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Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (... - 8/18/2015 1:50:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Here we go again, another pickup.

This is a scen 30 game with PDU off. Souped up Jacks, Georges, and Tonies, deadly AA, scenario 2 base.

I am picking up the game after Olorin ran roughshed over the Allies capturing Pear Harbor, Port Moresby, and the Aluetians all by mid February 1942.

Oh my! Words can't convey how well Olorin has done.

Here is his AAR:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3864684

Many thanks for Olorin and Jocke for allowing me to pick up the game...it has set the ground for some strategies that are pretty unique. Hats off to Lokasenna, with whom I have bounced off several thought provoking emails.

I probably won't be doing as heavy an AAR, at least initially, with this game. But I will put up a bunch of pictures now, so you can see just how well Olorin has done.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/22/2017 2:44:45 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 1:52:29 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		This will be an important theatre going forward. This game will continue the full speed advance....




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/18/2015 2:52:54 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 1:54:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		However, one the early stumbling blocks might be the devastation that is Pearl Harbor.

Low on supplies, no fuel. Oh my! But there are a ton of ships here, and they seem to have fairly generous fuel bunkers.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 1:57:47 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		The SRA.

My first turn saw the Dutch subs strike at two tankers. Tankers that are heading to fill up and make the horrendously long trip to Truk and Pearl. Is that the most efficient way to get fuel to Pearl? Have to research it.

My first concern here was saving some of the tankers, they are under escorted, and there isn't enough planes on ASW so I moved some in, diverted some tankers to safer harbors, and temporarily put some destroyers on ASW work.

I need that fuel for ships.




Ambon was invaded, with the CD guns there wreaking havoc. But I think enough is landed to take the island, and I have pulled everyone back (I hope). I despise Ambon. Another invasion force is lined up to take Denpassar...

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/18/2015 2:59:44 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 2:11:16 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		From what I understand the big fight has been here. Only 7 Allied units down south in Soerabaja.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 5
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 2:12:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Port Moresby area....




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 2:12:46 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Burma




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 2:20:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Some day 1 action:







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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/18/2015 6:06:27 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 8
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 3:08:09 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		You might find useful reading the October 2010 posts of mine in this AAR.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2518166&mpage=10&key=Pearl%2CHarbor

Attention in particular to posts

284
285
297
306
308

I don't know what Olorin initially intended but in view of what he has accomplished here I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had looked at post #306 in particular.  There are other AARs where I mention Pearl Harbor.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 9
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 3:36:38 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		In other words then Alfreds: You are in a good position to push your advantage in the Pacific using Pearl and the Al. islands as a forward base for WC operations..

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 10
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:03:28 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Olorin has shared with me his game plan. Audacious it is. Breathtaking in scope.

This will be a spirited offence aimed at auto victory.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 11
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:13:52 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Cannonfodder,

Yes, but it depends what one has in mind.

The fact of the matter is that the game mechanics and flexibility provide Japanese players with many options.  It is just that most players just follow what is in fashion at the time.  Back in 2010 the fashion was to invade India whereas back then I said on several occasions that Australia was a better option.  Not until some years later did someone invade Australia for the purposes I hinted at and we saw Joc Meister resigning in the middle of 1942.

The key factors are:

1. Focus
2. Logistics
3. Think of mission objectives like a professional human military officer would
4. Treat it as a real world problem solving exercise and not a "fun" exercise of blowing things up

To bring it back to your specific point, yes but know the limitations.  Going into the PH and the Aleutians, particularly this early, can only be justified if the axis is to be continued eastward.  So then the question is what is realistically feasible.  Capturing San Francisco probably isn't on the cards but there are many other worthwhile options.  It isn't as if Japan has to remain on the West Coast until January 1945 for it to have been a worthwhile effort.  And if the Allied dispositions are such to foil such a venture, precisely because it has the interior lines Japan can switch to other fronts.

Alfred

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 12
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:36:16 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		China

It is still early...




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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 13
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:39:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Fortress Luzon




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 14
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:45:59 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		At last, an AAR where you seem to be doing well :)

Looking at what I can gather from the screenshots, I'd be looking to make one big last offensive for the sake of VP's (perhaps Alaska or Western Canada) before pulling back to consolidate the DEI and clear out Luzon. Once that is done, I would make knocking China out of the war your goal for the second half of 1942.

