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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 10:29:54 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

What would we do without know-it-alls? It's still jargon but totally tubular dude. Here's another. The greenies (though I approve of their purpose) could have coined a word to use to represent what they were talking about instead of hijacking "organic" to mean something it totally doesn't mean. Methane is effing organic. Do they only approve of methane from certain cows who only eat rutabaga leaves? Here's another, though it's only about pronunciation, our military pronounces the word cache as cashay. Sounds like pig latin. Cachet is pronounced cashay. Cache is pronounced cash which rhymes with stash, which is the same thing.


And all languages evolve . . .

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 10:32:32 PM   
geofflambert


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And now because English belongs to the world someone needs to come up with another language so we can clearly say what we mean, or, we could go back to Greek. They haven't effed that up have they?

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 10:36:41 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

And now because English belongs to the world someone needs to come up with another language so we can clearly say what we mean, or, we could go back to Greek. They haven't effed that up have they?


If you speak English you're already speaking something like 11% Greek.

English is spreading and becoming a dominant world language in part because it does change, it's flexible, and it adopts new words and idioms so rapidly. It's a very difficult language to master because it is so large, but it is also extremely useful in many areas of endeavor due to its huge and precise vocabulary. I'm sorry you couldn't look up the term "biologic" for yourself, but it's here, it's not going away, and it's not "wrong."

Languages change. Deal.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/13/2015 11:37:22 PM >


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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 10:41:34 PM   
geofflambert


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It's not in my dictionary, I'll check the OED when I have a chance, but if it is here let's attach it to the repeal of Obamacare.

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Post #: 34
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 10:41:47 PM   
Treetop64


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I have no idea what you are taking about, Gorn. The Internet has made it so that I haven't seen a commercial in months, possibly a year or more.

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 11:40:04 PM   
darbycmcd

 

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Geoff, you know that the OED incorporates words as they enter into common use after a period of time, it does not create words. What this means is everything in OED is a word, but not everything that is a word is in OED. It must be a word first, ergo it is by definition necessary for a word to exist outside OED for some period of time.

And for language purists, what is the cutoff date when language should no longer evolve? What we speak now is different than 100, 200, 300 years ago. Is this the best, most correct form of the language, by what definition?

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Post #: 36
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 11:50:13 PM   
bomccarthy


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Every business lives or dies based on how many products it can sell. And selling requires tapping into the desires and needs of a customer. Ignoring the serious issue of whether a pharmaceutical company ought to be pitching prescription drugs to the general public (“Side effects may include explosive diarrhea and serious stomach bleeding. In rare cases, sudden heart attacks have occured.”), a consumer product manufacturer has to figure out how to make the consumer want the product.

Take the example of the shampoo with “active naturals.” People buy shampoo for a lot of reasons – and clean hair is near the bottom of that list of reasons. Every shampoo on the market will clean your hair, and most will “add body and shine”. Walk down the soap and shampoo aisle of your grocery or drug store and you’ll find myriad brands of shampoo taking up half the aisle. If you’re a shampoo manufacturer looking to increase your market share by a measly 5%, what do you do?

Target a relatively new segment – “me-too organics” (I just made this up). These consumers want to be seen as friendly to the environment, with the kind of body and shine in their hair that hippies could only dream of. Unlike the earth mother and fathers who trade what they grow in the community garden at the local “farmers’” market, me-too organics aren’t really concerned about details – they’re not about to verify that their shampoo actually is hand-mixed in a clapboard house in rural Maine. As long as their shampoo has “natural ingredients” it can be manufactured in a large chemical plant outside Chicago or St Louis.

So, do you simply advertise that your shampoo has “natural ingredients”? Everyone and their brother says that. Cyanide is a natural ingredient. Nope – you need a description that stands out from the others. “Active naturals.” Short … descriptive … positive … no one else is using it. It even has a hard consonant sound that you create with your tongue against the top of your mouth. (Laugh all you want – that’s how Pfizer settled on “Viagra”).

Yes, in an English teacher’s mind it’s a dumb phrase that doesn’t mean anything. But, from a doctor’s point of view, shampoo that does anything more than clean your hair is a dumb product. And you’re not selling to doctors or English teachers, unless they also want natural ingredients that will add body and shine to their hair. What’s more, people who want this body and shine are willing to pay more if they get it through “active naturals.”

And that’s the point – a premium price. Business people discovered long ago that products with a premium aura can be sold at a higher price. And in our day and age, “natural ingredients” create a premium aura. In 40 years, maybe not so much. But you sell to the market you have now, not the market that may exist when your grandchildren have children.

