that Erik is the "main problem". What people have been saying is that when a company says to its customers that it will do something - it actually does it; it's called customer service.

This is particularly important with MWIF because of the state of the game on release, it's high cost, and the time being taken to make progress in many of the areas it fell short on at release.

quote:

bo: what the hell do you want him to say?


Secondly, well I thought that was obvious and has also been made clear in many posts. What I personally would like him to post is either:

a) an update on the state of the game as promised in his post at the start of April, or
b) an update to say that sorry this announcement has been delayed because of x and we will post again by y with further news.

Why is this important? Well for the very obvious reason that, as I said before, you have on these forums two distinct groups: a) those that either didn't buy and are smugly gloating about "how right they were" (and trashing Matrix at every opportunity) and those who wish to hell they hadn't forked out the far from inconsiderable cost and are angry with the situation and b) those that did buy, are concerned at where the hell this game is going, but are willing to stick with it (for now) and help its development as and when they can and on the basis that they believe the game is being supported.

But by falling short of BASIC customer service, Matrix are simply adding to the problems above. When a certain forum troll writes that Matrix have abandoned the game, how are we supposed to defend the position when the paying customer is treated like this? Some word - even a holding update - is not unreasonable after what is nearly two months is it? Why have so many posts reminding Erik followed on from that initial post? Well evidently it is because that post was seen as important and people are keen for the next communication - whatever that may be. Frankly if a company is not going to do what it says - particularly in a delicate situation like this - it is better to say nothing at all.

bo, having started your post by having a go at people posting here, you ended it with

quote:

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play.


Yes, and that frustration is shared by everyone hence the wish for Matrix to simply keep up the dialogue with its customers as they PROMISED to do. Why have a go at people for asking them to do just that?

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/28/2015 11:54:36 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to bo)
Post #: 24
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 11:33:16 AM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: cataphract88


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Erik made a promise that he should not have made about an update on April 7th 2015 on the state of the game post, but that is his only error because he needs information from the programmer which to my knowledge he is not getting or the information is not what he would like to air.

warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.



Wise words from Warspite.


Good lord what part of "Erik is not the main problem here" don't you people get. I am not his keeper here, he can and should answer these Erik downers right to their face. Erik and I have had some strong words with each other over the last several years about the direction of MWIF, but always with respect and courtesy to each other.

I am really at the end of my wits, what little I have left, what the hell do you want him to say "If I do not get some information soon such as a huge download fix from a certain programmer I am going to close down MWIF for good" It might come to that people, and I would not blame Matrix for doing just that.

In my wildest dreams I never thought I would be defending Erik, but he needs to speak up one way or the other to defend himself and Matrix if they actually need defending. This project IMO has already cost Matrix a ton of prestige in the war gaming computer world and if it was costing out of pocket money this project would have been kaput a long time ago.

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play. No one to blame just the way it is, or as I see it, right or wrong.

Bo
warspite1

bo I don't know where that outburst came from and I don't know where "Erik is the main problem" comes from either But the game is being sold via Matrix.

This thread is entitled: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015.

and presumably was written by the OP in frustration at the lack of communication in the thread entitled: RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of March, 2014, and where, on the 7th April Erik posted this:

quote:

Hi guys,

I will post a new "State of the Game" in the next few weeks, thank you for the reminder.

Regards,

- Erik


Firstly, and as far as I am aware, no one is saying that Erik is the "main problem". What people have been saying is that when a company says to its customers that it will do something - it actually does it; it's called customer service.

This is particularly important with MWIF because of the state of the game on release, it's high cost, and the time being taken to make progress in many of the areas it fell short on at release.

quote:

bo: what the hell do you want him to say?


Secondly, well I thought that was obvious and has also been made clear in many posts. What I personally would like him to post is either:

a) an update on the state of the game as promised in his post at the start of April, or
b) an update to say that sorry this announcement has been delayed because of x and we will post again by y with further news.

Why is this important? Well for the very obvious reason that, as I said before, you have on these forums two distinct groups: a) those that either didn't buy and are smugly gloating about "how right they were" (and trashing Matrix at every opportunity) and those who wish to hell they hadn't forked out the far from inconsiderable cost and are angry with the situation and b) those that did buy, are concerned at where the hell this game is going, but are willing to stick with it (for now) and help its development as and when they can and on the basis that they believe the game is being supported.

But by falling short of BASIC customer service, Matrix are simply adding to the problems above. When a certain forum troll writes that Matrix have abandoned the game, how are we supposed to defend the position when the paying customer is treated like this? Some word - even a holding update - is not unreasonable after what is nearly two months is it? Why have so many posts reminding Erik followed on from that initial post? Well evidently it is because that post was seen as important and people are keen for the next communication - whatever that may be. Frankly if a company is not going to do what it says - particularly in a delicate situation like this - it is better to say nothing at all.

bo, having started your post by having a go at people posting here, you ended it with

quote:

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play.


