RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/13/2015 1:48:45 PM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

June 11th, 1942

The Fall of Kunming

Ground combat at Kunming (69,48)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18404 troops, 341 guns, 458 vehicles, Assault Value = 566

Defending force 46759 troops, 129 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 508

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 394

Allied adjusted defense: 190

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kunming !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
493 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 24 (1 destroyed, 23 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
17092 casualties reported
Squads: 322 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 1083 destroyed, 77 disabled
Engineers: 86 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 85 (85 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 24
Units destroyed 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

No Answer for the P-38E

Doesn't seem to matter. I've verified I have Radar in the hex. I haven't shot one down yet.

Morning Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 39,550 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 41
A6M3 Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
P-38E Lightning x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 10 destroyed
A6M3 Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 6 destroyed

CAP engaged:
Genzan Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
6th Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 17 on standby, 9 scrambling)
24 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 29070.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 36,550 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x P-38E Lightning sweeping at 34550 feet

CAP engaged:
6th Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 104 minutes

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/13/2015 3:10:21 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 361

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/13/2015 1:51:11 PM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

June 12th. 1942

More Carnage in Burma

In spite of having CAP and LRCAP, 8 Sentai of Fighters all within 2 hexes of each other, I still have no answers.

Afternoon Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 35,550 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 19

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P-38E Lightning sweeping at 34550 feet

CAP engaged:
Genzan Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(10 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
50th Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 34,550 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 1
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 5

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x P-38E Lightning sweeping at 34550 feet

CAP engaged:
Genzan Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 26000 and 26245.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/13/2015 3:08:59 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 362

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/13/2015 3:19:56 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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We have been down this road before.

You are outnumbered. In the first fight you have 9 planes meeting the sweep to begin with. You are going to lose. Period. Plus more Oscars than Zeroes. Plus your CAP at the same altitude. What do you expect to happen?

Why are you even fighting over that base in the first place? It is not like it is Magwe.

You don't have radar warning to use interlocking bases - look at the warning time. The planes simply cannot respond fast enough. Read the air battle -- all the details are there. You have 8 Sentai of fighters, and yet your response is 26 planes of which only 9 are present for the first go. Concentrate your planes in one base! You need 60+ in the air meeting the sweep (not 9

), with the vast majority Zeroes and not toothless Oscars.

If you can't amass that many planes, and decent pilots, why fight?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/13/2015 5:57:38 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 363

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/13/2015 3:49:32 PM

vicberg

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Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

Yep, you are right. I've pulled out of that base. Everything is concentrated at Magwe. I have a lot of radar and AA at Magwe. I'm stood today down recovering morale ATM. I'm really not worried about the airframe or pilot losses right now. I will be if this continue. I'm experimenting right now to learn air defense mechanics and yes and I haven't been fully listening. My Bad.

So riddle me this Batman. It's 1943 of later. There's potentially multiple targets that can be hit in the home islands. How does one defend multiple bases. I'm starting to see the need for point defense. Got that now. But how do other bases contribute? LRCAP set to say 20%? 40%? Cap with Escort set to a specific hex (guessing game). CAP or LRCAP with a max hex range within the bases you want to support?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 364

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/13/2015 5:07:10 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg
So riddle me this Batman. It's 1943 of later. There's potentially multiple targets that can be hit in the home islands. How does one defend multiple bases. I'm starting to see the need for point defense. Got that now. But how do other bases contribute? LRCAP set to say 20%? 40%? Cap with Escort set to a specific hex (guessing game). CAP or LRCAP with a max hex range within the bases you want to support?

Suck it up! & Keep your sense of humor

Realize what goes around comes around.

Seriously, if he is in range of Honshu in 43 you are in deep trouble.

You should be able to do better, especially if you keep the KB intact and plan to have lots of fighters and trained pilots. One without the other is fairly worthless.

LRCAP builds fatigue, but certainly has its place.

The best defense is a strong offense. Make Georges out the kazoo and sweep him so that you control the skies you start with Nicks & Tojo since they come earlier. After Georges, Franks are great...you got some really good planes to make. Get Frank in 3rd Quarter 1943 and KI100 shortly after.

You can read Spidery vs Mr.Kane to see what a relatively passive air defense for Japan nets you. Then you can read Mr.Kane vs Greyjoy to see a great offensive Japan in the air. Then you can read mine to see how not to do it.

