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Keeping it organized in the late game?

 
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Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/6/2015 11:33:52 PM   
Logiwonk

 

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Hello! I've been playing DWU for a week or two now and am really enjoying it. Usually start out pre-warp and work from there with lower pirates so I'm fighting other players and not just pirates.

My question is, when you get to a mature game, how do you organize things to keep from being overwhelmed? I use rather little automation, just for special character placement and a few other jobs and I'm finding balancing fleets, colony defense, research, exploiting new resources, new colony placement, etc a little taxing.

I use the expansion planner quite a lot, try to organize fleets and name them to remind me of the function, but I'm feeling a bit harried fighting off pirates while doing all my normal management stuff and looking to expand. Defense of my outlying colonies is especially challenging with constant raids by pirates unless I park a fleet at the planet.

Generally I prefer mobile defense to static defense, so I tend to not build defensive stations, except if I find a ultra-luxury resource, in which case I fortify that s#*t.

I think I may have expanded too quickly - I've been able to keep up with resources and cash but I'm falling behind in defense - so perhaps I should start a new game and focus on balancing defense during expansion.

Any tips are appreciated!
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/7/2015 1:03:43 AM   
Aeson

 

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As far as fleet management goes, are you familiar with fleet postures and control groups? Defensive posture is a reasonable way to ensure that a fleet more or less stays on station in a given system (or small region) and is an intermediate step between full automation and completely manual management. Attack posture is a decent way to send an automated fleet into a specific area to attack things, though be warned that if the attack target is something that the fleet can destroy, the fleet will destroy the target and then wander off as an automated fleet without any specific player-made assignments. Control groups are good for allowing you to directly control 10 fleets or important things without having to find them in the fleets (or colonies, or ships, or construction yards) window every time you want to change their orders or find out where they are and what they're doing.

As far as fending off pirate raids go, there are a couple of things that can help. Removing independent colonies (either by conquest or colonization, or if you're feeling a bit darker and have access, bombardment or superweapons) and hunting for pirate mining bases (especially over fuel sources) and space ports will tend to reduce pirate activity due to an inability to find fuel in the region; busting pirate space ports tends to become practical with ~10 size-300 ships, preferably armed with long-range weapons, though blasters can work too. Be cautious when going after a pirate space port; you don't want to fight both the station and a small fleet at the same time, so jump to a point in-system which isn't where the station is so that you can see what awaits you, and hopefully bait out any pirate ships at the station, first rather than jumping in on top of the station. Against minor pirate raiding, a small space station and a handful of infantry units (say, 3 to 5) can be effective and less costly than the several-ship fleet you'd probably be stationing there otherwise, though you'll probably still need at least some fleet presence during the construction of the station. Using a small station also has the benefit of providing your colony access to recreational and medical facilities, should you choose to add those to the design you use (these will work on any type of station as long as it's orbiting a colony; I'd suggest using either the defensive base or the starbase design, unless you have other plans for those, as a base to put over colonies to provide the medical and recreational facility bonuses before using a space port; you don't need the shipyard capabilities of a space port at every colony). Heavier pirate raiding will need a more significant response; generally speaking, it'll be better to go hunting their bases and cutting off their fuel than to try to station an adequate fleet everywhere. You may find resupply ships valuable in this situation; they're faster to set up and typically more survivable than a standard mining base over a fuel source, and you'll probably want a few fueling points in the region if you're going to go on a serious pirate-hunting campaign.

Another thing that you can do to deal with pirate raids, though you might feel it to be somewhat exploitive, is to build planetary shield generators on your colonies. Pirate ships cannot raid shielded colonies, though they can still gain control on shielded colonies (meaning that they can still build Hidden Pirate Bases, Hidden Pirate Fortresses, or a Criminal Network) if the colony is small enough and their ships are there long enough. The shields won't protect orbital facilities, other structures in the system, or ships, but it will get rid of the "planet was raided by XYZ who took ABC in the raid" spam, and it will prevent the "colony was recently raided" malus from being reapplied to the colony. Greatly reduces the fleet commitment required for a region, if you're not too concerned about losing private-sector stuff visiting the area and aren't interested in building mines and space ports and the like in the region yet. Planetary shields also offer the benefit of protecting your worlds against orbital bombardment, should you become involved in a war with an empire which likes to make use of that option (e.g. the Boskaran empires, whose Shaktur FireStorm torpedoes are fairly good in both the anti-ship and bombardment roles), and at 2000 credits per year in maintenance are about the same cost as a couple size-300ish ships or a few infantry groups.

