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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/20/2015 3:56:17 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		In my very first game I invaded Tarawa early June 1942. At first the attention it drew seemed overwhelming. But
the continual use of the KB and BB's overtime used up resources that by late 1943 the results become very apparent. Much
like somebody in their twenties spending like a drunken sailor and then retirement comes and nothing is saved up.

Dropping a division and supplies on a critical base with the intent of presenting a severe threat has the ability
to implement both strategic maneuver as well as operational exploits (like submarines in a created concentrated area) that
one knows will be a tactical nightmare until late 1943.

Just my .02 ...

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Post #: 451
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/20/2015 4:30:06 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

In my very first game I invaded Tarawa early June 1942. At first the attention it drew seemed overwhelming. But
the continual use of the KB and BB's overtime used up resources that by late 1943 the results become very apparent. Much
like somebody in their twenties spending like a drunken sailor and then retirement comes and nothing is saved up.

Dropping a division and supplies on a critical base with the intent of presenting a severe threat has the ability
to implement both strategic maneuver as well as operational exploits (like submarines in a created concentrated area) that
one knows will be a tactical nightmare until late 1943.

Just my .02 ...


I like your thinking sir!! Also, massed mines and/or other support islands with torpedo bombers, etc. There are too many dot islands out there to cover if he does not use carrier resources. And if he splits his carriers he could be in danger. And if I want him out of the area I just present a carrier force elsewhere and make him move.

I see plenty of opportunity here above and beyond the 5 destroyers and 1 CM I sent to the bottom.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/20/2015 5:34:36 PM   
Sangeli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Don't invest too heavily in Ndeni. It can't be held in the long term but you can force NJP to divert and prep more resources to it. I wouldn't try to build up the air base past level 2 or bring more support units but certainly if you could get more LCUs in there safely that could be a good idea. There simply isn't enough depth behind the position for you to hold it forever without CV support.


What's with all the negative waves man?? :P

Well, the situation is a little better here than I first thought once I realized how there are no Japanese bases nearby. Still, I think my analysis is correct. Right now Ndeni is out on a limb but seeing as how poorly NJP has allocated resources you may be able to get some depth behind the position before the Japanese can assault the base. If you can take Suva in early 43 Ndeni may just have a chance. But the air base there is more of a liability than an asset. Should the Japanese make a concerted effort to suppress the base with the KB nearby, there is nothing you can do to stop that. All of that damage will need to be repaired and a larger air base makes it take longer and use more supply. Better off just building up the fort and trying to get more LCUs there. Eventually you can build up the base and make good use of it but not for some time.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/20/2015 11:07:09 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Don't invest too heavily in Ndeni. It can't be held in the long term but you can force NJP to divert and prep more resources to it. I wouldn't try to build up the air base past level 2 or bring more support units but certainly if you could get more LCUs in there safely that could be a good idea. There simply isn't enough depth behind the position for you to hold it forever without CV support.


What's with all the negative waves man?? :P

Well, the situation is a little better here than I first thought once I realized how there are no Japanese bases nearby. Still, I think my analysis is correct. Right now Ndeni is out on a limb but seeing as how poorly NJP has allocated resources you may be able to get some depth behind the position before the Japanese can assault the base. If you can take Suva in early 43 Ndeni may just have a chance. But the air base there is more of a liability than an asset. Should the Japanese make a concerted effort to suppress the base with the KB nearby, there is nothing you can do to stop that. All of that damage will need to be repaired and a larger air base makes it take longer and use more supply. Better off just building up the fort and trying to get more LCUs there. Eventually you can build up the base and make good use of it but not for some time.

I was under the impression that a base had to have supplies to do repairs, but that the repairs do not use supply. Can anyone confirm which is the correct description of what happens during repairs to a base?

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Post #: 454
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 6:36:47 PM   
Mike McCreery


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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 6:44:57 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
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Status: offline 		October 5, 1942

First Direct attack goes in against Manila. Major disablement on the Japanese side.






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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 7:19:37 PM   
Crackaces


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Status: offline 		That looks like sys < 50% to me as no flames in the black smoke .. but the belt armor penetration means float damage
and somebody smarter than me like Alfred can tell you the parameters given the smoke level (I think there [are] four distinct levels)
and the critical hit message ...

