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Question on Military - 3/14/2003 10:53:19 PM   
SoulBlazer

 

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Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
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I apoligize for posting here, but I was'nt sure where else to ask people who either had military experience or know a lot about it, and the Mods can feel free to move this , just wanted people to see it. :)

Like many people, my Dad did some time in Vietnam -- he was drafted and did two tours there from 1967-1969 before coming back to the States and going to college. (yes, that makes me young, I was born in 76) He's never really opened up about his time there, for reasons I fully understand, even if he never did see any front line action. Like most wars, the support people outnumber the fighting people by avout 4-1. Anyway......

He HAS told me that shortly after ariving at the US base for boot camp -- this is the Army -- one Sarge picked some of them at random from a line and they were trained as MP's. As such, my Dad had a 'cushy' assignment at a air base outside of Saigon where he got to spend a lot of time in the city enjoying himself with his buddies. (His stories have gotten more detailed about the bars there as I got older :D )

The main thing I wonder about is that I've never heard or read anywhere else of MP's EVER being chosen that way before. Is he telling the truth and this really happened, or is his memory going bad or something?

Also, he said that on one leg over he was flown and the other leg he was a boat. Again, I can't find any confirmation of that being common either.

Thanks in advance. :)

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Post #: 1
- 3/15/2003 12:44:35 PM   
madflava13


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From: Alexandria, VA
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SoulBlazer,
I'm not a veteran, but I've read of other situations where soldiers and sailors were arbitrarily picked like your father for certain duties based on the service's needs... In actuality, thats what I think happens more often than not -- you pick what you want to do, and if it fits what the Army needs, great... Otherwise, you're doing whatever they want you to do.
As for flying over and sailing back, that's entirely possible. You didn't mention what unit he was with, but a number of units were shipped over and back.

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Post #: 2
- 3/15/2003 12:51:57 PM   
denisonh


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From: Upstate SC
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by madflava13
[B]SoulBlazer,
I'm not a veteran, but I've read of other situations where soldiers and sailors were arbitrarily picked like your father for certain duties based on the service's needs... In actuality, thats what I think happens more often than not -- you pick what you want to do, and if it fits what the Army needs, great... Otherwise, you're doing whatever they want you to do.
As for flying over and sailing back, that's entirely possible. You didn't mention what unit he was with, but a number of units were shipped over and back. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not entirely true. The US Army can guarentee an applicant a specialty he/she is qualified for, or a place of duty. Just not both:D.

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"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

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Post #: 3
- 3/15/2003 1:08:06 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
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I stand corrected...

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Post #: 4
some data for you - 3/15/2003 3:06:03 PM   
elcid

 

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I did serve in the Viet Nam era, and also in Viet Nam itself, but not in the Army. I also was trained as a military policeman in the naval services, and later in an army type state unit, plus I know an army story similar to your father's. So maybe I can help.

First, it was entirely possible to fly or sail to Viet Nam, and I did both. One reason I sailed is that I was a crewman on a ship, whereas Army guys often would fly over, and mate up with equipment sent by ship.

Second, in WWII, the Army seems to have recruited MPs exactly as your father described. My father in law tells a similar story. In my own case, I was in the Navy, and the system is entirely different - but possibly the outcome is similar. The Navy used not to have MPs as such. All the Navy military police (then called SPs and Brig Chasers) were "temporary assignments" and not job "ratings." Nevertheless, you could go to specialized schools, and you also could be assigned to "perminant shore patrol duty" or "brig chaser duty" for a period of time (vice the more normal one night or weekend period). I missed movement once (because a ship moved ahead of plan) and got assigned to brig chaser duty on a completely random basis, because I was a very junior petty officer. Later I got assigned shore patrol duty because I was very experienced and had a good record handling situations - the more there was worry the situation required a cool head the more likely I would get the job. I hated that kind of work - it took me to places I never would go otherwise and it made me actually seek out trouble - not something advisable to do in such places! It probably caused me to have zero interest in getting drunk or other things soldiers and sailors do on liberty, having seen them all close up and sober!

