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Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 1:48:51 PM   
pandoraefretum

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 9/27/2013
Status: offline 		Harpoon Strategy Guide

Scanning : I have reached scanning of page 230 of Harpoon II : The Official Strategy Guide
I find this book very helpful ; but it has become difficult to find a hard copy.
When I finish, would some kind soul please convert it into a pdf ? Thanks and enjoy the read

Roland

< Message edited by pandoraefretum -- 10/6/2019 3:20:14 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 2:09:26 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		It's a good starter primer for Command. I recommend that and the rules to Harpoon 4 as beginning reading for new players.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 2:42:30 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Haven't looked at it in years but it may be applicable. It's not written about our game or models though so just for the high level stuff.

I think Harpoon 4 is a great game but the amount of computations to complete a turn are cumbersome and not really attractive to new board gamers. I would suggest the NWS games instead. They get it

Mike

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 3:51:05 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
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Status: offline 		The main reason I start with those two resources is to provide a good basis of understanding of naval sensors and weapons. However I haven't played the NWS games.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 5:19:06 PM   
Marder


Posts: 242
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Status: offline 		wow thanks

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 7:06:52 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

The main reason I start with those two resources is to provide a good basis of understanding of naval sensors and weapons. However I haven't played the NWS games.


Yeah it's also a way for you to needle us given our past history with those folks. We get it, you got us. Now listen to our silence

Mike


< Message edited by mikmyk -- 5/30/2015 8:14:51 PM >

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 11:40:01 PM   
Primarchx


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Status: offline 		Huh? Not my intent, Mike. Honest.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 11:49:10 PM   
pandoraefretum

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 9/27/2013
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BUT couldn't this book be re-written / re-worked relatively quickly for Command ?

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/30/2015 11:59:00 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pandoraefretum

Nor mine,

BUT couldn't this book be re-written / re-worked relatively quickly for Command ?



A static book/manual doesn't make sense because we update the game so much. We've been looking at easy ways to create a living manual that we can grow with the game. Nowadays you do all sorts of neat things from video to pdf print etc. The catch is the time and effort involved in doing this (dev game or dev webapp etc).

Mike

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 12:24:08 AM   
pandoraefretum

 

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Status: offline 		Well, I was thinking a keen player with experience could do it, rather than the Developers (who are already doing enough). I'd almost have a go myself, except wait, I'm not really an Authority on Naval Warfare and have no Naval background... BUT surely someone could give it a go ?! Maybe, as in the original book, 2 people could co-Author such a work ?

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 1:04:26 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Its a lot to ask people to do and I firmly think it should be a group effort between the devs and avid players to be any good. The developers explain models and how things work and the players explain how to use them. Its similar to a dev and sys analyst pairings we see in our day jobs. I also think we're unique in that both Warfaresims and our players have a buttload more programming, web and social networking skills than most gaming communities so we'd just do an amazing job.

If only we had the time....

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 5/31/2015 1:11:14 PM >

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 1:19:00 AM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

Huh? Not my intent, Mike. Honest.


Okay. Sorry. Very much a kneejerk reaction on my part. Given whats going on in Poonland these days I can't tell if people are sincere or its just some muppet trying to tear us down for you know, daring to develop a good game. Best to just ice the sucker and walk away.

M

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 3:33:34 AM   
Sakai007


Posts: 279
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline 		lol, shoot first, ask questions later, just like my SAG's..... :) Command's development really highlights the problems in creating a written manual for a game of this scope and complexity. I remember my Falcon 4.0 binder/manual....that was over 400 pages for 1 aircraft! A community effort is the only way to go. Personally, if people are going to put the effort in, it makes way more sense to tack on the the great stuff Baloogan has already done. Listing every single platform in the DB really ought to be the hard part, and that's done already. General functions and tactics will likely work best. The number of different situations one might find in Command is infinite, so trying to account for every situation is a fools errand.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 12:02:33 PM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		There is already a wiki, why not just use that and keep help keep it updated.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 12:31:18 PM   
Noldofinwe

 

Posts: 37
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Status: offline 		What might be an idea is to generate documentation of all the platforms ingame, a bit like Javadoc and to generate a wiki from it. This allows players to refer to it in guides. But a big part of the game of course is the database, so that might be a bit of a copy and I'm not sure if you guys want to publish that.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 12:46:16 PM   
Rongor

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noldofinwe

What might be an idea is to generate documentation of all the platforms ingame, a bit like Javadoc and to generate a wiki from it. This allows players to refer to it in guides. But a big part of the game of course is the database, so that might be a bit of a copy and I'm not sure if you guys want to publish that.

The DB is already accessible online as integrated part of the wiki featured at baloogancampaign.com

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 1:20:05 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

There is already a wiki, why not just use that and keep help keep it updated.


Yeah that's the solution that Baloogan graciously put in place. Catch is while being in place for over a year only the cool/fun stuff got populated into it (OOB's, db's etc) but the boring, inane, click here,do that, this is how this works hasn't made it yet. That's really the problem we need to solve.

