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3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 4:24:24 PM

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My dear posters while we await fixes and such for MWIF I thought maybe some of you might enjoy playing 3rd Reich computer version. A few might already have played the game and maybe some have never seen 3rd Reich. The picture I am showing you is where you can download it from with no charge. If you have windows 7 then you need to "download easy setup[14.9 MB]".

If you do not want to pay any charges you have to use their download speed that is free. My download speed was 5.4kb a second from their server, it takes awhile to download. My verizon download speed is 3.5 mega bytes a second big difference HuH!

Version 1.38 is already installed in the easy setup[14.9MB]

Bo

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< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2015 6:51:19 PM >

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 4:38:18 PM

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This is the initial setup with the invasion of Poland, either side can be played by the computer or you can play both sides with no AI. I have not played it for years and either I am very rusty [impossible] or the AI is very good as I am getting my rear end smashed to bits.

The only objection I have to the game is the AI computer speed during it's move, It is lighting fast, now that is good and bad, good if you want to get to your move quickly, but not so good because you might have missed something due to the speed of the AI move especially in the naval moves.

The units you see below were taken from my computer at the start of the game.

German units 3-3 are infantry units attack power of 3 and hex moves of up to and including 3. German armored units are attack power of 4 and movement of 6. The biggest part of the game at least for me if I am the Germans is the speed of the Panzer's and their ability to envelope enemy units and cut off their supply which if they can not be resupplied, they are destroyed.

German air units have an attack power of 5 and a range of 4. Polish units a light tan. To the right of the screen are Russian units.

It is a beer and pretzel game, my favorite word for fast games with just a few rules. The manual is adequate to say the least, all you need to know to play the game. To play it well Hmmm!

There might be a way of slowing down the computer move but I am not to good at setting that up.

If you decide to download it I hope you will enjoy it as a diversion.

Bo

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< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2015 6:16:11 PM >

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 5:06:09 PM

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To the purists of 3rd Reich you can also use this color which is the original map.

Bo

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< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2015 6:07:10 PM >

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 5:08:27 PM

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This the large version of the map. there is only two sizes and I am showing both but it still works well.

Bo

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< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2015 6:09:48 PM >

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 5:59:00 PM

Centuur

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I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 6:36:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

I thought is was easy when I first played it many years ago but since then it seems the 1.38 patch has helped the game somewhat. One thing the AI computer does well is to calculate the attack odds to perfection, of course the die roll can change all plans of mice and men

Just thought some players might be interested in seeing an old game played on their computers.

Lets face it, what it's not is MWIF that is for sure, I called it what it is a beer and pretzel game but some players might find it has a lot of salt on the pretzel part

But after playing some other Matrix's games [carriers at war etc] this game shines compared to them.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2015 7:39:46 PM >

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 11:03:37 PM

alexvand

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I first picked up a copy of this game in the board game version at a garage sale for $1.

I liked it so much that I had to buy a copy of the 3rd edition game.

But when I went off to college and mentioned to someone there that I played 3rd Reich, they introduced me to WiF. There was no competition.

I even tried a couple of games of Advanced 3rd Reich with the Rising Sun expansion, but it just doesn't hold a candle to WiF.

(My most annoying memory is putting one single unit out of place in my defense of Russia which led to a massive blitz attack that wiped Russia out of the game in 1941. Not a fun way to lose.)

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 11:11:52 PM

Twisted1

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Advance 3rd Reich was really, really bad.

The new one, John Prado's Third Reich is really really good for a board game. Does it compare to WiF? Not really. I love both. JP's 3rd Reich can be played in a week end.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2904/john-prados-third-reich

Can this version of computer 3rd Reich be played using Teamveiwer? Now that would be really cool with 5 players....

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/1/2015 11:37:46 PM

joshuamnave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

Unlikely. The C 128 went out of production in 1989. The computer version of 3rd Reich was released in 1996. Even if you found a way to install an upgraded version of MS-DOS onto an old C 128 I doubt it would have either the processing power or the RAM needed to run it.

