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H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/19/2003 12:12:27 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Hey Folks, check this one out:

http://artie.clone.cz/sphqladder/encyclopedia/

It's an outstanding tool for all H2H players made by Artie from the Czech Steel Panthers HQ.

This online encyclopedia has some really nice features (besides looking very good) like the comparison table (check in the navigation). There you can put together a table of units for direct comparison of the most important values by hitting the "+" in the list, to get a quick overview over selected units.

Also one of my favorites is the fact, that HEAT/APCR ammo is displayed unlike the in-game encyclopedia...as we have several similar tanks in H2H, that just differ in ammo loads, this is really very helpfull...

Great job, Artie and many thanks !

_____________________________

[URL=http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php] [IMG]http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/PzLeos-H2H-Title-1.jpg[/IMG] [/URL]

Mir nach, ich folge euch !

Post #: 1

- 3/19/2003 7:04:31 AM

Irinami

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!! :D

This is exactly what I've been dreading I'd have to make for myself!

_____________________________

Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 2

Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/19/2003 9:33:40 PM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]Hey Folks, check this one out:

http://artie.clone.cz/sphqladder/encyclopedia/

It's an outstanding tool for all H2H players made by Artie from the Czech Steel Panthers HQ.

This online encyclopedia has some really nice features (besides looking very good) like the comparison table (check in the navigation). There you can put together a table of units for direct comparison of the most important values by hitting the "+" in the list, to get a quick overview over selected units.

Also one of my favorites is the fact, that HEAT/APCR ammo is displayed unlike the in-game encyclopedia...as we have several similar tanks in H2H, that just differ in ammo loads, this is really very helpfull...

Great job, Artie and many thanks ! [/B][/QUOTE]
Leo,

How do I know what version of H2H am I using. Is there a home website to go to ensure that I am able to get the most update.

I strongly agree with the use of Sig 33 and the emission of dedicated artillery. But is it very hard to convert the russian SU 152 to artillery pieces too. But most likey of shorter range as the vertically transever is limited. I have read articles of Shermen also using their 75 mm gun as artillery. Even the 88 is very famous as a artillery pieces too. A battalion of su 152 bombard on a town and destroyed a number of German units during the closing curtain of German.

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 3

- 3/19/2003 9:47:16 PM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!! :D

This is exactly what I've been dreading I'd have to make for myself! [/B][/QUOTE]

Cannot download :(

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 4

- 3/19/2003 10:07:32 PM

Irinami

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by o4r
[B]Cannot download :( [/B][/QUOTE]

I may be reading you wrong, but there's nothing to download. It's a PHP application. You should be able to choose a nation, month, year, and formation type (and you must choose all 4), then click the 'Select' button and it will show you something similar to the purchase screen. It even works in the LYNX text-based browser.

If you still can't get it to work, what browser and OS are you using, and what's the error message?

_____________________________

Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 5

Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/20/2003 12:17:46 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by o4r
[B]Leo,

How do I know what version of H2H am I using. Is there a home website to go to ensure that I am able to get the most update.

I strongly agree with the use of Sig 33 and the emission of dedicated artillery. But is it very hard to convert the russian SU 152 to artillery pieces too. But most likey of shorter range as the vertically transever is limited. I have read articles of Shermen also using their 75 mm gun as artillery. Even the 88 is very famous as a artillery pieces too. A battalion of su 152 bombard on a town and destroyed a number of German units during the closing curtain of German. [/B][/QUOTE]

There is only one existing version of H2H, so you can't mix up anything (an older one was available for download on Fabio's site, but I doubt you got that from a year ago or so)...

The improvised arty issue:
Has always been a big debate :D
The reason why I modeled the two German guns IG18 and sIG33 as artillery pieces is, that they were equipped and used as short ranged infantry support artillery. They had the sights, different charges and personell like a heavy mortar unit (with observers and a calculation team for the battery). This made them able to engage targets like other arty units, although the preferred use was in a direct role. The game reflects this...if you use a IG18 indirect, the results are unsignificant at best - in direct role it becomes a real support. But the main reason I made these weapons able to fire indirect, is the fact that they could fire in upper registers (up to +70, if I recall right)...this means even a heavy piece like the sIG33 can be placed on a smaller map and be used as indirect fire weapon without becoming too unrealistic...if I now would put up a ISU-152, it simply would be extremely unrealistic to have it fire indirect at 1000m or the like, as it's max elevation of the gun is very limited...you would need a big ramp or something like that...
So the thing with the German guns is more a historical correction, as they're often referred to as pure infantry guns in direct fire role. That is only half of the truth and I tried to correct it. These weapons were real indirect weapons, not improvised ones, that's the difference to the Sherman or ISU. If you look at definitions of the German guns in books, that go deeper into detail, you will find them classed as "infantry howitzers" and not "infantry guns" - that pretty much reflects their actual use.