(in reply to Logiwonk)
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/7/2015 1:18:47 AM   
Logiwonk

 

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Thanks for the great tips - I had experimented with some of the fleet postures but hadn't paid too much attention to it, will remedy that. Also, was unaware of control groups, will familiarize myself with them.

I hadn't thought to go after pirate fuel! That's great. I quickly realized that I need to make sure there are plenty of fuel sources for my guys but hadn't applied the reverse logic. Have been bust pirate stations but it seems like they always build more, or are hiding somewhere else.

Thanks for the tip off about the boskarans, they are usually high on my conquest list.

(in reply to Aeson)
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/7/2015 1:29:19 AM   
Ashery

 

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Be aware, however, that using fleet postures can occasionally screw you over with poorly timed refueling runs. You can minimize the risk by topping off your fuel tanks at the last gas mining facility before your new colony, but it's something that I had to learn the hard way in one of my previous games.

(in reply to Logiwonk)
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/7/2015 3:35:49 AM   
Aeson

 

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quote:

I hadn't thought to go after pirate fuel! That's great. I quickly realized that I need to make sure there are plenty of fuel sources for my guys but hadn't applied the reverse logic. Have been bust pirate stations but it seems like they always build more, or are hiding somewhere else.

There's probably a few pirate construction ships floating around. If you can find them, kill them; the computer-controlled pirate factions tend to have some difficulty replacing its construction ships once lost, at least unless they make the transition to a colonial empire. Long range scanners, say on purpose-built exploration ships, are invaluable in hunting down construction ships (and other pirate vessels) and, to a lesser extent, bases, if you keep an eye out, as are the jump denial components that branch off of the Gerax Hyperdrive (long range scanners let you find them more easily, jump denial components prevent them from running and thus allow you to kill them). If you don't yet have or don't want to get long range scanners or jump denial systems yet, proximity sensors can be somewhat useful here as well; they at least give you a shot at pursuing a fleeing target when it jumps out.

Building mines on fuel sites can help prevent pirates from moving back into an area, if the region is reasonably secure, though it's best to be sure that the region is fairly secure before you start building. No sense in giving the pirates free bases, after all. This will also help if you chose to enable respawning pirate factions during game setup, as if I'm not mistaken pirate factions can only spawn on unoccupied fuel sites. Respawning pirate factions are another possible reason for why pirate bases seem to keep popping up in previously-cleared areas.

Be warned, however, that going after pirate fuel sources is not a perfect solution. Advanced ships (even the ones typically used by the pirates, which aren't really advanced so much as 'better than what you have early on') tend to have fairly significant ranges; just because your ships cannot operate effectively in the area due to it being too distant from fuel sources doesn't mean that the pirate ships, whose nearest bases may be just as far or farther away, cannot, and there's always the question of whether or not there's a pirate resupply ship or an unnoticed pirate mining station over a fuel source in the region. I think pirates can also get fuel from the colonies of empires paying them off, though I'm not certain of that, but most computer-controlled empires tend to have fairly poor relations with pirates anyways so that's not usually too much of a concern. Again, long range scanners help for finding out if some of these are present, and jump denial systems help for killing resupply ships once found.

quote:

Also, was unaware of control groups, will familiarize myself with them.

LCNTRL + 0-9 to assign, press the key once to select and again to jump to the assigned object. Pretty much normal functionality for RTS games, and fairly good for keeping a moderate number of fleets under direct control. On larger maps and with larger navies you might want more, though, especially if your empire is fairly spread out and has unfriendly neighbors on multiple fronts. I tend to use them for my primary battle fleets and a couple of invasion groups, and sometimes for a couple resupply ships, but you can assign pretty much anything you control and can select on the main map to a control group - fleets, individual ships, stations, colonies.

quote:

I had experimented with some of the fleet postures but hadn't paid too much attention to it, will remedy that.

I would suggest sticking to the lower end of the engagement range settings when playing with defensive postures, at least unless you're running with upgraded Equinox Jumpdrives (preferably the final upgrade), upgraded Velocity Drives, or Torrent Drives (preferably with at least one of the upgrades). Anything less than about 25000 hyper speed is, in my opinion, too slow to protect an entire sector, unless your responding fleet is moving to something that already has fairly strong defenses compared to whatever is attacking it; preferably your defending fleets will also be able to jump quickly. With Gerax Hyperdrives and the unupgraded Equinox Jumpdrive, I wouldn't go past 'nearby systems' with a defensive posture, and with Warp Bubble Generators I wouldn't go beyond the system.

