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Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/2/2015 9:39:22 PM

tgb

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and a long-time (soon to be former) Matrix supporter, all I can say is:

Thanks for the screwing, guys.

That is all.

Post #: 1

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/2/2015 11:02:16 PM

aaatoysandmore

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Awwww did you get screwed? how? I might remind you of a story in the good book that pretty much is about this very case.

A farmer hired several workers at 6am and said he'd pay them $1 a piece at the end of the day. So the day went along and the workers were working but the farmer saw that not all of his crop was going to get in at 3pm that day, so he hired another group of workers and told them he'd pay them $1 at the end of the day. Well the first group of workers got mighty mad and complained about the farmer paying the last group of men the same wage as them for doing less work. The farmer replied: When I hired you you agreed to those terms and hours and when I hired the other group they agreed to those terms and hours. Nobody got screwed you just should have waited until 3pm to see if I needed more workers. You got your "contract" and the others get theirs.

The moral of the story is "wait for your price" pay your price and not be upset because someone got a better deal or price. I am pretty much like the 2nd group as I always wait out the release of a game now.

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 2

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/2/2015 11:27:34 PM

tgb

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Poor analogy. A better one would be the farmer walking through the first group and tapping every two out of three random workers and tell them they would now be getting $2 an hour, everyone else is at the old rate of pay.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 3

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/2/2015 11:42:17 PM

thrudda

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The whole situation seems a bit weird. But yeah, at least you can console yourself with the Bible story.

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:04:59 AM

RealChuckB

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I don't want to get between the fronts of a flame war here, but wasn't the GamersGate offer a heavily discounted one ($10)? If so, I think customer have to understand that if you buy cheap serial numbers for games from third parties (such as Gamers Gate), it's not illegal of wrong but comes with the risk that it might not be fully supported (for example in connection with further discounts like here) by the original publisher.
My understanding is that sites like Gamers Gate buy "bulk" serials and then pass on the (or some) of the saving to the customers. I have bought from them, too.

If the GG offer wasn't discounted, it's a slightly different case (although still involving a third party and therefore with a certain "risk" attached).

I generally think that Slitherine/Matrix Games does a pretty good job of providing these types of discounts to "returning customers" and I really appreciate that they provide Steam keys at no extra cost. Yes, some of their serial number systems are ... dated and complicated (partially through acquisitions and new publisher relationship), such in connection with the old AGEOD keys but I would personally say that they are not one of the companies that intentionally screw their customers over.

My 10 cents, hope this can be resolved in your favor ultimately.

(in reply to thrudda)

Post #: 5

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:09:42 AM

tgb

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No, I paid full retail on Day One from GG. Even if I hadn't it shouldn't matter. Here's another analogy:

Ford discovers a problem with the steering on the 2015 Focus. Nothing life-threatening, but issues a recall of the car - only if you bought it from an official Ford dealership. If you bought your car from another lot or a private party, you don't qualify and have to live with the steering problem.

Does that sound right to you?

(in reply to RealChuckB)

Post #: 6

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:19:47 AM

WYBaugh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck B.

I don't want to get between the fronts of a flame war here, but wasn't the GamersGate offer a heavily discounted one ($10)? If so, I think customer have to understand that if you buy cheap serial numbers for games from third parties (such as Gamers Gate), it's not illegal of wrong but comes with the risk that it might not be fully supported (for example in connection with further discounts like here) by the original publisher.
My understanding is that sites like Gamers Gate buy "bulk" serials and then pass on the (or some) of the saving to the customers. I have bought from them, too.

If the GG offer wasn't discounted, it's a slightly different case (although still involving a third party and therefore with a certain "risk" attached).

I generally think that Slitherine/Matrix Games does a pretty good job of providing these types of discounts to "returning customers" and I really appreciate that they provide Steam keys at no extra cost. Yes, some of their serial number systems are ... dated and complicated (partially through acquisitions and new publisher relationship), such in connection with the old AGEOD keys but I would personally say that they are not one of the companies that intentionally screw their customers over.

My 10 cents, hope this can be resolved in your favor ultimately.

I bought the game from AGEOD directly for an extreme discount. I received the $20 upgrade so price should not be a consideration at all. If you purchased the game legally, as tgb did, then he should be given the upgrade.

(in reply to RealChuckB)

Post #: 7

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:43:57 AM

tgb

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Not just me, but everyone who bought it from GamersGate or Impulse.

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:51:12 AM

RealChuckB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tgb

No, I paid full retail on Day One from GG. Even if I hadn't it shouldn't matter. Here's another analogy:

Ford discovers a problem with the steering on the 2015 Focus. Nothing life-threatening, but issues a recall of the car - only if you bought it from an official Ford dealership. If you bought your car from another lot or a private party, you don't qualify and have to live with the steering problem.

