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Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 5:13:40 AM

VegasOZ

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If they can ban any games that have the CSA Flag, what is next? German Army references? SS references? Games with Italian Flags?

What about when they come for the games with GUNS?? Shooters?? What's to prevent them doing that if they get away with this BS??

It is time for GAMING to stand up to the bullies and fight back.

BOYCOTT all products made by Apple, distributed by Apple or sold by any Apple outlet. Do it now.

Post #: 1

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 5:32:43 AM

danlongman

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From: Over the hills and far away
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Lots of European and other products don't reproduce Nazi flags and symbols.
We all remember what they were but accept an alternate German flag without complaining.

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(in reply to VegasOZ)

Post #: 2

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 5:41:44 AM

VegasOZ

Posts: 295
Joined: 7/30/2014
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Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily. I own several wargames that have Swastikas in them and on the units. The American Civil War has been over some 150 plus years and to ban the Confederate Flag now is beyond stupid, beyond ignorance and beyond the point that we should put up with it.

(in reply to danlongman)

Post #: 3

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 7:10:07 AM

terje439

Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

1. Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily.
2. I own several wargames that have Swastikas in them and on the units.
3. The American Civil War has been over some 150 plus years and to ban the Confederate Flag now is beyond stupid, beyond ignorance and beyond the point that we should put up with it.

1. Hmmm...Tbh, uncalled for. It is not about "rolling over", it is about taking a stand imo. "This is something we want/need to put behind us". Insinuating that all of Europe are being pushed around was an unneccessary response, but ok.
2. I own alot of stuff with the swastika on it, do not have any issues with it. For some strange reason it has not made me a neo nazi either

.
3. In games, literature etc, I totally agree. Do the former confederate states need to fly the flag today, not so sure.

I do however completely agree with your initial statement, that this form of censorship is bad. Not because it would be the end of the world if another flag would be shown, to me the thought behind my decision is as follows;

If we remove "stuff"(be it a flag, a song or whatnot) because some nutcase uses it/is seen posing with "stuff", do we not empower said nutcase by banning "stuff"? I think we do.

Terje

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("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to VegasOZ)

Post #: 4

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 7:27:24 AM

Pvt_Grunt

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/13/2007
From: Frankston Victoria
Status: offline

Panzer Corps has SE units as elite units, SS was not allowed to be used in Germany.

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Post #: 5

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 7:56:35 AM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

never bought from apple and never will either, have no product so bit of a mute point for me tbh

(in reply to Pvt_Grunt)

Post #: 6

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/26/2015 12:48:10 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

If they can ban any games that have the CSA Flag, what is next? German Army references? SS references? Games with Italian Flags?

What about when they come for the games with GUNS?? Shooters?? What's to prevent them doing that if they get away with this BS??

It is time for GAMING to stand up to the bullies and fight back.

BOYCOTT all products made by Apple, distributed by Apple or sold by any Apple outlet. Do it now.

No.

Nor am I going to boycott Walmart or Amazon. Unless you're willing to pay for what I want.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 6/26/2015 3:23:21 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/28/2015 5:37:22 PM

Chris Hampton

Posts: 32
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline

Funny, isn't it that Amazon/Ebay still have a lot of merchandise featuring emblems of racist groups like Black Panthers and LaRaza. And interestingly enough Nazi emblems and insignia are still available (You know, the people who actually committed genocide) This yet another example of the government and businesses rolling over in appeasement of a vocal minority. How long till it's the US flag that somebody finds "offensive". Sooner than you think if the cancer of liberalism isn't cut out of this country. I am joining and urge others who want to save what's left of the 1st amendment in this country to join the boycott of Amazon, Ebay Walmart and Apple.

< Message edited by Kriegspieler16 -- 6/28/2015 6:40:19 PM >

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RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/28/2015 6:55:10 PM

Kuokkanen

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

What about when they come for the games with GUNS?? Shooters?? What's to prevent them doing that if they get away with this BS??

What would Microsoft do if they were told they can't distribute Halo games anymore...

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MekWars

(in reply to VegasOZ)

Post #: 9

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/28/2015 6:56:02 PM

Zap

Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

Funny, isn't it that Amazon/Ebay still have a lot of merchandise featuring emblems of racist groups like Black Panthers and LaRaza. And interestingly enough Nazi emblems and insignia are still available (You know, the people who actually committed genocide) This yet another example of the government and businesses rolling over in appeasement of a vocal minority. How long till it's the US flag that somebody finds "offensive". Sooner than you think if the cancer of liberalism isn't cut out of this country. I am joining and urge others who want to save what's left of the 1st amendment in this country to join the boycott of Amazon, Ebay Walmart and Apple.