Koniu's is great too!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/13/2015 6:07:40 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 365

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/13/2015 6:48:24 PM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

June 13th, 1942

Air War in Burma

He had no CAP at all, which is what I expected. There's some serious AA there though. Extended range reduced the affects

Morning Air attack on Chittagong , at 55,41

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 48

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 31 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 6 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 24 damaged
Hurricane IIb Trop: 6 destroyed on ground
P-38E Lightning: 5 damaged
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 34

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 366

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/14/2015 1:35:32 PM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

And yet more confusion. I'm under the impression reading the rules that you need an AF size 7 and 20k of supplies to upgrade and air unit. An Air HQ will reduce these requirements. However, I looked at upgrading a unit of zeroes and forgot to shut the upgrade option off and on a size 2 airfield (Pagan) with less than 20k of supplies, it upgraded. How did this happen?

Also, a unit of A6M2 on a CVE upgraded to a non-CV capable model (A6M3b).

Whats going on here?

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 367

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/14/2015 1:47:07 PM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

And another question. An ACM supports up to 150 mines (to my understanding). A local minsweeper (AMc) seems to do the same thing from what I'm seeing, but how many mines does it support?

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 368

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/14/2015 2:23:56 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

And yet more confusion. I'm under the impression reading the rules that you need an AF size 7 and 20k of supplies to upgrade and air unit. An Air HQ will reduce these requirements. However, I looked at upgrading a unit of zeroes and forgot to shut the upgrade option off and on a size 2 airfield (Pagan) with less than 20k of supplies, it upgraded. How did this happen?

Air unit was within transfer range of a base that met these requirements. One reason I prioritize building up Rabaul quickly as there is no base in SoPac that can met these conditions.

_____________________________

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 369

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/15/2015 2:54:12 AM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

June 16th, 1942

Continued Sadness in Burma

So this time, I had altitude with my first armored zero and still no joy. He had numbers on me. Not as bad as before with only 4-1 losses. However, though 4 destroyed, another 10 lost upon landing. So really, 14-1 again.

Morning Air attack on Chittagong , at 55,41

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 13 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3b Zero x 27

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 54

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3b Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x A6M3b Zero sweeping at 31000 feet

CAP engaged:
AVG/1st Sqn with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 18 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 23000 , scrambling fighters between 23000 and 26600.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 18 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 26600.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 370

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/15/2015 1:18:52 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

He had numbers on me.

This is where the rubber hits the road. Have fun!!

_____________________________

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 371

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 12:32:04 AM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

June 27th, 1942

Why I stopped playing this game

There are times I remember why I stopped playing this game. This is one of those times. He's has close to 300k of troops in a 160k stacking limit hex. Yet...

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 116237 troops, 1161 guns, 603 vehicles, Assault Value = 3009

Defending force 206934 troops, 811 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6394

Japanese adjusted assault: 758

Allied adjusted defense: 7071

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 9 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
20404 casualties reported
Squads: 613 destroyed, 1541 disabled
Non Combat: 58 destroyed, 442 disabled
Engineers: 50 destroyed, 124 disabled
Guns lost 211 (21 destroyed, 190 disabled)
Vehicles lost 390 (44 destroyed, 346 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
2635 casualties reported
Squads: 34 destroyed, 197 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 70 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 27 (2 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Assaulting units:
13th Division
15th Tank Regiment
2nd Ind Engineer Regiment
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
5th Tank Regiment
26th Division
39th Division
110th Division
6th Division
3rd Division
40th Division
11th Tank Regiment
63rd Division
13th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
9th Division
12th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
37th/B Division
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Army
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
North China Area Army
23rd Army
11th Army
3rd Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
90th Chinese Corps
39th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
38th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
17th Chinese Corps
83rd Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
15th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
14th Construction Regiment
18th Artillery Regiment
China Command
49th AA Regiment
20th Group Army
14th Group Army
6th Group Army
41st AA Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
CAF HQ
22nd Artillery Regiment
2nd Group Army
20th Artillery Regiment
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
13th Group Army
7th Artillery Regiment
18th Group Army
19th Group Army
7th Group Army
Central Reserve
3rd Group Army
56th AT Gun Regiment
21st Group Army
6th Chinese Base Force

ASW - Arming Spit Wads

Bill has about 8 subs parked just off Yokohama. I welcomed that as I can run out with my best ASW ships (6 value and 8 value) and I'm close to a port if I take a fish. yet in about 3 weeks of daily ASW battles, I've yet to score a single hit. On the other hand, every ASW attack is scoring at least 1 hit against me. Doesn't bode well for the future

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 372

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 1:01:57 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Let them marinate in the over stacking sauce. Tenderize with air strikes and ground bombardments.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 373

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 3:25:18 PM

vicberg

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
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I'd like to believe that. We'll see. I've been taking out his supply every day with over 200 bombers. I've seen his AV go up daily after reviewing daily bombardments. The above combat implies that being over-stacked didn't hurt him, unless there's some exception for Chungking for stacking that I'm unaware of. Around 30 Chinese Corp, all around 200 AV = approx the 6,000 AV I'm up against.

