Timing accuracy?

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Timing accuracy? - 6/26/2015 7:38:34 AM

Lucian

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I'm certainly no expert, but subs seem to change depth extremely rapidly, it only takes seconds rather than minutes to go from shallow to deep. Also changes in speed seem to happen far too rapidly for such a massive craft.

Is the timing of these events (change in depth and change in speed) really so rapid in reality and I'm just not familiar enough to form a valid opinion, or is the simulation just not very accurate in these particular areas?

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 8:58:48 AM

VictorVon

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I've noticed this too. A San Juan SSN submarine will go from flank to creep speed in about 8 seconds. Realistic? I doubt it but I don't really know, it would be interesting to hear from an expert or two on the matter. I wouldn't expect perfection but this IS a simulator so something at least vaguely approaching reality would be nice.

(in reply to Lucian)

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 12:19:19 PM

CV60

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The accelerations/decelerations are not accurately modeled. However, for the level that this game is at, (Tactical/operational) IMHO, the acceleration/deceleration rate of ships will have at best an extremely low if not non-existant impact on any engagement

quote:

I've noticed this too. A San Juan SSN submarine will go from flank to creep speed in about 8 seconds. Realistic? I doubt it but I don't really know, it would be interesting to hear from an expert or two on the matter. I wouldn't expect perfection but this IS a simulator so something at least vaguely approaching reality would be nice.

< Message edited by CV60 -- 6/27/2015 1:20:35 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 2:46:10 PM

Lucian

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Thanks for confirming that the rate of speed and altitude change are not accurately modeled, I'm inexperienced enough with naval matters to not be 100% sure, so its good to have it confirmed. I agree that it probably isn't worth modelling variables that would have little to no effect on the overall accuracy of the simulation.

< Message edited by Lucian -- 6/27/2015 3:51:21 PM >

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 4:09:49 PM

thewood1

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Is acceleration just generalized, because it does take time to get to speed.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 7:04:14 PM

Lucian

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Yes, and it takes time to change altitude too although it seems like the time taken bears no real resemblance to reality. Good question though, I'd like to know the answer too, are the rates of change for speed and altitude generalized or do they vary between platforms?

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Post #: 6

RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 7:22:19 PM

thewood1

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Frankly, I don't think it has any impact, some acceleration is obviously modeled. I hope this doesn't become one of those tings people get obsessed over...I would rather the devs focus on some other stuff.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 7:41:03 PM

Lucian

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I mostly agree, if it doesn't affect the overall quality of the simulation, then it probably shouldn't receive much - if any - attention. Certainly I wouldn't want to see the devs waste significant time on what really amounts to a cosmetic concern.

But the fact that speed and altitude change *do* take some time sort of begs the question. If you're going to the trouble of making these things take X amount of time anyway, why not make that number (X) closer to reality, for the sake of immersion if nothing else?

< Message edited by Lucian -- 6/27/2015 8:49:27 PM >

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 7:58:10 PM

thewood1

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Immersion? In a 2D combat display simulation of theater-wide naval warfare? Immersion would be to sit in a dark room on a hot day with no AC and having no idea what is going on. Let alone knowing how quickly something is accelerating.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 8:07:37 PM

Lucian

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lol, It might seem funny to be talking about immersion in a 2d Icon-based naval simulation but since that's exactly how *real-life* naval combat is conducted, I have to say that when I play this game I really do feel immersed, more so than when playing some AAA shooter. :)

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/27/2015 8:09:21 PM

thewood1

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It might be conducted that way, but if its important, you might want to consider playing a flight simulator or a sub simulator.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/28/2015 2:09:13 AM

Casinn

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I'm sure its on their list, but that list has to rival Santa's for length at this point.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/28/2015 6:56:29 AM

charlee22009

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Check out dangerous waters. The speed change timings aren't that off, best I can tell. (Although they certainly aren't perfect.)
As far as aircraft changing altitude, it seems about right too.

I think, atleast, that climbing aircraft (in cmano) use considerably more fuel than they do in straight and level flight. Haven't tested it... but I'm pretty sure.

Now all we need is drops tanks and ac agility based on fuel status and remaining payload.

< Message edited by charlee22009 -- 6/28/2015 7:57:11 AM >

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/29/2015 9:28:40 AM

p1t1o

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I agree, its a valid point, aircraft for example, take time to accelerate, but when you lower their speed it slams straight down to whatever you set (925knts ->350kts in less than a second

) so if acceleration is modelled, albit probably simply, why not apply the same mechanic to deceleration?

It might not make any difference tactically, but then, it might just. You ever been micromanaging a dogfight and tightly controlling your speed? It could have an effect there. Less so with ships and submarines, but the point is valid.

The devs will focus on whatever they think is most important, whatever we discuss here, after all this is all just text.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/29/2015 10:33:01 AM

thewood1

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No, the devs listen to these conversations...as far as I have seen. They might agree with our priorities or the ultimate goal of the game, but they listen.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/29/2015 11:11:57 AM

p1t1o

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I didn't say they don't listen - I'm saying we can discuss what we like here without fear that we will accidentally convince them to work on something nobody wants...

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Post #: 16

RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/29/2015 3:10:45 PM

Lucian

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Thing is though, the rate of altitude and speed change is *already* present and modeled in the game, its just currently very, very inaccurate. I'm thinking (and I could well be totally wrong) that it shouldn't be too hard to re-adjust those already existing values to something a little more realistic. If I'm wrong and it would be a lot of work then I'd honestly prefer that they focused on more important things, but if its a relatively quick fix...... then why not?

Even something as simple as making subs or large ships take minutes rather than seconds to speed up, slow down or change altitude would go a long way towards making it seem a lot more realistic.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/29/2015 3:45:37 PM

thewood1

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There are what...20,000 database entries? I would imagine it would a little bit of an undertaking. But I am sure it could be done, if anyone knows all the actual numbers.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/30/2015 3:17:06 AM

Casinn

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And if you play larger scenarios, just how much of them do you play at 1:1 speed where it really matters if they take minutes or seconds to climb/descend. Don't often have the real life time for a 24 hour or more real time scenario.

I tend to play most in "sprint/drift mode", changing game speed on events. Only time I really play 1:1 speed is air conflicts in small scenarios.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/30/2015 8:20:11 AM

Lucian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

There are what...20,000 database entries? I would imagine it would a little bit of an undertaking. But I am sure it could be done, if anyone knows all the actual numbers.

If it would really require 20,000 separate entries then they should definitely forget about it, but it really depends on the way the simulator models acceleration. Is it by individual platform or is it more generic? If it is something more like....

Generic Sea vessel acceleration = A
Generic Sea vessel deceleration = B
Generic Sea vessel altitude change rate = C
Generic Aircraft acceleration = D
Generic Aircraft deceleration = E
Generic Aircraft altitude change rate = F

Then that sounds pretty easy. I don't think anyone cares about precise values for each individual platform. Generic values would be fine as long as they are somewhere in the ballpark. Its just a bit jarring when a 10,000 ton Submarine can go from flank to creep in less than 10 seconds.

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RE: Timing accuracy? - 6/30/2015 10:41:51 AM

thewood1

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I think it might have that now...if you look at some units they seem to have some general accelleration times, but do seem to vary a little. I've really only looked at a dozen maybe and done nothing scientific.

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Post #: 21