Keep in mind I'm not really complaining. I get why it hasn't been approached. Manual writing is a grueling, mind numbing process that is right up there with doing you're taxes.

Right now I think the most valuable resources available are: active participation on the forum (us and community); the existing manual and web page updates, Baloogan's and other's video collections and a number of great articles posted there and on the warfaresims's page. Coiler's work stands out.

Need to work out a method and a possible platform that really ties all this great stuff together. Need the player to find exactly what they're looking for. Need us to be able to know what will be looked for. Need a way to do all this that doesn't completely suck up our dev time and player's game time.

Maybe Hooli has a solution

Mike


< Message edited by mikmyk -- 5/31/2015 2:22:26 PM >

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 1:54:48 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think the real issue is people not taking advantage of what is already available. There are great official and community resources available. They are not prominently displayed on the forum, but even a little searching will get most of what you want. This game is not one you can stroll into and have everything handed to you. I think the preference that has come out from the community is have the devs focus on game development and community members will take care of the other stuff.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 5:06:44 PM   
Noldofinwe

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/15/2015
Status: offline 		I would also want to add that as a new player the game is quite difficult to get into. There are 3 tutorial missions, and I know some scenario's are more manageable than others, but something that would help to get into the game would be a string of scenarios or a campaign if you will that teaches the gameplay and that adds context to the individual scenarios. That might also help attract new players for who the learning curve might be to steep otherwise.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 5:16:36 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah we're looking at adding a new air tutorial soonish. Lots has changed and the original one is pretty difficult.

Mike

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 5:36:44 PM   
Noldofinwe

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/15/2015
Status: offline 		Chop them up in multiple smaller focused ones, perhaps even add a very basic one about movement and how to find stuff in the interface. Also use smaller amounts of text, and perhaps its better to have more but smaller and focused message pop-ups.

Thats just my 2 cents as a new player, I love the depth and details, but sometimes I'm not sure what to do :)

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 5:48:56 PM   
Casinn

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 7/27/2013
Status: offline 		Or maybe just have a .pdf type of pop up that explains the basics before it launches? I honestly liked the difficulty of the air tutorial, it made me learn things.... and played it over and over trying to beat it, which of course made me learn MORE things. :)

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Post #: 22
RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 8:08:02 PM   
CV60


Posts: 992
Joined: 10/1/2012
Status: offline 		One of the reasons I did my AAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3740101
was to help illustrate how put together an operation using aircraft and surface units. Is something like this battle study helpful to new players? I could do more, although to do it with the existing scenarios gives away some of the scenario surprises for players.

< Message edited by CV60 -- 5/31/2015 9:09:04 PM >

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 10:04:40 PM   
Noldofinwe

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/15/2015
Status: offline 		I don't mean to hijack the thread, butbut this is a good example.
Cv60, your AAR is great for intermediate players but 9 out of 10 completely new players would have no idea what they just read. No offence meant :) its just half off the text is acronyms that most people have never heard off. I still have to look upup every time if ASuW or ASW is against submarines or surface objects. That's what I meant with easing new people into it, otherwise you'll probably scare them off instead of hooking them in. Its great to learn new stuff,but you need some kind of context. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the game itself different, I just think you could get more people hooked, if there was a friendlier introduction.

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 10:16:27 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		It was and continues to be stated several times...but bears repeating...

This a game that you have to make the effort to have some background on naval warfare. There are threads on reading that helps. There are tons of videos with playing examples. But some of the basics are on the player.

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Post #: 25
RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 5/31/2015 10:33:46 PM   
CV60


Posts: 992
Joined: 10/1/2012
Status: offline 		No offense taken. I always welcome constructive criticism such as yours. You raise some good points. In the back of my mind has been to do a series of scenarios to illustrate concepts in Hughes' FLEET TACTICS and Vego's SOVIET NAVAL TACTICS books. But they would be for more intermediate-level players.
quote:

Cv60, your AAR is great for intermediate players but 9 out of 10 completely new players would have no idea what they just read. No offence meant :)

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Post #: 26
RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 6/1/2015 1:21:33 AM   
22sec

 

Posts: 976
Joined: 12/11/2004
From: Jackson, MS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Haven't looked at it in years but it may be applicable. It's not written about our game or models though so just for the high level stuff.

I think Harpoon 4 is a great game but the amount of computations to complete a turn are cumbersome and not really attractive to new board gamers. I would suggest the NWS games instead. They get it

Mike



In case anyone that owns any of the MNC games didn't know, I completed a VASSAL mod back in April.

http://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/14/modern-conflicts-series-information-downloads

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 6/4/2015 2:42:36 PM   
Galahad78

 

Posts: 386
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Just wanted to thank the OP for this fantastic initiative!

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Post #: 28
RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 6/4/2015 3:07:22 PM   
daft

 

Posts: 406
Joined: 5/18/2002
Status: offline 		Well, I'm a developer looking for a project for my off hours... And I bet there are quite a few more like me on here. :)

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RE: Harpoon II Official Strategy Guide - 6/6/2015 3:08:44 AM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
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Status: offline 		Good stuff and reading here.....thx

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Post #: 30
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