It’s all about the dollars, and always has been. I’m looking at a 1969 ad for the Pontiac GTO Judge, with a “bump-proof Endura snoot.” What was “Endura”? The plastic urethene covering the front bumper and surrounding the grill. Unless someone can tell me where “Endura” came from, I think Pontiac and their ad people made the word up. I’m not even going to touch the late ‘60’s Dodge “Scat Pack”.

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Post #: 37
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/13/2015 11:53:23 PM   
bomccarthy


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Lest you think I happily accept any buzzwords created by American business, I long had a pet peeve concerning “proactive.” I grew up with “active”, “reactive”, and “passive”. What is “proactive” – active-active? Maybe it was coined by Major Major. Think about the reaction of people 20 years ago to this word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKqhHhLNA7o

Yet, I’ve had to accede to the wishes of the partners in my firm, who insist that our corporate clients are looking for “proactive audit and tax accountants.” I still hope that like “new paradigm” it will eventually fall out of general use.

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/14/2015 1:15:37 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

Lest you think I happily accept any buzzwords created by American business, I long had a pet peeve concerning “proactive.” I grew up with “active”, “reactive”, and “passive”. What is “proactive” – active-active? Maybe it was coined by Major Major. Think about the reaction of people 20 years ago to this word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKqhHhLNA7o

Yet, I’ve had to accede to the wishes of the partners in my firm, who insist that our corporate clients are looking for “proactive audit and tax accountants.” I still hope that like “new paradigm” it will eventually fall out of general use.



My Latin is 40 years ago, but pro comes from there and has a variety of meanings I believe. I always took "proactive" to mean "in favor of being active."

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/14/2015 1:17:48 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

Take the example of the shampoo with “active naturals.” People buy shampoo for a lot of reasons – and clean hair is near the bottom of that list of reasons. Every shampoo on the market will clean your hair, and most will “add body and shine”. Walk down the soap and shampoo aisle of your grocery or drug store and you’ll find myriad brands of shampoo taking up half the aisle. If you’re a shampoo manufacturer looking to increase your market share by a measly 5%, what do you do?



When I was a kid there was a shampoo brand with a TV ad that very, very strongly implied it would give women using it in the shower strong orgasms. Not later; there in shower while they washed their hair.

And then I became a product manager and made ads . . .

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/14/2015 2:49:54 AM   
geofflambert


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OK, now we have to figure out what the moose was a product manager for. Count Chocula? Lawn Darts (or Djarts)? Pet Rocks the advanced version?

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Post #: 41
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/14/2015 2:53:04 AM   
geofflambert


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Anyways, we now know the moose had a crush on Jo Ann Worley. That explains so much.

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Post #: 42
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/14/2015 4:49:57 AM   
wdolson

 

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My childhood was funded largely from advertising dollars. My father was a commercial photographer and probably about 60% of his business came from ad agencies. He did a lot of billboards and magazine ads.

It was a paycheck to him. He didn't think all that highly of most of what he did from a persuasive, or even an artistic point of view. He would comment on one or two that came along that had some art in them.

Bill

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Post #: 43
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/14/2015 5:33:20 AM   
witpqs


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My own pet peeve is simpler: hairballs!

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Post #: 44
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/15/2015 2:34:17 PM   
Lecivius


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"Reality TV"

Every time I hear of the Kardashians, Honey Boo Boo, Atlanta or New Jersey or ANY of that total trash, my cranium suffers a China Syndrome And my opinion of the human race drops. And that opinion is already below 'Three feet of topsoil".

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/15/2015 3:20:34 PM   
t001001001

 

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"For free" peeve.

Free isn't a noun.

Grammar Monster says if something is used often enough it becomes correct as the language changes, but I still cringe every time a professional ad writer uses it.

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Post #: 46
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/15/2015 7:16:29 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Anybody know if they still make this shampoo??....gotta get me some of that...or does it not work on one's self!!??

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/15/2015 8:09:01 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Anybody know if they still make this shampoo??....gotta get me some of that...or does it not work on one's self!!??


There was a similar campaign about ten (?) years ago in the UK I believe. Herbal Essences. There are some You Tubes of the ads. The one I'm thinking of was much older, like late 70s, in the US market. It was pretty scandalous at the time.

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/15/2015 9:30:26 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I miss the horses playing football....


Is that monkey smoking a Benson & Hedges?





I don't think so. From the look of his eyes I'd say the little bugger is stoned.


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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 2:34:51 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

"Reality TV"

Every time I hear of the Kardashians, Honey Boo Boo, Atlanta or New Jersey or ANY of that total trash, my cranium suffers a China Syndrome And my opinion of the human race drops. And that opinion is already below 'Three feet of topsoil".