Does that sound right to you?

Sorry, but that analogy misses the point: this is not about a defect of an item or a warranty that is not honored. This here is about a voluntary discount for an improved product for owners of the old product. I would call it a customer appreciation discount (which many companies would not grant). I can totally understand that, by being excluded, you do not feel appreciated as a paying customer and my guess is that the problem lies with the mechanism to verify that you are indeed an existing customer. It sounds like Matrix Games might not be able to verify the key/serial number you bought from a third party. Agree that this is not a satisfying situation for you but my point is that it's something different than being "screwed over" or a reason to completely cease your support but then again, this is of course up to you.

Again, I hope this gets resolved, I found Matrix Games generally to be a company that tries to make it work

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 9

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:55:30 AM

tgb

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I (and many like me) who own the product are being treated as "second class citizens" because of where we purchased it. That's not right, and there is no way to justify it.

At the very least the upgrade should be available through GG where a lot of us originally bought the game (again, at full retail) and there should be a way to get it to the Impulse customers as well.

< Message edited by tgb -- 7/3/2015 2:57:23 AM >

(in reply to RealChuckB)

Post #: 10

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 2:51:30 AM

Jim D Burns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tgb
That's not right, and there is no way to justify it.

Matrix is a vendor they are not responsible for what other vendors do. The money you paid went to GG and AGEOD and the money Matrix customers paid went to Matrix and AGEOD. Matrix is offering its customers the discount because Matrix already received a good chunk of profits from their customers for the first offering of this title, but they got nothing at all from you and so do not owe you a thing.

If anything you should be over at AGEOD complaining to them that they no longer have a business relationship with GG so perhaps AGEOD might want to offer the old GG customers something. But trying to hold Matrix responsible for this is completely unjust, Matrix has nothing to do with it.

Jim

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 3:30:01 AM

tgb

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You DO know that Matrix and Ageod are in partnership now, right? In fact, if you buy anything directly from Ageod, it's the same distribution system Matrix and Slitherine use.

They have been for 3 years

"
The Slitherine Group, world leaders in development and publishing of strategy games, and Ageod, Developer and Publisher of many strategy blockbusters are joining forces. This means that Slitherine, Matrix and Ageod, the three major players in the digital strategy and wargaming market, are now merged. The Group�s aim is to continue to expand this increasingly vibrant niche sector, not only through the variety and number of releases, but also by taking its titles to the new platforms on offer.

So in essence I AM talking to Ageod.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 12

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 3:55:16 AM

jwarrenw13

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I don't see the problem. Though I have bought Matrix and AGEOD games from Gamersgate in the past, I now buy solely from Matrix/AGEOD to better support them and for instances just like this. Though I do believe Matrix has sometimes honored discounts from sources like Gamersgate in the past as a favor, I see no obligation from them to do so.

I would also add the following.

It is always best never to buy the instant something comes out. Wait for the dust to settle

As for serial numbers, I always keep a copy of the game download and the serial number on an external hard drive. That has helped me out in the past.

And thanks for the discount.

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 13

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:02:22 AM

Sodei

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I must admit that I fail to grasp why tgb would not have access to a feature ( an upgrade kit classic DLC)that he would willing pay for because of the media he used to buy it... I won't go into any analogy presented before-hand. To me in this case, he did support the company, by the mean of a reseller, that reseller at that time fit to be acceptable (by the company and the buyer). Again, I just think that any owner of a valid RUS should have access to the extra brought by the GOLD upgrade.

In the end, to me if NO ONE had access to a discount, this discussion would be mute but since this is not the case, I think something will be made to compensate fairly. I have faith that no one will be left behind to enjoy the product.

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 14

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:08:04 AM

tgb

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Again, not just me. No one who bought from Impulse or GamerGate has access to the upgrade, not through any fault of our own, but because Matrix/Slitherine/Ageod no longer uses them for distribution.

(in reply to Sodei)

Post #: 15

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:24:24 AM

Jim D Burns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tgb
So in essence I AM talking to Ageod.

Pocus� merger announcement thread defiantly says they are still independent entities. Here�s a link to the topic:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?27293-AGEOD-Matrix-and-Slitherine-merged!-A-message-to-the-players

In it Pocus states:

quote:

Each entity will maintain its own identity,

Further I have read forum posts over the past couple of years by one or both of the Phillipe�s that have stated they still make more money if you buy games through their website, even though it looks almost identical to the Matrix site now.

So without having access to the specific legal language in their partnership agreements, I�d say it�s pretty clear there is still some level of developer/publisher in their relationship and this was not a true business merger in the sense they are all one big company now. And the fact older serial numbers were not included in the initial discount proves me right I�d say.