Viet Nam is a hard war to understand. It involved several countries and even more ethnic groups, and Viet Nam is on the line where Chinese and Indian cultures meet, which is to say there are fundamental culture clashes already there BEFORE you add Americans to the mix. It matters where you were and also when you were there - as it lasts many years and things changed dramatically over that time. I made it around quite a bit, but never to the big city (Saigon), which was very corrupt by all accounts. Rural Vietnam, and also Cambodia, were in contrast very ethical places, places people do not need locks on their doors or jails in their towns. The only movie to capture this spirit I ever saw was Operation Dumbo Drop, starring Danny Glover, and made by Walt Disney - and it is even historical. The special forces captain cannot understand why his men are entirely concerned with local village issues, but within days he is up to his neck breaking rules to help them as well, having his heart captured by the overwhelming logic and honesty of their situations. Girls in the villages won't speak to a man (unless he is invited to the New Year family dinner, which means he is now part of the family community) - very different from girls in Saigon I hear. None of which means things could not be quite grim, as the VC would punish either an entire family or an entire village, for virtually any infraction of their rules. And punish is the polite way to put it. Sailors sometimes served in detached situations (as did Special Forces and Marines) because they are not too disoriented when there are not friends on the right, friends on the left, friends to the rear and the enemy in front (a la classical regular army units). I saw a bit of this, and it must have been similar to mixed American and Korean units in the Korean War. This sort of thing often did not work out well, but the Marine/Navy idea of training in the local language and culture worked much better than the Army idea such things were too expensive - so my experience was very positive. I had more trouble with Army men misbehaving (rape, shelling civilians for kicks, etc.) than I ever did with disloyal or disinterested Vietnamese or Cambodians. But there are other stories, and it is clear from history that the VC informant system was often quite effective, and deadly. As I say, Viet Nam is very complicated. Also probably unwinnable - as Johnson had made a secret deal with Mao we didn't know about whose terms pretty well limited our options (out of fear of another PLA invasion as happened in Korea). There is nothing quite as frustrating as a war you cannot win which is also unpopular at home. I was not welcomed home for 30 years - when finally someone, upon learning that, said "welcome home!"

(in reply to SoulBlazer)
Post #: 5
- 3/15/2003 6:21:56 PM   
Splinterhead


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From: Lenoir City, TN
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by denisonh
[B]Not entirely true. The US Army can guarentee an applicant a specialty he/she is qualified for, or a place of duty. Just not both:D. [/B][/QUOTE]



Or if the enlistee fails to complete his/her training on time through fault not the (insert service here) the enlistee can be reassigned to where the service needs him/her. If you score too high in a proficiency test in a needed skill (or if they really need ditch diggers) and you keep declining their offers to let you break your contract, they can always catch you screwing up and recycle you.:p

(in reply to SoulBlazer)
Post #: 6
- 3/17/2003 1:04:13 AM   
Snigbert

 

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Soulblazer,

My dad served in Vietnam too, it's one of the things that got me interested in the military and in wargaming. He went from San Diego to Hawaii on a ship (USS Kitty Hawk) and from Hawaii to Da Nang by airplane. He also mentioned that when his plane landed on the runway in Da Nang it the airfield was under a rocket attack so it wasn't all that much safer if you weren't on the frontlines in Vietnam. Another Marine I talked to was an electronic cryptographer who never even picked up a rifle while he was over there and he was wounded by a mortar attack on the 1st Marine Division HQ. So keep in mind there really were no front lines in Vietnam. I would imagine if your dad was an MP he saw some sort of action because a large part of what the US forces were involved in was 'policing' the civilians looking for signs of Viet Cong or enemy activity.
My dad was a rifleman and the way he recalls being selected was, on the last day of boot Boot Camp on Paris Island after their graduation ceremony the DI got them together in the barracks and read a list of their names and their assigned MOS. My dad said basically everyone had their fingers crossed they would get embassy duty or something cushy and almost everyone got assigned to '0311-Rifleman', which meant they were going to Vietnam.
There is a web site called Children of Vietnam Veterans you might want to check out, [url]www.covv.com[/url]
Also, Keith William Nolan has written a whole bunch of good books on various battles in Vietnam if you are interested in getting more insight into what it was like for the fighting man in VietNam.

_____________________________

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"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket

"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the

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Post #: 7
- 3/17/2003 2:02:39 AM   
rcwkent

 

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From: New York City
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Welcome home, elcid.

I'm really glad you are back.

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Post #: 8
- 3/17/2003 3:24:45 AM   
rawink

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/30/2002
From: Tallahassee, FL
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Firstly.. a bIG SALUTE to all who have worn a uniform in defense of Freedom!

on the point however.. remember that Viet nam had a Draft in place. You were compelled to join, and they decided where to stick you.

During a non-draft elistment, your desires factor in a lot stronger into where you get placed, but in wartime under draft? you are better off enlisting and hoping you get lucky.. if you are drafted, you are BBQ :)

I was in 84-90 US Army..

(in reply to SoulBlazer)
Post #: 9
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