But the Shoho will be out for sometime .. I do not think it will sink given no flames in the black smoke ...or dark black smoke ..

It will be interesting if a separate escort TF is created .. if so that will give a clue to how much damage has been taken ...

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 5/21/2015 10:35:10 PM >

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Post #: 457
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 8:31:59 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

That looks like sys < 50% to me as no flames in the black smoke .. but the belt armor penetration means float damage
and somebody smarter than me like Alfred can tell you the parameters given the smoke level (I think there is four levels)
and the critical hit message ...

But the Shoho will be out for sometime .. I do not think it will sink given no flames in the black smoke ...or dark black smoke ..

It will be interesting if a separate escort TF is created .. if so that will give a clue to how much damage has been taken ...


She was smoking before the torpedo hit ;] The torpedo penetrated the belt armor below the water level and caused serious damage. I doubt she will sink either but it is now a problem for NJP to escort her to be repaired. One more thing to worry about.

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Post #: 458
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 8:32:01 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

That looks like sys < 50% to me as no flames in the black smoke .. but the belt armor penetration means float damage
and somebody smarter than me like Alfred can tell you the parameters given the smoke level (I think there is four levels)
and the critical hit message ...

But the Shoho will be out for sometime .. I do not think it will sink given no flames in the black smoke ...or dark black smoke ..

It will be interesting if a separate escort TF is created .. if so that will give a clue to how much damage has been taken ...


Depends on when in the animation the screenshot was taken. That light smoke may be the system damage she was carrying when the fish hit.

The flame/smoke results of the hit likely wouldn't display until after the report shown in the image.

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Post #: 459
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 8:32:31 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

That looks like sys < 50% to me as no flames in the black smoke .. but the belt armor penetration means float damage
and somebody smarter than me like Alfred can tell you the parameters given the smoke level (I think there is four levels)
and the critical hit message ...

But the Shoho will be out for sometime .. I do not think it will sink given no flames in the black smoke ...or dark black smoke ..

It will be interesting if a separate escort TF is created .. if so that will give a clue to how much damage has been taken ...


Depends on when in the animation the screenshot was taken. That light smoke may be the system damage she was carrying when the fish hit.

The flame/smoke results of the hit likely wouldn't display until after the report shown in the image.


Beat me to it ;]

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Post #: 460
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 9:33:58 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		OK seems reasonable ... a picture after the torp hit would tell a lot ... you can bet on major damage at least float (20) [It has been my uneducated experience that any critical hits have a major nadir of 20 ?comments?]
It would be interesting to see if any bright flames were present after the hit (fires) vs. the flames buried in the smoke (Sys damage > 50%)

Tiny clues that give a lot of information ..

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Post #: 461
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 9:47:57 PM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline 		Wargmr-

Nice.

You better have dancing girls and good scotch for that sub captain when he returns to port!

Regards,

-Terry

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/21/2015 9:56:12 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Wargmr-

Nice.

You better have dancing girls and good scotch for that sub captain when he returns to port!

Regards,

-Terry

+1 ... a US sub getting an exploding Mark 14 hit in 1942! That is something of a miracle!

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Post #: 463
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/22/2015 12:49:39 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

OK seems reasonable ... a picture after the torp hit would tell a lot ... you can bet on major damage at least float (20) [It has been my uneducated experience that any critical hits have a major nadir of 20 ?comments?]
It would be interesting to see if any bright flames were present after the hit (fires) vs. the flames buried in the smoke (Sys damage > 50%)

Tiny clues that give a lot of information ..


I am not positive and I am not going back to check but it looked like one TF moved only 3 hexes last turn.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/22/2015 11:17:06 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

OK seems reasonable ... a picture after the torp hit would tell a lot ... you can bet on major damage at least float (20) [It has been my uneducated experience that any critical hits have a major nadir of 20 ?comments?]
It would be interesting to see if any bright flames were present after the hit (fires) vs. the flames buried in the smoke (Sys damage > 50%)

Tiny clues that give a lot of information ..


I've never been happy with the damage animations.

The very thick column of heavy smoke with flame embedded in it represents less damage than the thin column of smoke with a brighter flame.

I get the brighter flame representing heavier fires but I don't get the thinner column of smoke representing more damage than the thicker column of smoke.