The biggest drawback to the 3rd Reich computer game is that it was released several years after Advanced Third Reich (1992), the greatly improved version of the board game. An entire generation of wargamers (including me) grew up on A3R and had little or no interest in playing a computer game version of a board game that was essentially obsolete.

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 3:08:50 AM

juntoalmar

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I love 3R, and it's been my favorite wargame until I discovered MWiF.

But, what is a "beer and pretzels" game? One with easier rule set? Will chess be such a game? Some people spend days just to move one piece. I think simplicity of rules doesn't make less fun, or deep to play, not necessarily, IMHO.

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 3:22:10 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twisted1

Advance 3rd Reich was really, really bad.

The new one, John Prado's Third Reich is really really good for a board game. Does it compare to WiF? Not really. I love both. JP's 3rd Reich can be played in a week end.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2904/john-prados-third-reich

Can this version of computer 3rd Reich be played using Teamveiwer? Now that would be really cool with 5 players....

Anything can be played by multiple players using Teamviewer.

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 3:26:23 AM

CrusssDaddy

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Bo: Can you go into a little detail how production works in this game?

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 6:16:06 AM

belechannas

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I started playing the original board game in 1975, a year after it came out.

The production and economic system is based on "BRPs" ("Basic Resource Points"). Each major power starts with a base BRP amount, which they receive annually. A percentage (country-dependent) of any saved BRPs at the end of a year are permanently added onto the base. Minor countries you conquer also add to your BRP total each year.

Each type of unit costs a certain number of BRPs per factor:

Infantry: 1
Armor: 2
Air/Naval: 3

Major power units can be rebuilt in their home country, even on the same turn they are eliminated. Each major power also has a limited number of Strategic Redeployments that can be used to move units (including new builds) at the end of the turn.

Declaring war and taking offensives (essentially like an unlimited combined option in WiF) also cost BRPs; the alternative was a cost-free low-intensity "attrition" combat or just passing. The original game also had a rudimentary strategic warfare (submarines and strategic bombing) system that affected BRP totals.

And - one of the things that made the game very wild - the initiative each turn was determined by each side's total number of BRPs. Typically the Allies would take the initiative (getting a double turn) in 1942 or early 1943, but if they couldn't maintain their BRP lead, it could lead to a devastating Axis double turn in response.

For the time, it was quite sophisticated. The original game went through 4 editions, refining some of the broad-brush treatment. Then Advanced Third Reich did a more serious redesign and elaboration of many systems, although the basic game remained recognizable. The game is still published by GMT as "A World at War", including the Pacific theater as well. A new version, and the pre-war equivalent of "Days of Decision" (called "The Gathering Storm") have made it over the P500 hurdle and will presumably appear someday in the not-too-distant future.

Matrix Games also did a pretty forgettable retro treatment (including a compatible PTO game of its own design).

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 9:57:07 AM

Jagdtiger14

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I used to be a big A3R player with a face to face group in the mid/late 90's...even played at Avaloncon in Baltimore (Hunt Valley). Loved the game. I think its final incarnation is something called "A World at War" and costs about $100. I never got into it...was intercepted by WiF

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 4:06:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Bo: Can you go into a little detail how production works in this game?

Hi cruss, belechannas explained it better than I could have in his post. To any naysayers I say download it, it has the patch 1.38 in it and it plays fairly well IMO. Just a diversion as I do not see any other game Matrix is selling right now as being something I might enjoy.

Bo

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 4:14:54 PM

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quote:

I love 3R, and it's been my favorite wargame until I discovered MWiF.

Are you referring to the board game or the computer game that I show on the posts?

To me beer and pretzel games are games that can be played to conclusion in a few nights and are not very complicated rules wise. These are games for people like me, it wasn't until MWIF came along in the last few years that I actually got interested in more deeper military games. I believe that others and myself like to get right into a game without spending hours upon hours reading rules and then rereading them.

MWIF with all of it's troubles takes a lot of the rule reading away through the ability of the computer to do the rules for you. You still need to know the basic concept of the game and the way it is played though.