How does Chinese replacements work? I'm also seeing Wenchow AV go up.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 374

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 3:29:28 PM

vicberg

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Joined: 4/19/2008
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So after reading the rules, if I destroy a unit it pops back up in Chungking at 1/3 it's TOE. So by chasing down these stragglers, I just shot myself in the foot with taking Chungking. How does the 350 replacement rule work?

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 375

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:27:57 PM

vicberg

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Joined: 4/19/2008
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Revised China Strategy

If it's crappy Sallies or crappy pilots (average around 65-70), I'm unable to remove enough supply to take out his replacements. Even if I had 10 full strength (450 AV) divisions which would take me close to stacking limits (160K) that would put me at 4500 AV versus 6000 AV, not including forts. Daily Arty bombardments were getting me about 100 casualties. I've set 6 Sentia to ground bombardment, but from what I'm seeing, the entire 300k of Chinese troops are protected by the level 6 forts. A serious gap/design flaw in the game. I'm seeing same thing with Wenchow.

So, Chungking (and Wenchow) will hold. Divisions will retreat to the various bases in the area and I'll wait for him to come out of his hiding place. Lesson learned in terms of China. 1) Don't destroy stragglers, 2) Suppress Chungking early and often, 3) Don't get involved in a land war in Asia.

I'll shift remaining divisions towards Burma and call it good with China (until he feels comfortable to come out and counter attack). I'll continue to suppress the airfield in Chungking to prevent anything from using it.

As stated many times, I have issues with this ground combat system. Always have. Caused me to get so frustrated that I stopped multiple games before. I'm not going to stop this time, but it's really forcing me to re-evaluate to work around the problems with this system. If I were a developer (and I am) and working on this game (and I'm not), I'd take all fatigue, disruption and combat results and multiply them by 1/2, leaving supply costs the same. That would be the start. I'd also limit attacking and defending AV to stacking limits and increase losses above stacking limits as a percentage of the degree of being over-stacked. Bill is almost 90% over-stacked and his losses should be increased by 90%.

Unfortunately, my entire strategy was China and is now blown in part to killing Chinese units which suddenly reappear in an isolated city, by not understanding the resource AI such that I'm having to pull from Singers to Hong Kong and because of some serious weirdness with stacking limits (which should NOT have allowed 6000 AV nor allow forts to protect 6000 AV and looks like it is).

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 376

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:32:31 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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Get some serious artillery there. Three mountain guns, 1 mortar and 2 medium field artillery unit isn't going to cut it.

Are you bombing the troops or the runways? Or both?

post a picture showing the open hexsides...

What is the prep like for your units...including the HQ chain.

What was fatigue and disruption like in the troops the day before you attacked?

Why do you think it should be easy?

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 377

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:36:40 PM

vicberg

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I don't think it should be easy. I don't think that when playing with stacking limits, the entire over-stacked hex should be included in combat. I don't think forts should protect the entire hex, only up to 160k worth. But, I understand that stacking limits came after the initial versions of the game and I'm starting to sense (30 years of programming here) that it was implemented in a partial manner.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 378

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:41:39 PM

GetAssista

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Bomb away all supply generation in Chungking and continue bombarding and bombing the airfield. He wont be able to keep all those units supplied with what is autogenerated, let alone use the replacements.It just takes time. This would be a long siege, you are looking on several months before you can seriously think about deliberate attacks to chip away at forts.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 379

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:43:11 PM

vicberg

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I'm officially done with China though. Chungking and Wenchow will hold. The 25th Army will continue it's push to Burma.

I have no desire to want to go up against those forts. I made two big mistakes crossing into Chungking over a river (and strange rule...if you cross you have to shock attack even if you already have units on the other side of the river and already own the hex side), makes no sense whatsoever. "Hey guys, we already have a bridgehead, why are you attacking?" "Because we have too, no choice"

Just learning how to work around the ground combat system and it is a work around. I'd overhaul it entirely if I had the chance.

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 380

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:45:57 PM

vicberg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Bomb away all supply generation in Chungking and continue bombarding and bombing the airfield. He wont be able to keep all those units supplied with what is autogenerated, let alone use the replacements.It just takes time. This would be a long siege, you are looking on several months before you can seriously think about deliberate attacks to chip away at forts.