Also many of these improvised weapons were not used on a regular basis and I do not see a real benefit of them being in the game (besides the abuse - well you can't see the enmy, because he took cover behind a hill some 600m away...so you order your ISU-152 to lob some rounds behind it...that's certainly not what I want). What one could do without becoming unrealistic is, that you can model some improvised arty as offboard units. In the patch will be a 88 Battery available in the "rare" section, but it is some sort of "nice historical thing" to give to scenario designers. I could put in a Battery for the US like "Sherman support Battery" or so, but you would have a unit with worser values then a regular 75mm arty battery and another unit would have to leave the OOB, as the US is full (like the Russian and the British)...so in my eyes it's not woth it...I would not sacrifice any unit to get stuff like that in...or is there something you want to get rid off (like a Sherman M4A3E8) ;)

_____________________________

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 6

Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/20/2003 2:53:53 AM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]...I would not sacrifice any unit to get stuff like that in...or is there something you want to get rid off (like a Sherman M4A3E8) ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

As a proud Kat lover, I say go for it! Get rid of the Easy8!!:D

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 7

Re: Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/20/2003 2:57:24 AM

M4Jess

Posts: 5140
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: DC
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]As a proud Kat lover, I say go for it! Get rid of the Easy8!!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/em/080402/080402argh_prv.gif[/IMG]

_____________________________

Im making war, not trouble~

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 8

- 3/20/2003 4:39:25 AM

Krec

Posts: 548
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline

this program is great. thanks

_____________________________

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 9

Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/20/2003 7:13:53 PM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]There is only one existing version of H2H, so you can't mix up anything (an older one was available for download on Fabio's site, but I doubt you got that from a year ago or so)...

The improvised arty issue:
Has always been a big debate :D
The reason why I modeled the two German guns IG18 and sIG33 as artillery pieces is, that they were equipped and used as short ranged infantry support artillery. They had the sights, different charges and personell like a heavy mortar unit (with observers and a calculation team for the battery). This made them able to engage targets like other arty units, although the preferred use was in a direct role. The game reflects this...if you use a IG18 indirect, the results are unsignificant at best - in direct role it becomes a real support. But the main reason I made these weapons able to fire indirect, is the fact that they could fire in upper registers (up to +70, if I recall right)...this means even a heavy piece like the sIG33 can be placed on a smaller map and be used as indirect fire weapon without becoming too unrealistic...if I now would put up a ISU-152, it simply would be extremely unrealistic to have it fire indirect at 1000m or the like, as it's max elevation of the gun is very limited...you would need a big ramp or something like that...
So the thing with the German guns is more a historical correction, as they're often referred to as pure infantry guns in direct fire role. That is only half of the truth and I tried to correct it. These weapons were real indirect weapons, not improvised ones, that's the difference to the Sherman or ISU. If you look at definitions of the German guns in books, that go deeper into detail, you will find them classed as "infantry howitzers" and not "infantry guns" - that pretty much reflects their actual use.

Also many of these improvised weapons were not used on a regular basis and I do not see a real benefit of them being in the game (besides the abuse - well you can't see the enmy, because he took cover behind a hill some 600m away...so you order your ISU-152 to lob some rounds behind it...that's certainly not what I want). What one could do without becoming unrealistic is, that you can model some improvised arty as offboard units. In the patch will be a 88 Battery available in the "rare" section, but it is some sort of "nice historical thing" to give to scenario designers. I could put in a Battery for the US like "Sherman support Battery" or so, but you would have a unit with worser values then a regular 75mm arty battery and another unit would have to leave the OOB, as the US is full (like the Russian and the British)...so in my eyes it's not woth it...I would not sacrifice any unit to get stuff like that in...or is there something you want to get rid off (like a Sherman M4A3E8) ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Good reasoning. Accepted. So our SPWAW is still limited like before. I actually suggested to take out some country since their involvement in the war is at minimun, maybe someone could try that.