There is some discussion over on the AGEOD forum about getting GG serials the discount, so don�t lose hope. My guess is Matrix simply does not have access to those serial numbers and that�s why they don�t work yet. Perhaps GG is refusing to release them and wants the game made available for their own web vendor site?

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 7/3/2015 5:25:05 AM >

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:49:18 AM

Sodei

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I do follow and agree with Jim view of the more let's say legal sense of the situation, yet again in this issue I feel that there is an option for AGEOD who mostly did good by there supporter to offer some kind of support or at least a middle bridge. Even if the company (AGEOD) made different business deal in the last decade (im getting old...) they always worked to maintain a sense of responsabilit� toward there customer.

Even if I am a purist in the sense that I always bought through them, I sense that this issue should not divert into a bashing BEFORE an official statement or a reasonable amount of time as past. Yet again, as AGEOD is a separate entity, an official request could and SHOULD be made on there website.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 17

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 5:27:09 AM

danlongman

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I hate bible stories. Especially the one about Job.
That is why you never let supreme being get bored.
I bought a copy long ago for cheap from Gamersgate and played it for years.
I really liked it. So much so that when this version came out I bought it.
The other copy has been played for more than 100 hours or so over several years.
Have I "been screwed"? No. I had a copy for a long time and played it lots.
Somebody else now has the rights to this new improved version. Should I
automatically receive a free copy of the other version I bought long ago when
Matrix didn't handle it and didn't know they were going to be handling it?
Now I have a copy at Gamersgate, one at Matrix and one on Steam. This is a very good
game covering a fairly recent and important time period most people know
absolutely nothing about. Now some guy can growl at me about how "We don't roll over so easy"
but I don't know why I should get a reduced price copy of something I have been enjoying for years.

_____________________________

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 9:54:04 AM

zakblood

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please read this before posting

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3891221

so it can finally be put to rest

(in reply to danlongman)

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:01:44 PM

Gilmer

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I for one, think Ageod will come through for you guys. I would definitely go to their website. I have always had great customer service from them and as well as Matrix, but being this is an Ageod title, I would definitely go directly to them.

They ought to have a full Gold release and a Gold upgrade and the Gold Upgrade should be priced at 4.99 and work for all full previous versions. That way, they would have to have the original version to even want the upgrade kit. That's how they did it for Rise of Prussia, I believe.

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He that has a mind to fight, let him fight, for now is the time. - Anacreon

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Post #: 20

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 1:12:38 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

I for one, think Ageod will come through for you guys. I would definitely go to their website. I have always had great customer service from them and as well as Matrix, but being this is an Ageod title, I would definitely go directly to them.

They ought to have a full Gold release and a Gold upgrade and the Gold Upgrade should be priced at 4.99 and work for all full previous versions. That way, they would have to have the original version to even want the upgrade kit. That's how they did it for Rise of Prussia, I believe.

agree, think the RoP/Gold system was much neater and fairer all round. Fortunately Paradox never got their paws on the pricing decision of the original RuS so it was never sold at the silly (and game development destroying) prices they pushed Pride of Nations out for. So it took a long time (rightly) before RuS was available at significant discount.

Problem with the approach they are using is its clearly frustrating for some people and I can share that, as few people who bought from GG got it on the cheap. So at some stage, I'll pay again for a game that I have had a huge amount of excellent play out of (both SP and PBEM) and really enjoy revisiting the complexity and range of options. Wee bit frustrating but not exactly the end of the world.

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RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 2:54:49 PM

IainMcNeil

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Ageod do not have the serials. They were not stored unfortunately.

Rise of Prussia was much simpler because it was already on Steam. RUS is new to Steam and there is no way Steam were going to allow us to release a game that we are about to replace.

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Post #: 22

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 3:33:05 PM

tgb

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Here's a simple solution. Both GG and Impulse (I believe) allow you to see a list of games you own. I will gladly send a link to my list, showing I own a legitimate copy of the game, to customer service or even directly to Ian, in exchange for a functioning discount code.

I think that's only fair, and if Matrix/Slitherine can't be bothered to do even that much, it shows how sorry they really are.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

Post #: 23

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:26:02 PM

Xornox

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I have also Gamersgate version of the game. The game is great and I would like to get new features, but paying full price for them is too much. I have purchased huge amount of Matrix/Ageod -games and paid full prices for them. It does not feel fair that I should now buy essentially same game again for double price. I think that there are quite limited amount of customers like us and perhaps it would be possible arrange some kind of light purchase check process (=for example, screen shot of Revolution under siege serial from the Gamersgate account).