That suggest the success of certain groups who have painted La Raza, Black panthers (as fighting for justice) when they are racist, Communist Russia, Communist China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, as not so bad.

It is interesting that the outcry only goes to certain groups. Too many, career college students with all the time to make noise.Lol Where are the masses calling for the banning of those flags or groups!!!!!

< Message edited by Zap -- 6/28/2015 7:57:47 PM >

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RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/28/2015 9:52:44 PM

Alchenar

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Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline

Nobody cares you grumpy old men.

Free speech and the free market are blades that cut in all directions. You can sell what you like and buy from who you like.

(in reply to Zap)

Post #: 11

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/28/2015 10:38:05 PM

Wolfe1759

Posts: 798
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Shropshire, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ
Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily.

I must say I found this comment rather insulting.

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(in reply to VegasOZ)

Post #: 12

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/28/2015 11:19:55 PM

milkweg

Posts: 546
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline

Don't let it bother you, the USA is no where near as free as they would like you to think.

(in reply to Wolfe1759)

Post #: 13

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 1:18:06 AM

Zap

Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

Nobody cares you grumpy old men.

Free speech and the free market are blades that cut in all directions. You can sell what you like and buy from who you like.

Obviously, not. Can't sell confederate flags now in all available MARKETS.

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Post #: 14

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 3:28:00 AM

operating

Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline

Gee! Where can I buy an ISIS flag? Will that offend anybody? After-all they show it 24/7 on CNN.... Maybe Apple will ban CNN from all their products!!! or maybe Apple supports ISIL, don't hear them say otherwise.... Oh Yeah! Those ISIL guys use Apple products to show the world their latest atrocities, so what else does Apple have to be proud of? Picking on a confederate flag that cannot fight back: Don't say much for Apple, except they show the world what bootlickers they truly are.... or is Apple flag Nazi's? The worst kind of Nazi..... Corporate Nazi....

(in reply to Zap)

Post #: 15

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 8:14:10 AM

Aurelian

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Joined: 2/26/2007
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Hyperbole much?

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Post #: 16

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 12:16:03 PM

Sarge

Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily.

(in reply to VegasOZ)

Post #: 17

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 2:12:16 PM

KISSMEUFOOL!

Posts: 121
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

If they can ban any games that have the CSA Flag, what is next? German Army references? SS references? Games with Italian Flags?

What about when they come for the games with GUNS?? Shooters?? What's to prevent them doing that if they get away with this BS??

It is time for GAMING to stand up to the bullies and fight back.

BOYCOTT all products made by Apple, distributed by Apple or sold by any Apple outlet. Do it now.

(in reply to Sarge)

Post #: 18

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 2:20:55 PM

Kuokkanen

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

If they can ban any games that have the CSA Flag, what is next? German Army references? SS references? Games with Italian Flags?

What about when they come for the games with GUNS?? Shooters?? What's to prevent them doing that if they get away with this BS??

It has been tried several times in the past. Some guy from Mexico (mayor or the like) complained about one game of the Call of Duty series so loudly it was heard all the way in Finland.

There was this one american lawyer, who made several charges against Rock Star Games about its Grand Theft Auto series. Eventually judges told him to shut the frak up.

In 1980's in Finland parliament was discussed about game review on local computer magazine. Game in question was Raid Over Moscow.

Video games have got frak for nearly as long as those have existed. Has it made significant changes to the big picture? Other than some games should not be sold to minors?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pvt_Grunt

Panzer Corps has SE units as elite units, SS was not allowed to be used in Germany.

But SS is allowed in Unity of Command

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

How long till it's the US flag that somebody finds "offensive". Sooner than you think if the cancer of liberalism isn't cut out of this country.

Like that hasn't happened already. I expect whole lot of people around the world have found USA flag offensive (most recently in Afghanistan and Iraq), and I expect USA troops there have answered protests with "Shut the frak up!"

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Post #: 19

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 2:27:10 PM

KISSMEUFOOL!

Posts: 121
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Lots of European and other products don't reproduce Nazi flags and symbols.
We all remember what they were but accept an alternate German flag without complaining.

Most of us dont accept censorship so we're complaining anyway.

(in reply to Kuokkanen)

Post #: 20

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 6:09:03 PM

Capitaine

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline

History must always, in any form, be presented undiluted. It constitutes a distortion of reality to blot out facets of history that may be considered unsavory. This includes emblems that represent the offending parties or nations. Using these symbols in historical contexts is not offensive, as would using them in nonhistorical manners, and should be insisted upon by every thoughtful person recognizing the importance of the historical record.