By the way, do you have English version of the H2H for German units. If not can I use the editor to correct them myself but I need a translation in the first place. pls assist :)

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 10

Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/21/2003 1:01:10 AM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]There is only one existing version of H2H, so you can't mix up anything (an older one was available for download on Fabio's site, but I doubt you got that from a year ago or so)...

The improvised arty issue:
Has always been a big debate :D
The reason why I modeled the two German guns IG18 and sIG33 as artillery pieces is, that they were equipped and used as short ranged infantry support artillery. They had the sights, different charges and personell like a heavy mortar unit (with observers and a calculation team for the battery). This made them able to engage targets like other arty units, although the preferred use was in a direct role. The game reflects this...if you use a IG18 indirect, the results are unsignificant at best - in direct role it becomes a real support. But the main reason I made these weapons able to fire indirect, is the fact that they could fire in upper registers (up to +70, if I recall right)...this means even a heavy piece like the sIG33 can be placed on a smaller map and be used as indirect fire weapon without becoming too unrealistic...if I now would put up a ISU-152, it simply would be extremely unrealistic to have it fire indirect at 1000m or the like, as it's max elevation of the gun is very limited...you would need a big ramp or something like that...
So the thing with the German guns is more a historical correction, as they're often referred to as pure infantry guns in direct fire role. That is only half of the truth and I tried to correct it. These weapons were real indirect weapons, not improvised ones, that's the difference to the Sherman or ISU. If you look at definitions of the German guns in books, that go deeper into detail, you will find them classed as "infantry howitzers" and not "infantry guns" - that pretty much reflects their actual use.

Also many of these improvised weapons were not used on a regular basis and I do not see a real benefit of them being in the game (besides the abuse - well you can't see the enmy, because he took cover behind a hill some 600m away...so you order your ISU-152 to lob some rounds behind it...that's certainly not what I want). What one could do without becoming unrealistic is, that you can model some improvised arty as offboard units. In the patch will be a 88 Battery available in the "rare" section, but it is some sort of "nice historical thing" to give to scenario designers. I could put in a Battery for the US like "Sherman support Battery" or so, but you would have a unit with worser values then a regular 75mm arty battery and another unit would have to leave the OOB, as the US is full (like the Russian and the British)...so in my eyes it's not woth it...I would not sacrifice any unit to get stuff like that in...or is there something you want to get rid off (like a Sherman M4A3E8) ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Leo,

See link, isu 152 and su 152 can elevate their gun high... they are used for both direct and indirect fire.

http://www.battlefield.ru/isu122_152.html

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 11

Re: Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/21/2003 3:19:03 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by o4r
[B]Leo,

See link, isu 152 and su 152 can elevate their gun high... they are used for both direct and indirect fire.

http://www.battlefield.ru/isu122_152.html [/B][/QUOTE]

You left out an important part: From time to time ;)

The elevation of the main gun was -3/+20

http://www.onwar.com/tanks/ussr/fisu152.htm

This is even bad for a cannon...that means, this gun has an incredible minimum range to fire indirect at (how will you engage a target indirect with +20 ?).
Therefore it would be automatically an offboard piece for the small SPWAW maps...so we got the same problem like the US...I can model a ISU-152 support battery (with weaker values then a regular 152mm battery), but have to take out a Russian unit to get the slot...the JS-II(M), maybe ? :D

So I simply do not have the room to model "nice historical" features, that otherwise do not improve the game really...

If there would be space, I would be the first to include stuff like this, but unless it is not an error like it is now, I see no choice.

I think it's even on the edge to have weapons like the 155mm GMC M12 or the Hummel in as onboard pieces, with elevations of +30 and +42...as comparison a Grille has one of +72...

Maybe here's some arty crack around...what are minimum ranges for a Hummel or a M12, e.g. ? Anyone ?

_____________________________

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Post #: 12

Re: Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/21/2003 5:19:48 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by o4r
[B]
By the way, do you have English version of the H2H for German units. If not can I use the editor to correct them myself but I need a translation in the first place. pls assist :) [/B][/QUOTE]

What about learning German ? :D

_____________________________

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Post #: 13

Encyclopedia - 3/21/2003 1:23:24 PM

chief

Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline

O4r:
The encyclopedia for H2H has a German tiltle and the English equivalent on the next line. Takes about 15 minutes to familarize yourself with German to American names.

Panzer Leo:
I like those pics you put in the ency. also. Can't wait for the updates.