Completely counter intuitive from a graphics standpoint.

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Hans


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Post #: 465
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/22/2015 3:57:12 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

OK seems reasonable ... a picture after the torp hit would tell a lot ... you can bet on major damage at least float (20) [It has been my uneducated experience that any critical hits have a major nadir of 20 ?comments?]
It would be interesting to see if any bright flames were present after the hit (fires) vs. the flames buried in the smoke (Sys damage > 50%)

Tiny clues that give a lot of information ..


I've never been happy with the damage animations.

The very thick column of heavy smoke with flame embedded in it represents less damage than the thin column of smoke with a brighter flame.

I get the brighter flame representing heavier fires but I don't get the thinner column of smoke representing more damage than the thicker column of smoke.

Completely counter intuitive from a graphics standpoint.


It took a second look from me .. but I agree it is counter-intuitive .. first game after the PH attack I noticed different animations. First, I thought it was random. Then I saw patterns.
Clicking the ships after the animation sealed the deal for me as I noticed the animations changed.

I rather think this is a cool detail that adds to the overall intelligence picture and gives some advantage to somebody willing to take the time to figure it out. There are probably a bunch of details I have yet to figure out making the game interesting over a longer period of time.

_____________________________

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Post #: 466
RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/22/2015 4:08:18 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Your playing Big Babes with lots more IJ stuff. The loss of 10% of oil going to supplies at refineries has a huge effect for the IJ in my opinion.
I understand there are extra LI factories but the 10% abstraction in stock has extra supplies distributed in oil refinery centers.
In the end .. it is my opinion that the loss of the 10% supply greatly penalizes the IJ when they make huge expansions far away from LI centers.

Supply has to be brought in at the cost of fuel ... the further the expansion the worse this situation becomes until collapse.

Oz presents its own bag of worms. From a systems point of view Supply has multiple dependencies besides the obvious. For example, to distribute supplies overland one has to build bigger bases which increases the supply to the base each pulse.
Such a situation exists between Alice Springs and Darwin. The common knowledge was that an attack near Darwin was impossible for the Allies .. then we figured out building max bases between these points eventually distributes enough supplies if available to supply a major offense.
But that takes an investment of supplies. Supplies the IJ in BigBabes just simply cannot bring to bare fast enough in Oz ..

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/29/2015 12:17:50 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		October 27, 1942

It has been a foot and air race up the east coast of Australia. Cooktown is 3 hexes closer to Rabaul than Ndeni is and it can be built into a level 9 airfield. So can Portland Roads. The current plan is to quickly build infrastructure to threaten Port Moresby, Horn Island and Rabaul.






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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/29/2015 1:33:18 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

OK seems reasonable ... a picture after the torp hit would tell a lot ... you can bet on major damage at least float (20) [It has been my uneducated experience that any critical hits have a major nadir of 20 ?comments?]
It would be interesting to see if any bright flames were present after the hit (fires) vs. the flames buried in the smoke (Sys damage > 50%)

Tiny clues that give a lot of information ..


I've never been happy with the damage animations.

The very thick column of heavy smoke with flame embedded in it represents less damage than the thin column of smoke with a brighter flame.

I get the brighter flame representing heavier fires but I don't get the thinner column of smoke representing more damage than the thicker column of smoke.

Completely counter intuitive from a graphics standpoint.


It took a second look from me .. but I agree it is counter-intuitive .. first game after the PH attack I noticed different animations. First, I thought it was random. Then I saw patterns.
Clicking the ships after the animation sealed the deal for me as I noticed the animations changed.

I rather think this is a cool detail that adds to the overall intelligence picture and gives some advantage to somebody willing to take the time to figure it out. There are probably a bunch of details I have yet to figure out making the game interesting over a longer period of time.

I think it's meant to mimic the effect of fires being dosed billowing greater clouds of smoke plus steam. The fiercer fires are probably also shooting their smoke up faster due to higher temperatures, hence a thinner looking column.

My attempt at rationalizing it!

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/29/2015 1:38:21 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		It's a computer graphic. Some are better than others. Who am I to judge?? :P

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/29/2015 1:41:59 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
It has been a foot and air race up the east coast of Australia. Cooktown is 3 hexes closer to Rabaul than Ndeni is and it can be built into a level 9 airfield. So can Portland Roads. The current plan is to quickly build infrastructure to threaten Port Moresby, Horn Island and Rabaul.