(in reply to KISSMEUFOOL!)

Post #: 21

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 6:29:54 PM

cohimbra

Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily.

boia, voi ameri'ani siete uno scompiscio

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Post #: 22

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 7:05:36 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

quote:

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ
Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily.

I must say I found this comment rather insulting.

warspite1

Agreed, a quite unwarranted and frankly ridiculous remark

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Post #: 23

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 7:19:45 PM

operating

Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Hyperbole much?

Oh Yes! It's an exaggeration as to how ridiculous to the extent neophyte political correctness some will go, or perceive what they think is right, even though they don't have a clue what the ramifications are. Yes, it is a complex subject....

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 24

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 9:15:35 PM

Chris Hampton

Posts: 32
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

Funny, isn't it that Amazon/Ebay still have a lot of merchandise featuring emblems of racist groups like Black Panthers and LaRaza. And interestingly enough Nazi emblems and insignia are still available (You know, the people who actually committed genocide) This yet another example of the government and businesses rolling over in appeasement of a vocal minority. How long till it's the US flag that somebody finds "offensive". Sooner than you think if the cancer of liberalism isn't cut out of this country. I am joining and urge others who want to save what's left of the 1st amendment in this country to join the boycott of Amazon, Ebay Walmart and Apple.

That suggest the success of certain groups who have painted La Raza, Black panthers (as fighting for justice) when they are racist, Communist Russia, Communist China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, as not so bad.

It is interesting that the outcry only goes to certain groups. Too many, career college students with all the time to make noise.Lol Where are the masses calling for the banning of those flags or groups!!!!!

_____________________________

People who turn their swords into plowshares generally end up plowing for the people who kept their swords...

(in reply to Zap)

Post #: 25

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 9:59:58 PM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

A couple questions for our European friends.... Can you own a game with a Nazi flag in it? Can you openly discuss the Nazi Regime including comments that may not be against said regime? Can you legally own a Nazi flag? Can you openly condemn a religion that is offensive and murderous? Or are you not permitted those freedoms?

(in reply to Chris Hampton)

Post #: 26

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 10:13:12 PM

Alchenar

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

A couple questions for our European friends.... Can you own a game with a Nazi flag in it? Can you openly discuss the Nazi Regime including comments that may not be against said regime? Can you legally own a Nazi flag? Can you openly condemn a religion that is offensive and murderous? Or are you not permitted those freedoms?

You might want to look up the wikipedia article on Denazification, specifically the American Zone.

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 27

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 10:18:43 PM

danlongman

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KISSMEUFOOL!

quote:

Lots of European and other products don't reproduce Nazi flags and symbols.
We all remember what they were but accept an alternate German flag without complaining.

Most of us dont accept censorship so we're complaining anyway.

Anybody can complain and they do as we can see. My point is that I am NOT going to
criticise a European game company for choosing not to use Nazi symbology.
You can do that all you want since you have no consequences from your whinging
and nobody will change anything to please your idea of how you think it should be.
I won't complain about Confederate symbology in an historical setting nor worry
about its absence if someone choose not to portray it for PC reasons.
As far as that "We don't roll over so easy" comment.
You fool no one. Talk is cheap for internet hard guys.

_____________________________

"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to KISSMEUFOOL!)

Post #: 28

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 10:20:34 PM

Zap

Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

quote:

Well this ain't Europe and we do not roll over for Censorship quite that easily.

boia, voi ameri'ani siete uno scompiscio

So what you are saying is that we Americans are confused? If so could you elaborate? Or tell us what you were meaning with your words.

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Post #: 29

RE: Time to STAND UP Gaming World: CSA, what next? - 6/29/2015 10:49:27 PM

jnier

Posts: 402
Joined: 2/18/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16
Sooner than you think if the cancer of liberalism isn't cut out of this country. I am joining and urge others who want to save what's left of the 1st amendment in this country to join the boycott of Amazon, Ebay Walmart and Apple.

Obviously, the 1st amendment has little to do with the actions of private corporations. When you say hateful things or post hateful things for sale on a corporate website, private corporations are free to prevent you from doing so. That is their right. That being said, Apple clearly went too far, though they quickly corrected their error.

As another example of this, I would hope that Matrix will lock this thread for the clearly derogatory partisan political comment. The terms of service say no political comments. Some trolls just cannot help themselves.

(in reply to Chris Hampton)

Post #: 30