Yes, and that frustration is shared by everyone hence the wish for Matrix to simply keep up the dialogue with its customers as they PROMISED to do. Why have a go at people for asking them to do just that?


Well said, Mr. Warspite. Well done...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 25
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 11:38:54 AM   
NielsJuel

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/5/2015
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Donīt know if you refer to me, but if you do iīll live with it.
But if writing "Erik Rutins failure to give a state of the game March 2015 despite his promise to do so, in my opinion also definitely marks the end of Matrix games interest in the game as they have moved their focus to other games" makes me a forum troll, then iīm a forum troll.
I am only disappointed that Erik Rutins didnīt deliver on his promise, and speculated on why.
And yes my conclusion is that MWiF is not high on the list of priorities for him and yes I am also frustrated.
By the way I am in the group that forked out.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 26
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 11:46:48 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NielsJuel

Donīt know if you refer to me, but if you do iīll live with it.
But if writing "Erik Rutins failure to give a state of the game March 2015 despite his promise to do so, in my opinion also definitely marks the end of Matrix games interest in the game as they have moved their focus to other games" makes me a forum troll, then iīm a forum troll.
I am only disappointed that Erik Rutins didnīt deliver on his promise, and speculated on why.
And yes my conclusion is that MWiF is not high on the list of priorities for him and yes I am also frustrated.
By the way I am in the group that forked out.

warspite1

Edit: Can't be bothered. For the record no, I am not insinuating you are a troll and no idea why you thought that.....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/28/2015 1:09:29 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to NielsJuel)
Post #: 27
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 12:41:48 PM   
NielsJuel

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/5/2015
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sorry, it was just that you mentioned a certain forum troll that wrote that Matrix had abandoned the game. It sounded similar to what I wrote.
Im just disappointed and frustrated and maybe a little touchy and thin skinned, sorry about that.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 28
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 1:24:45 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NielsJuel

Sorry, it was just that you mentioned a certain forum troll that wrote that Matrix had abandoned the game. It sounded similar to what I wrote.
Im just disappointed and frustrated and maybe a little touchy and thin skinned, sorry about that.


Let me say that you are definitely not the "certain forum troll". You've simply expressed your opinion. And no "sorry" isn't needed.

But I don't believe Matrix have completely abandoned the game. I don't think they will do so when there are still patches coming out. Don't forget: they've paid the costs for the production of the books en discs. And what are the costs of maintaining a server and some storage space? That's peanuts compared to the first investments.

Now, personally, I also believe that they are depending on the programmer to see how things will develop. This is understandable, since it is a one man show. There isn't a team of developers behind this game. So the only thing Matrix can say is: "please read the monthly reports of the programmer. We haven't got anything else to add".

But that they haven't done so, is very disappointing, I believe, since they've made a promise. It's almost an insult to the customers IMHO...

Things are improving with MWIF, but the speed of these improvements isn't there. Now that doesn't mean Steve isn't working as fast as he can, but the code seems to be pretty stubborn at the moment...


_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to NielsJuel)
Post #: 29
RE: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015. - 5/28/2015 1:45:44 PM   
cfc20045

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 2/19/2014
From: UK
Status: offline 		For the majority of this little project I've been quietly watching from afar, all the way back to when Steve first got involved. I eagerly bought the game upon release and have for the most part enjoyed my playing experience and therefore have continued to patiently wait for bug fixes and improvements to stability. I must however admit to becoming rather disillusioned whilst playing the latest (official) release v1.3.3.0 and I seem to have encountered more bugs and crashes than ever before! To be fair this may be in part be to my better understanding of the rules and what to expect as well as playing with a lot more of the optional rules. However I do think that we are now at a crossroads and decisions need to be made about the future (if any) of the games development. For example is all the recent work on NetPlay worthwhile? I don't see any attempts or examples of anybody attempting to play via NetPlay! Surely it would make more sense to get solitaire working without major issues first, each new version seems to introduce new bugs to the solitaire play, with this in mind, would it not make sense to develop two versions separately from one another, one solitaire and one for NetPlay i.e Steve could work on the Netplay bugs without impacting Solitaire players. Obviously in an ideal world this wouldn't be necessary but as we all know this isn't an ideal world.

_____________________________

“My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat, situation excellent. I attack.”

~ Ferdinand Foch

(in reply to NielsJuel)
Post #: 30
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