How do the Japanese defenses in the Solmons look compared to New Guinea? There is a big jump between NE OZ and New Guinea as well as between Ndeni and the Solmons. That's probably the biggest obstacle you will face in approaching Rabaul. Wherever you can make that jump first should be the primary push I think.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 5/29/2015 2:16:12 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
It has been a foot and air race up the east coast of Australia. Cooktown is 3 hexes closer to Rabaul than Ndeni is and it can be built into a level 9 airfield. So can Portland Roads. The current plan is to quickly build infrastructure to threaten Port Moresby, Horn Island and Rabaul.

How do the Japanese defenses in the Solmons look compared to New Guinea? There is a big jump between NE OZ and New Guinea as well as between Ndeni and the Solmons. That's probably the biggest obstacle you will face in approaching Rabaul. Wherever you can make that jump first should be the primary push I think.


What big jump? We are talking like 10 hexes or less... That is a quick in and out!!

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 12:08:46 AM   
Mike McCreery


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Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		Well, looks like I missed a bit of the AAR cause the game was not particularly exciting and I got bored with it.

Of course, good news brings me back.

We are now into January 1943.

I have built up the east coast of Australia up toward the north end and now have Townsville up to max level and am working on the bases further north.

I had managed to move some fragmented troops into Terapo and then airlift about 80AV into the base before NJP sent over an amphibious force to take them out.

There were not many troops seen at Horn Island and as this is a strategic stepping stone to preventing easy movement through the straight I loaded up a regiment for amphibious assault.

NJP laid a trap for me but I had a surface task force scouting ahead.

My smaller force ran into his force lead by the cruiser Ashigara. Fortunately the 2nd shot penetrates a magazine and blows the cruiser up. Unfortunately, the light cruiser does not survive the encounter. I fervently hope that pixellated gunnery crew survives to drink many more pixellated beers.








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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 12:17:48 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
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Status: offline 		Fiji is becoming more and more isolated every day. 4EB hit the runways on a daily basis.

I doubt NJP will be coming down to defend here when the time comes for an assault.




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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 12:29:54 AM   
Mike McCreery


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Status: offline 		NJP has decided to commit the KB and his forces to counter attack near Tabituea and Tarawa. He is taking the lightly defended islands behind Tabituea. My air force has yet to contest his movements.

This is annoying but Tabituea has over 1/4 million tons of supply and can hold out for a very long time.

My main thrust is going to come underneath this action but him taking some of these islands may be useful to provoke a later response and/or dilute the troops on my vector of approach.






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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 12:33:13 AM   
Mike McCreery


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Status: offline 		The cruisers embedded in the amphibious assault force on Horn Island make a mess of the SNLF based there.




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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 12:39:25 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
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Status: offline 		It appears the amphibious force landed in the beach rather than on it. That is what you get for 0 prep...






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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 12:44:52 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		Fortunately, the ability to fight one's way out of a wet paper bag was not required.






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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 1:17:51 AM   
Mike McCreery


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Status: offline 		State of the War January 1943.

Offensives are stalled across the board. Units will be starving soon at Tarawa although Tabituea is in great shape.

I have been sort of distracted by other things and also NJP has stepped up his air game quite a bit which has not allowed me to be able to even CAP my own bases when he is attacking from 8+ hexes away. This has slowed things down. Add to that reduced cargo capabilities, etc. Brisbane is smashed so 240 light industry is not producing. Debating whether to start it repairing or not.

If I can get NJP to think I am going to take the same route through Merauke and north it may have him reinforce those areas. My intention is to go all in on the east coast of Australia, take Port Moresby and push north and east heavily.

I can use the LBA air cover to protect myself and will be taking some of the dot islands south of PM for air support.

If NJP decides to defend this area and diverts the KB then I can use the time to reinforce or assault the Tabituea/Tarawa area with forces from Pearl Harbor.



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RE: Groundhog Day! - 7/5/2015 3:44:36 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Fortunately, the ability to fight one's way out of a wet paper bag was not required.






So ... did an attack by a unit with 0 AV take the island or no?

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