Basic Sub Tutorial??

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Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 6/24/2015 5:28:36 PM

PittBull

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/3/2013
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Since I am fairly new to CMANO, I am working through the Basic Sub Tutorial. Not sure if my settings not correct and so I'm not sure what to expect.
1. My passive sonar does not want to designate the DDG as hostile even at 5nm. Of course, once it fires it's torps then it is designated as hostile.
2. I have gone to periscope depth with the DDG at <10nm, still not hostile.
3. I activated the active sonar at 5nm, at least I think I did, it is checked, but no sound and no ring to indicate the pings.

I played Harpoon many years ago. CMANO is similar but vastly different and better. So I assume that there is user error involved. Maybe one of you could point out the error of my ways.
Thanks for your help.

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PittBull

Post #: 1

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 6/24/2015 7:07:51 PM

Marder

Posts: 242
Joined: 10/25/2013
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A great idea. I would like to see spreading "ping rings".
Don't know how the mechanics work ingame.
If there really already are pulses of an active sonar, it would be easy to visualize them.
Sorry for my english, hope you understand what i mean.
And sry for off-topic...

(in reply to PittBull)

Post #: 2

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 6/24/2015 9:42:24 PM

AlanChan

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/17/2015
Status: offline

you can press h to manually mark that contact as hostile and your sub will try to kill it.

(in reply to Marder)

Post #: 3

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 6/25/2015 5:02:54 AM

ComDev

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
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10nm is quite far for a periscope, just a couple of meters out of the water, in waves, etc

The visual horizon is a fair bit shorter than the radar horizon.

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(in reply to AlanChan)

Post #: 4

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 6/25/2015 9:46:39 AM

p1t1o

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/6/2015
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quote:

1. My passive sonar does not want to designate the DDG as hostile even at 5nm. Of course, once it fires it's torps then it is designated as hostile.
2. I have gone to periscope depth with the DDG at <10nm, still not hostile.
3. I activated the active sonar at 5nm, at least I think I did, it is checked, but no sound and no ring to indicate the pings.

1. Classification of targets by passive sonar can sometimes take a while, this also depends on the nature of the equipment on board (more advanced subs will do it faster), it also depends on how much noise the opponent is making and how close you are. The key to submarine combat is patience, follow him for a while, you'll get your classification.

2. All sensor ranges given are theoretical maximums, the nature of the target and the context you are in will determine the actual range at which you start to get information. Visual sensors (periscopes, Mk.1 eyeball etc.) can take a while, or you have to be very close, to get any worthwhile info.

3. Passive sonar is always on. If you checked the active sonar, it will be on, but there are no visual cues, but your detection ability will be increased within the active sonars range. The large rings you sometimes see are from long-range towed-array-type sonars, which can only be deployed in deepish water. Deployment is automatically managed. If you see them, it means that your submarine has one, you are in deep enough water (the actual depth of your sub doesnt matter) and it is working. The towed arrays have some other quirks, see the manual.

As for hostility, you can wait for the target to be fully classified by your sensors, or you can make a command decision and assume its hostility based on the situation, and make a manual attack, or set RoE to "FREE" (if you are sure he IS a hostile of course). Or, as explained above, you can set it hostile manually. Another option is to vector other assets to identify the contact. Coming up to periscope depth is to be avoided that close, as you are easily heard at that depth and some sensors can spot your scope.

(in reply to ComDev)

Post #: 5

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 7/2/2015 10:11:14 AM

RatherTwo

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/2/2015
Status: offline

I�m totally mew to CMANO and having problems with the same scenario.
Please excuse my rough english, but I'm from germany and do my best ...

I'll try to hunt the sub down with my helo and leaving the ship outside
the rectangle. Dropping active and passive sonar buoys over and under
the layer as well as dipping sonar around the contact didn't result in
anything.
I'm not able to classify the contact as hostile nor the type of sub.
After a while I designated the contact as hostile, the helo fired a
torpedo and the sub sunk (whatever sub it was).

I don't understand, why the active and passive sonar buoys were not
able to identify the target.

Thanks for your help.

(in reply to p1t1o)

Post #: 6

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 7/2/2015 10:32:31 AM

p1t1o

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/6/2015
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To be honest, I think that might be something you have to live with, this reflects reality. Classifying subs is not a technically simple thing and you may not have the sensors available to do it. Having said that, I have had good results with dipping sonar, try to deploy it as close as possible, on top of him if you can.

Sometimes though you have to rely on your own intuition and situational awareness, "Do I expect any friendly subs in the area?", "If that is not a friendly contact, is he hunting me?"

Its hard to hide your ships from sonar, they are noisy, so mostly, you can say that enemy subs know where your ships are. If you find a contact and he changes heading when you change the heading of your fleet, that is a clue that he might be hostile, fire on the unknown contact.

If he's not one of yours, he's one of theirs - the only worry really is, are there faction/posture/scenario conditions that prevent you from firing on unknown contacts? Are you worried about needlessly torpedoing marine life? If not, fire on unidentified submarine contacts. They are too much of a threat otherwise.

Then identify the wreckage

If you absolutely MUST identify the contact before you shoot, try and get him to make some more noise - a sub travelling at 20 kts is much much easier to ID than one creeping at 3kts - if you can get him to speed up (by say, turning your fleet and heading away from him at flank) you may find that you can classify him even at long range. You can even fire a bearing-only torpedo across his bows, this might get him to flee just be careful the torpedo won't get close enough to lock on and track (if you'r determined to give him that chance).

(in reply to RatherTwo)

Post #: 7

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 7/2/2015 10:54:46 AM

thewood1

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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The hardest scenarios are the ones where you kow nuetral subs might be around. It can be nail-biting.

(in reply to p1t1o)

Post #: 8

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 7/2/2015 6:50:40 PM

RatherTwo

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/2/2015
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Thank you for your replies!
I hoped for another answer: That I didn't get the point or
made something wrong.
I thought the ROE "First shot, then ask question" is obsolete nowadays.

But anyway, I try to live it and ask questions later.
Thought in real life detection is easier because of all the modern
sensor stuff (active, passive, bouys dippinig sonar, etc.).

Thank you very much for your support

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 9

RE: Basic Sub Tutorial?? - 7/2/2015 8:39:03 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
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My understanding in sub warfare is zones are set for friendly subs to avoid. Any unknown contact in the zone is then prosecuted aggressively.

(in reply to RatherTwo)

Post #: 10