As they say, "Try it you'll like it":D :) :cool:

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

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Post #: 14

- 3/22/2003 8:13:50 PM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

Well maybe the language is one main reason it is still not accepted by everyone and still not intergrated into Matrix OOB.

Have you ever bought a superb game which run in other language and try to learn its language or wait for it to convert to English?

Think about it.

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 15

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: H2h The Encyclopedia - 3/22/2003 8:15:40 PM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]What about learning German ? :D [/B][/QUOTE]

BY the way, Leo,

I am seriously trying to convert your text back to English but there is alot of other unit which I really do not know. Maybe you could provide a document or etc so that I could do it myself.

Thank you ;)

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 16

Against AI - 3/23/2003 12:51:19 AM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

After intensive testing on solo campagin, Leo, I discoverd that in H2H, it is easier to defeat German than in the original version.

German unit now use less tanks unit and heavily concentrate on artillery. They now purchase only less than one company of infantry when ask to advance but they purchase nearly 1 to 2 battalion of MG...I will use my scout combined with one to 2 section of tanks and take them out one by one!!! But their artillery aersnel is increlible but tends to be useless (I will explain later). They will purchase up to 1 battery of AA, a section to a platoon of tank and only 1 battery of AT when asked to delay. If given opporunity, Aircraft is sure to purchase when they are given the choice.

When my unit in constant movement, their artillery will always remain silent. They will only start artillery bombarment only when your unit didnt move for a turn. Any unit spotted by them not move for a turn will be subject to intensive artillery fire. So move every unit, the AI will never use their artillery at all.

In Assualt situation, the AI purchase only 1 company of combat Engineer and alot of MG again.???? Their artillery again stands for 60 to 70 percent of the purchasing point. Such setting of using alot of artillery is good only in assualt and defending position but when the on situation for delay and advance then mobility is more important.

Well a situation I just want to let you know. Maybe the Mech file needed to be fixed. But you OOB file is still consider to be slightly more accurate than the original version.

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 17

- 3/25/2003 10:03:56 AM

Irinami

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline

I have no problems with the German. If the Japanese weren't so terribly long in Romaji (their writing is "zipped" ;) ;) ), I'd like that too. Then again, I'm used to anime purists, so I'm comfortable with having to learn and/or extrapolate what something's name is.

_____________________________

Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 18

Re: Against AI - 3/25/2003 7:00:27 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by o4r
[B]After intensive testing on solo campagin, Leo, I discoverd that in H2H, it is easier to defeat German than in the original version.

German unit now use less tanks unit and heavily concentrate on artillery. They now purchase only less than one company of infantry when ask to advance but they purchase nearly 1 to 2 battalion of MG...I will use my scout combined with one to 2 section of tanks and take them out one by one!!! But their artillery aersnel is increlible but tends to be useless (I will explain later). They will purchase up to 1 battery of AA, a section to a platoon of tank and only 1 battery of AT when asked to delay. If given opporunity, Aircraft is sure to purchase when they are given the choice.

When my unit in constant movement, their artillery will always remain silent. They will only start artillery bombarment only when your unit didnt move for a turn. Any unit spotted by them not move for a turn will be subject to intensive artillery fire. So move every unit, the AI will never use their artillery at all.

In Assualt situation, the AI purchase only 1 company of combat Engineer and alot of MG again.???? Their artillery again stands for 60 to 70 percent of the purchasing point. Such setting of using alot of artillery is good only in assualt and defending position but when the on situation for delay and advance then mobility is more important.

Well a situation I just want to let you know. Maybe the Mech file needed to be fixed. But you OOB file is still consider to be slightly more accurate than the original version. [/B][/QUOTE]

That the AI behaves different in H2H is due to the severe structural changes in the German OOB...the AI picks his units by slots, as far as I now, but H2H was never optimized on that...so weird purchase behaviour on AI side might occur...there's nothing I can do about it :(

_____________________________

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 19

Re: Re: Against AI - 3/27/2003 10:51:28 PM

o4r

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]That the AI behaves different in H2H is due to the severe structural changes in the German OOB...the AI picks his units by slots, as far as I now, but H2H was never optimized on that...so weird purchase behaviour on AI side might occur...there's nothing I can do about it :( [/B][/QUOTE]

We know it is not your fault. Cheers :D

Hey! seriously can convert them to English pls pls pls pls

(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 20