Bo

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 4:24:26 PM

CrusssDaddy

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Thanks bel and bo. As an experienced player, how long does a game typically take playing one side against the computer?

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 4:37:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Thanks bel and bo. As an experienced player, how long does a game typically take playing one side against the computer?

cruss I just started to play it for the first time in years, my sons had the board game and I played them once in a while but they got into ASL and that was the end of me playing them.

The game involves some strategy but more in calculating the odds for attacks, if the computer AI has any faults, calculating odds is not one of them as you might guess. It is played in 3 month turns Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter, it has several starting points as this picture shows.

I have not played a full game yet but a turn could take as little as a few minutes to maybe 20 minutes most of that by the human player. I would estimate that the computer can do it's move from 30 seconds and a more complicated move maybe 1 to 2 minutes. It is actually too fast and I am trying to find a way to slow the computers decisions down a shade. Hope this helps.

Bo

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 7:49:33 PM

belechannas

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The thing about calculating odds is: combat is very bloody, and the CRT favors the attacker.

The attacker wins 100% of the time at odds of 3-1 or better (with a varying amount of losses), and even at 2:1 odds the attacker will win 31 times out of 32.

Defending units are at least doubled (on clear terrain) or tripled (on mountain/swamp, across rivers), but the game still has a chess-like feel due to the attacker's ability to plan and control the action during his turn.

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 7:59:19 PM

belechannas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I used to be a big A3R player with a face to face group in the mid/late 90's...even played at Avaloncon in Baltimore (Hunt Valley). Loved the game.]

Heh. I ran the A3R mailing list around that time, and also played at a few Avaloncons.

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 8:07:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: belechannas

The thing about calculating odds is: combat is very bloody, and the CRT favors the attacker.

The attacker wins 100% of the time at odds of 3-1 or better (with a varying amount of losses), and even at 2:1 odds the attacker will win 31 times out of 32.

Defending units are at least doubled (on clear terrain) or tripled (on mountain/swamp, across rivers), but the game still has a chess-like feel due to the attacker's ability to plan and control the action during his turn.

Agreed but is not that the case for the attacker in all games and real life battles, they set the pace except for the inept early on Northern generals of the American Civil War, you mention varying losses, I have seen the attacker win Pyrrhic victories quite a few times in 3rd Reich.

Pyrrich victory: it is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 8:38:14 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

Unlikely. The C 128 went out of production in 1989. The computer version of 3rd Reich was released in 1996. Even if you found a way to install an upgraded version of MS-DOS onto an old C 128 I doubt it would have either the processing power or the RAM needed to run it.

The biggest drawback to the 3rd Reich computer game is that it was released several years after Advanced Third Reich (1992), the greatly improved version of the board game. An entire generation of wargamers (including me) grew up on A3R and had little or no interest in playing a computer game version of a board game that was essentially obsolete.

Psst... Look at this. This version was bought by me in 1992:

http://www.gamesmeter.nl/game/13004

I played it on the 128 Amiga...

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Post #: 22

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 9:03:27 PM

rkr1958

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True story. It was the summer of 1998 and I saw on-line that Avalon Hill had converted my all time favorite game (at that time) to the computer. I believe the cost was around $45.00. I had been out of wargaming since the mid 1980's (board games only) and haven't yet made the plunge into computer wargames. I thought what the heck and called Avalon Hill to order this game. Yes, I actually called to order a game. I had done it before. The last purchase I made from them (Avalon Hill) was Statis Pro Baseball in 1991.

A lady answered the phone and I told her I was interested in purchasing 3rd Reich PC. I currently was running Windows 95 and asked her if the game ran with that O/S. She said not very well. I was shocked by her answer and my excitement at getting back into playing wargames was quickly deflated. I thanked the lady and hung up in disappointment. I think all this happened a month before Avalon Hill went out of business in August of 1998. What a sad day. What a sad event.

But, in 2003 I found 3rd Reich for the PC, installed it and played it on Windows '98. I now can play it on Windows 8.1, 64 bit using DOSBox.