You will need to occasionally check on your defensive fleets; they'll lose ships and there isn't any way I know of in the game to automatically replace losses, and I don't know that automated fleets in general will consistently bother to go to a shipyard for repairs (which is much less of an issue once you develop repair bots). Automated fleets with a home base will however generally move to that home base if they aren't currently assigned to some other mission, and you can assign colonies as home bases from within the Fleets window (though not all colonies share names with the system they're in, as I'm sure you've noticed). Stations and colonies can be assigned as home bases from the main screen, if you'd rather select the home base that way.

One other thing, not really related to fleet posture but related to fleet management in general, is that it can be helpful to form fleets out of a single type of ship. That way, you can open up the fleets list and look around to see which fleets are under their nominal strength, look at the fleet name, and order replacements of the appropriate type and assign the new ships to the fleet rather than having to select the fleet and see what's missing. Also helps if you want to bring in short-range ships for clearing out enemy fleet resistance and long-range ships for dealing with enemy stations; if the two ship types are kept in separate fleets, it's easy enough to order the ones you don't want in system out until they're needed (or send them off on another mission entirely), whereas if they're in the same fleet it's a lot more difficult to keep the ships doing what you want them to do. While this can multiply the number of fleets you need to keep track of, and does tend to reduce the number of ships which receive admiral bonuses, I find it to be a worthwhile tradeoff for reducing the management headache when trying to figure out what needs to be replaced and for keeping the ships fighting appropriate targets. It'll greatly reduce your fleet losses if you can order your blaster-armed ships to go away from the big defensive stations and hit something else during a system assault without either messing with your missile/torpedo ships and carriers or selecting individual ships to send them somewhere safer. One or two special-purpose ships in a fleet isn't bad, but 10 frigates, 5 destroyers, a few cruisers, and a few capital ships? Figuring out what was lost when you need to round out the fleet can get annoying, and if you don't bother you can end up with similarly-named fleets with significantly different capabilities.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 6/7/2015 4:38:46 AM >

(in reply to Ashery)
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/7/2015 10:03:18 AM   
Bingeling

 

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It is hard to know exactly how your game looks, since you probably have a different playstyle and galaxy setup than I do :)

I enjoy a good pirate fight and I am not happy if pirates bother me at all after the early game. Some key methods apart from not expanding crazily fast:

- Focus on taking their bases down. If they have no nearby base, they won't bother you.

- Never tolerate a pirate mine, destroy them all. Never tolerate a nearby pirate owned colony. Invade it. It should put a dent in their income, and give you a colony. Consider going after even far away pirate owned colonies if you can afford to defend them.

- Put mines on the fuel source where you destroyed the base, as long as it is not the territory of other empires. This makes it possible to spot the pirates if they try to build a new spaceport. Be aware that pirates always put their bases on fuel sources. This is one more reason to have a mine at every nearby fuel source.

- I pay attention to the mini map. Odd colors popping up in "my" territory or where I have presence is a "pause and check". Destroy any pirate base build early, try take down their construction ship as Aeson said.

- Long range scanners are nice. Try to notice those driving across their cover. You can figure out that pirates are coming or going to a base, and use the mix of dead reckoning on their trajectory and the knowledge of resources to make good guesses at where the base is. If there is a huge gas cloud, a monitoring base covering the approach can do wonders. A monitoring base inside a large cloud can uncover all kinds of pirate activity. Monitoring bases are very happy to be in systems of no resources, since no one will ever visit after the first exploration ship of that empire.

(in reply to Aeson)
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 6/9/2015 9:58:28 AM   
Logiwonk

 

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Thanks for all the tips - I came up with the idea of placing a picket line of scouts with long-range scanners, powered by solar collectors, at stars with no planets and just have them sit there giving me good sensor coverage. It's made things a lot easier having a good sensor network. And it's mobile!

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: Keeping it organized in the late game? - 7/9/2015 10:44:33 AM   
NephilimNexus

 

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You mean you don't put Long Range Scanners in your mining bases?

(Seems rather obvious)

(in reply to Logiwonk)
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