That's the plan. I'll move out and let my divisions replenish and continue to take supply out. It's good experience while I'm waiting for the Helen II.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 381

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 4:58:36 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg
...and strange rule...if you cross you have to shock attack even if you already have units on the other side of the river and already own the hex side), makes no sense whatsoever. "Hey guys, we already have a bridgehead, why are you attacking?" "Because we have too, no choice"

No, it's not strange or stupid. You crossed with too much AV compared to what was already there. This required rapid bridgehead expansion to fit all new troops in, hence shock attack. If you crossed with <30% of AV already there it would all be fine.

(in reply to vicberg)

Post #: 382

RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 5:30:20 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
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From: Alberta, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg
...and strange rule...if you cross you have to shock attack even if you already have units on the other side of the river and already own the hex side), makes no sense whatsoever. "Hey guys, we already have a bridgehead, why are you attacking?" "Because we have too, no choice"

No, it's not strange or stupid. You crossed with too much AV compared to what was already there. This required rapid bridgehead expansion to fit all new troops in, hence shock attack. If you crossed with <30% of AV already there it would all be fine.

There is so much confusion regarding river crossings. Let me try to help.

The first time you perform a river assault across a hex side the result is a shock attack...period. To avoid any further shock attacks across the same hex side you must have initially crossed the hex side with no less than 1/3 of the defenders unadjusted AV. In this case looking at the numbers from your combat, you would have had to make an initial attack with 2110 AV to avoid further shock attacks from follow up troops across the same hex side. This will remain the case until that 1/3 threshold is met. So unless you have another 2200 AV to cross the same hex side, you will always have subsequent shock attacks through this hex side, or any other one, with anything less than 2200 AV. Hope this helps clarify river crossings somewhat.

Taking Chungking requires patience. Once supply is gone the Chinese defence will simply erode. You attacked too soon and didn't let lack of supply become a factor. It takes months to reduce the combat effectiveness of a defence through lack of supply. If the Chinese AV is increasing, it is from recovering disablements. Recovering disablements does not use supply. I do agree though, a hex that over stacked should see a (-)disruption modifier applied to the Chinese, why is wasn't in this case is beyond me.

I hope this helps.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 8/17/2015 6:32:22 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 5:58:12 PM

vicberg

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Forts weren't carried through in the code with stacking limits. I'll be able to prove this next turn. They are protecting all 300k of troops. Thus no disruption.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/17/2015 7:00:49 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 6:08:36 PM

vicberg

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Thanks. I didn't know the 1/3 rule for river crossings. Good to know

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 6:30:23 PM

witpqs

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The stacking limit will ensure that the troops in Chungking have little to no supply at all. Below the stacking limit but with supply they would fight better. Look at my AAR to see how Walter broke down Chungking.

What do you mean by the "350 replacement rule"?

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 6:40:55 PM

Lowpe

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And that river crossing is per hexside...once you close a hexside, the defenders can't escape that way or supplies flow that way. So for Chungking, you only need to close once.

I am no expert on overstacking, but the penalties as I understand them are higher supply usage and greater disruption. I believe all defenders will get the benefits of the existing forts.

Also note that the respawning Chinese troops are simply the infantry type devices. No heavy weapons.

You can fly some divebombers in, or fly a squadron at 2000 feet, to see how much supply is left in the troops as they will fire their machine guns at you (if they have them).

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 6:41:59 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The stacking limit will ensure that the troops in Chungking have little to no supply at all. Below the stacking limit but with supply they would fight better. Look at my AAR to see how Walter broke down Chungking.

What do you mean by the "350 replacement rule"?

I think he means the monthly infantry squad replacement rate?

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 6:45:47 PM

Lowpe

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Also in this case, troops without supply will get penalized, but it may very well be totally offset by the forts and HQ bonus, depending upon rolls, disruption and disablements, etc. No supply doesn't mean they won't fight.

Every day you want to disable Chinese troops thru bombing and bombarding, because then they are combat ineffective. Disabled troops with no supply can die each day too.

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 6:57:21 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The stacking limit will ensure that the troops in Chungking have little to no supply at all. Below the stacking limit but with supply they would fight better. Look at my AAR to see how Walter broke down Chungking.

What do you mean by the "350 replacement rule"?

I think he means the monthly infantry squad replacement rate?

That takes supply and then the troops just pulled from the replacement pool need supply. Plus replacements are always at the national minimum for experience (not tracked for individual squads, they just pull down the unit experience).

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