However, my favorite game (AH's 3rd Reich) has been replaced. First by Slitherine's Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS) and now by Matrix's MWiF! Though replaced, I still occasionally fire it up and play a turn or two just to make sure I can. And have figured out how to play this 16-bit 20-year old DOS game on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 computer. The secret is the freeware application DOSBox.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 6/2/2015 10:05:19 PM >

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RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 9:13:45 PM

Rasputitsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

True story. It was the summer of 1998 and I saw on-line that Avalon Hill had converted my all time favorite game (at that time) to the computer. I believe the cost was around $45.00. I had been out of wargaming since the mid 1980's (board games only) and haven't yet made the plunge into computer wargames. I thought what the heck and called Avalon Hill to order this game. Yes, I actually called to order a game. I had done it before. The last purchase I made from them (Avalon Hill) was Statis Pro Baseball in 1991.

A lady answered the phone and I told her I was interested in purchasing 3rd Reich PC. I currently was running Windows 95 and asked her if the game ran with that O/S. She said not very well. I was shocked by her answer and my excitement at getting back into playing wargames was quickly deflated. I thanked the lady and hung up in disappointment. I think all this happened a month before Avalon Hill went out of business in August of 1998. What a sad day. What a sad event.

But, in 2003 I found 3rd Reich for the PC, installed it and played it on Windows '98. I now can play it on Windows 8.1, 64 bit using DOSBox.

However, my favorite game (AH's 3rd Reich) has been replaced. First by Slitherine's Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS) and now by Matrix's MWiF! Though replaced, I still occasionally fire it up and play a turn or two just to make sure I can. And have figured out how to play this 16-bit 20-year old DOS game on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 computer. The secret is the freeware application DOSBox.

Me to, I am running it in DOSBox with DOSShell front-end, several of my old DOS games are still running in Windows 8.1 with DOSBox.

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Post #: 24

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 9:27:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

Unlikely. The C 128 went out of production in 1989. The computer version of 3rd Reich was released in 1996. Even if you found a way to install an upgraded version of MS-DOS onto an old C 128 I doubt it would have either the processing power or the RAM needed to run it.

The biggest drawback to the 3rd Reich computer game is that it was released several years after Advanced Third Reich (1992), the greatly improved version of the board game. An entire generation of wargamers (including me) grew up on A3R and had little or no interest in playing a computer game version of a board game that was essentially obsolete.

Psst... Look at this. This version was bought by me in 1992:

http://www.gamesmeter.nl/game/13004

I played it on the 128 Amiga...

Psst...Zartacla wrong that is impossible centuur.

By the way I agree with every word in that brochure statement except vergelijk,

what are we comparing?

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 6/2/2015 10:28:38 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 9:33:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

True story. It was the summer of 1998 and I saw on-line that Avalon Hill had converted my all time favorite game (at that time) to the computer. I believe the cost was around $45.00. I had been out of wargaming since the mid 1980's (board games only) and haven't yet made the plunge into computer wargames. I thought what the heck and called Avalon Hill to order this game. Yes, I actually called to order a game. I had done it before. The last purchase I made from them (Avalon Hill) was Statis Pro Baseball in 1991.

A lady answered the phone and I told her I was interested in purchasing 3rd Reich PC. I currently was running Windows 95 and asked her if the game ran with that O/S. She said not very well. I was shocked by her answer and my excitement at getting back into playing wargames was quickly deflated. I thanked the lady and hung up in disappointment. I think all this happened a month before Avalon Hill went out of business in August of 1998. What a sad day. What a sad event.

But, in 2003 I found 3rd Reich for the PC, installed it and played it on Windows '98. I now can play it on Windows 8.1, 64 bit using DOSBox.

However, my favorite game (AH's 3rd Reich) has been replaced. First by Slitherine's Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS) and now by Matrix's MWiF! Though replaced, I still occasionally fire it up and play a turn or two just to make sure I can. And have figured out how to play this 16-bit 20-year old DOS game on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 computer. The secret is the freeware application DOSBox.