There is a new scripted TV show about the production of an exploitative reality TV show. We watched the first episode and while it was well made, good acting, etc, it was also sick to watch (it's highly rated by the critics). From what I've read about the making of reality TV, the show was probably pretty accurate.

Occasionally I might find one episode of some reality programs interesting in the same way a documentary might be interesting, but they quickly become repetitive and tedious. The really exploitative programs are on my torture to watch list.

Bill

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 3:50:44 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

"Reality TV"

Every time I hear of the Kardashians, Honey Boo Boo, Atlanta or New Jersey or ANY of that total trash, my cranium suffers a China Syndrome And my opinion of the human race drops. And that opinion is already below 'Three feet of topsoil".


There is a new scripted TV show about the production of an exploitative reality TV show. We watched the first episode and while it was well made, good acting, etc, it was also sick to watch (it's highly rated by the critics). From what I've read about the making of reality TV, the show was probably pretty accurate.

Occasionally I might find one episode of some reality programs interesting in the same way a documentary might be interesting, but they quickly become repetitive and tedious. The really exploitative programs are on my torture to watch list.

Bill


+1


My pets peeve me when they pee on the furniture.

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 5:08:37 PM   
Symon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
My pets peeve me when they pee on the furniture.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Symon -- 6/16/2015 6:09:04 PM >


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Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 5:18:52 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

Lest you think I happily accept any buzzwords created by American business, I long had a pet peeve concerning “proactive.” I grew up with “active”, “reactive”, and “passive”. What is “proactive” – active-active? Maybe it was coined by Major Major. Think about the reaction of people 20 years ago to this word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKqhHhLNA7o

Yet, I’ve had to accede to the wishes of the partners in my firm, who insist that our corporate clients are looking for “proactive audit and tax accountants.” I still hope that like “new paradigm” it will eventually fall out of general use.




Reminds me of the new spate of lung cancer commercials with patients asking for "new news".
Makes me want to gag!

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 7:21:42 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

Lest you think I happily accept any buzzwords created by American business, I long had a pet peeve concerning “proactive.” I grew up with “active”, “reactive”, and “passive”. What is “proactive” – active-active? Maybe it was coined by Major Major. Think about the reaction of people 20 years ago to this word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKqhHhLNA7o

Yet, I’ve had to accede to the wishes of the partners in my firm, who insist that our corporate clients are looking for “proactive audit and tax accountants.” I still hope that like “new paradigm” it will eventually fall out of general use.



You know that George Marshall forbid a 5-star in the US to be called a Marshall or Field Marshall so he wouldn't be referred to as Field Marshall Marshall?

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Post #: 54
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 7:22:54 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

I have no idea what you are taking about, Gorn. The Internet has made it so that I haven't seen a commercial in months, possibly a year or more.


You don't watch Fox News? What kind of prevert are you?

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 6/16/2015 8:27:44 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 7:41:22 PM   
geofflambert


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Anyways, time to move on to my next pet peeve. Car commercials. (A sentence made of two nouns? How do you diagram that? If you don't know what sentence diagramming is/was, be thankful. The CIA considered using it on Al Qaeda instead of water boarding.) About three years back you would never see a car commercial that didn't have the car being sold moving in slow motion sideways. When I drive I like it when I point the front wheels forward the car goes forward, not sideways and not in slow motion. Surely they didn't sell any cars that year? Did government regulation allow that sort of car?

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Post #: 56
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 7:55:04 PM   
geofflambert


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I'm afraid it is dinnertime. I'm probably done for the day. I'm thinking some Japanese fare, and after that retiring to the hearth with a stick and some marshmallows, chocolate and some graham crackers. O Tempura! O S'mores!

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 6/16/2015 9:09:00 PM >

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Post #: 57
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 8:44:44 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Anyways, time to move on to my next pet peeve. Car commercials. (A sentence made of two nouns?


"Car" here is an adjective.

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RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/16/2015 8:46:00 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

"Reality TV"

Every time I hear of the Kardashians, Honey Boo Boo, Atlanta or New Jersey or ANY of that total trash, my cranium suffers a China Syndrome And my opinion of the human race drops. And that opinion is already below 'Three feet of topsoil".


Here's some good news, I heard on the radio the other day there's an app you can get that blocks all things Kardashian. Now that's something I can get on board with!!!


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 59
RE: OT Pet Peeves - 6/17/2015 12:56:23 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
My pets peeve me when they pee on the furniture.


I have a 20 year old cat. I can relate, though not on the furniture.

Bill

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Post #: 60
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