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 24

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:37:41 PM

zakblood

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the only question i want to ask is for both of you above is, why did you buy from where you bought it from?

if the answer is price, it was cheaper etc, why would another retailer offer you a discount on a upgrade when you didn't first place a order with them?

end of tbh, unless there's a good reason to think or comment on why it's fair or not fair, as life never is.

my example is, buy a operating system from Microsoft and install it on a apple computer, then moan at Microsoft for a upgrade not working on your system and see how far you get...

and tbh sites rules have always been there since day one, no steam key for games bought elsewhere, but support is freely given same as patches, but whole new versions, come on guys, get real and listen / read what the boss has put / written and let it lie and buy from the right place next time for the correct price instead of saving a cent's which could and in this case lost you money, many others haven't and there not complaining, and tbh if you have bought it from elsewhere, moan at them on there forum and see how much response / support / replies/ time they give you....

i feel this will be closed in the end, as message doesn't seem to be getting through, which is a shame...

(in reply to Xornox)

Post #: 25

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 4:40:16 PM

IainMcNeil

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Guys its not quite that simple. We would need to add all the codes to our system. This would take a huge amount of work. They need to be added to the coupon system, the serial system then hooked up with a discount allocated in different systems on different servers. This takes around 30-60 minutes to do which is why we batch process them. We simply cannot do this as a manual process on a one by one basis as if more than a handful of people requested it our support system would crumble under the load.

If we had the full list of serials we could batch process them but there are more than 20 different retailers who we would have to collect them from including Gamers Gate, Impulse and many many more. It's very unlikely they'd supply them - why would they. We have no deal with them, Paradox supplied the serials and they wouldn't be allowed to share them with us if they wanted. We'd need to get Paradox to contact them all to release the serials. Why would they do that? It's not that we don't want to do it, just that its simply beyond our resources to do this.

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Matrix Games

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Post #: 26

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 5:04:59 PM

tgb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Guys its not quite that simple. We would need to add all the codes to our system. This would take a huge amount of work. They need to be added to the coupon system, the serial system then hooked up with a discount allocated in different systems on different servers. This takes around 30-60 minutes to do which is why we batch process them. We simply cannot do this as a manual process on a one by one basis as if more than a handful of people requested it our support system would crumble under the load.

If we had the full list of serials we could batch process them but there are more than 20 different retailers who we would have to collect them from including Gamers Gate, Impulse and many many more. It's very unlikely they'd supply them - why would they. We have no deal with them, Paradox supplied the serials and they wouldn't be allowed to share them with us if they wanted. We'd need to get Paradox to contact them all to release the serials. Why would they do that? It's not that we don't want to do it, just that its simply beyond our resources to do this.

No it's not. I send you a link to my GamerGate page showing I own a legitimate copy of the game. You come up with a discount code, similar to the one you send beta testers and email it to me. It doesn't have to be a big production.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

Post #: 27

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 5:16:19 PM

ashandresash

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I thought it was not published by Paradox originally (as RoP or PoN) and it was an independent project developed under license over the AGE engine.

Anyway this is enough for me:

quote:

It's not that we don't want to do it, just that its simply beyond our resources to do this.

In the end it's just a market decision. You don't consider profitable using your resources this way (which I respect and understand) and I consider I have better gaming options for 24,99 � (but not for 4.99) right now. It's not perhaps the best solution, but... it's a solution.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

Post #: 28

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 5:17:02 PM

helm123456789

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tgb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Guys its not quite that simple. We would need to add all the codes to our system. This would take a huge amount of work. They need to be added to the coupon system, the serial system then hooked up with a discount allocated in different systems on different servers. This takes around 30-60 minutes to do which is why we batch process them. We simply cannot do this as a manual process on a one by one basis as if more than a handful of people requested it our support system would crumble under the load.

If we had the full list of serials we could batch process them but there are more than 20 different retailers who we would have to collect them from including Gamers Gate, Impulse and many many more. It's very unlikely they'd supply them - why would they. We have no deal with them, Paradox supplied the serials and they wouldn't be allowed to share them with us if they wanted. We'd need to get Paradox to contact them all to release the serials. Why would they do that? It's not that we don't want to do it, just that its simply beyond our resources to do this.

No it's not. I send you a link to my GamerGate page showing I own a legitimate copy of the game. You come up with a discount code, similar to the one you send beta testers and email it to me. It doesn't have to be a big production.

tgb, I'm in same situation. Bought it from Gamersgate some time ago for the backup file. There's a few very nice looking titles (nappy, 30 years war) on the horizon from AGEOD and I'd go ahead and save the cash for one of them. If your like me you like the original and it stills plays fine. Plus this isn't worth the frustration as there will be something new that will take up that time before the end of the year.

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 29

RE: Speaking As One Who Bought RUS On GamersGate - 7/3/2015 5:45:28 PM

tgb

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It's all good. Steam will have it for $5 at some point anyway. I'll consider this a lesson learned about what Matrix & Slitherine think of their customers.

(in reply to helm123456789)

Post #: 30