Cool story rkr and that is how the game is downloaded from Old Games site to a computer with DOSBox. It plays very well except for the very fast speed of the computer AI move which could be considered a good thing.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 6/2/2015 10:34:32 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/2/2015 9:38:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

True story. It was the summer of 1998 and I saw on-line that Avalon Hill had converted my all time favorite game (at that time) to the computer. I believe the cost was around $45.00. I had been out of wargaming since the mid 1980's (board games only) and haven't yet made the plunge into computer wargames. I thought what the heck and called Avalon Hill to order this game. Yes, I actually called to order a game. I had done it before. The last purchase I made from them (Avalon Hill) was Statis Pro Baseball in 1991.

A lady answered the phone and I told her I was interested in purchasing 3rd Reich PC. I currently was running Windows 95 and asked her if the game ran with that O/S. She said not very well. I was shocked by her answer and my excitement at getting back into playing wargames was quickly deflated. I thanked the lady and hung up in disappointment. I think all this happened a month before Avalon Hill went out of business in August of 1998. What a sad day. What a sad event.

But, in 2003 I found 3rd Reich for the PC, installed it and played it on Windows '98. I now can play it on Windows 8.1, 64 bit using DOSBox.

However, my favorite game (AH's 3rd Reich) has been replaced. First by Slitherine's Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS) and now by Matrix's MWiF! Though replaced, I still occasionally fire it up and play a turn or two just to make sure I can. And have figured out how to play this 16-bit 20-year old DOS game on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 computer. The secret is the freeware application DOSBox.

Me to, I am running it in DOSBox with DOSShell front-end, several of my old DOS games are still running in Windows 8.1 with DOSBox.

I am running it on Windows 7 Home premium 64 bit, is there any way of slowing down the AI movements of units?

Bo

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Post #: 27

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/3/2015 12:19:39 AM

belechannas

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You might try setting the process priority to the lowest possible value in the Windows Task Manager.

Played a few turns, and I'm impressed, in a nostalgic sort of way. I actually owned this back when AH was still in business, but back then A3R was the thing, and the AI for this 3R4 program was still pretty poor.

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Post #: 28

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/3/2015 1:19:40 AM

rkr1958

Posts: 23483
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

True story. It was the summer of 1998 and I saw on-line that Avalon Hill had converted my all time favorite game (at that time) to the computer. I believe the cost was around $45.00. I had been out of wargaming since the mid 1980's (board games only) and haven't yet made the plunge into computer wargames. I thought what the heck and called Avalon Hill to order this game. Yes, I actually called to order a game. I had done it before. The last purchase I made from them (Avalon Hill) was Statis Pro Baseball in 1991.

A lady answered the phone and I told her I was interested in purchasing 3rd Reich PC. I currently was running Windows 95 and asked her if the game ran with that O/S. She said not very well. I was shocked by her answer and my excitement at getting back into playing wargames was quickly deflated. I thanked the lady and hung up in disappointment. I think all this happened a month before Avalon Hill went out of business in August of 1998. What a sad day. What a sad event.

But, in 2003 I found 3rd Reich for the PC, installed it and played it on Windows '98. I now can play it on Windows 8.1, 64 bit using DOSBox.

However, my favorite game (AH's 3rd Reich) has been replaced. First by Slitherine's Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS) and now by Matrix's MWiF! Though replaced, I still occasionally fire it up and play a turn or two just to make sure I can. And have figured out how to play this 16-bit 20-year old DOS game on a 64-bit Windows 8.1 computer. The secret is the freeware application DOSBox.

Me to, I am running it in DOSBox with DOSShell front-end, several of my old DOS games are still running in Windows 8.1 with DOSBox.

I am running it on Windows 7 Home premium 64 bit, is there any way of slowing down the AI movements of units?

Bo

None, that I'm aware.

_____________________________

Ronnie

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 29

RE: 3rd Reich - 6/3/2015 1:49:13 AM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

I had 3rd edition in the late 70's. We played the crap out of it. It never got touched again when I got WiF. Just blew it out of the water. I saw later versions of 3R after they ripped off some ideas from WiF. No offense to John Prados, but he has to be one of the worst to write a rules book for a game.

I never did get the computer version.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 30