I can't stress the importance of knocking out China in terms of freeing up good combat units early in the war. This is even more important considering how you'll have even more territory to defend.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 15
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:57:09 PM   
Olorin


Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/22/2008
From: Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I can't stress the importance of knocking out China in terms of freeing up good combat units early in the war. This is even more important considering how you'll have even more territory to defend.


Canada & China would be my main focus as well, come May when the 21st Army is assembled in Indochina. I think the Chinese Army is now out of position in the northern forests and lost whatever mobility it initially had. Had also planned for 15th Army to attack Yunan from Burma.

I have gathered all the para units Japan has in the Aleutians, thinking they would prove useful in the mountains of Canada. Remember, Jocke asked me if he could use Americans to garrison Canada and I agreed. So, expect at least two divs at Prince Rupert.

Obviously this is your game now and I'll be following with interest. Good luck!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

You might find useful reading the October 2010 posts of mine in this AAR.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2518166&mpage=10&key=Pearl%2CHarbor

Attention in particular to posts

284
285
297
306
308

I don't know what Olorin initially intended but in view of what he has accomplished here I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had looked at post #306 in particular. There are other AARs where I mention Pearl Harbor.

Alfred


Yes, I read the discussion in that link, as well as the Hortlund vs Canoerebel AAR. It's up to Lowpe now to show us what is feasible and what is not.

< Message edited by Olorin -- 8/18/2015 6:03:11 PM >

_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 16
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 4:58:04 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Pearl looks bad, but it will repair.

Gotta agree with the above, finishing off Alaska, maybe a base in range of WP VPs for bombing (Coal Harbour maybe?) and finish off China.

Try not to lose the KB!

_____________________________


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 17
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:07:42 PM   
Olorin


Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/22/2008
From: Greece
Status: offline 		Peal Harbor is wrecked. A setback surely, but if you intend to continue the eastward advance, you might want to consider spending some supplies to repair the shipyard, at least partially.

_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 18
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:08:49 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled
Try not to lose the KB!



No worries Jocke and I both have excellent histories with carrier engagements.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 19
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:11:53 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Major ship losses:




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 20
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:13:39 PM   
Olorin


Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/22/2008
From: Greece
Status: offline 		You can add Lex to that list

_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 21
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:13:41 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Plane losses:




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 22
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:17:56 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Tracker chart:




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 23
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:22:10 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		The screenshots show China is already a lost cause for the Allies again. 

My advice on how to run China for the Allies is contained in other AARs.  In particular Cribtop's AAR where last November I went into great depth how to do it.  But as usual what I said has been misinterpreted (not by Cribtop who understands the complex strategic layers) and Joc as usual just dismissed me as not knowing what I say because it would not work against a human.  Which is entirely incorrect but then his failures demonstrate how much he really understands.

Olorin has started off the war magnificently and there are excellent prospects that the Allies will surrender well before 1 January 1943.

So far this AAR has only displayed screenshots with no real discussion as to future plans.  I didn't read Olorin's AAR because I sporadically dropped in to his opponents AAR.  Not certain which AAR I should follow but it will either the Allied or Japanese, not both.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 24
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:25:14 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Forgot to mention our house rules:

no new allied TFs in 1st turn
no strategic bombing for Allies in allied held territory in Dec '41 and China for the duration of the war.
no Jap strat bombing in China
no allied 4E bombers on naval strike below 10.000 feet
PPs for moving restricted units beyond national borders (US troops ok for Canada).
Fighter altitude restrictions:
Dec 1941- May 1942: 20,000
June 1942-Dec 1942: 25,000
1943: 30,000
1944-: 35.000


---These are cleverly worded. Hong Kong is not considered part of China.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 25
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:27:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

So far this AAR has only displayed screenshots with no real discussion as to future plans.  I didn't read Olorin's AAR because I sporadically dropped in to his opponents AAR.  Not certain which AAR I should follow but it will either the Allied or Japanese, not both.

Alfred


Patience, just laying the ground work.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 26
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 5:33:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have become fond of this page in general. Here are the major plane builds currently.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/18/2015 6:33:35 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 27
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 6:24:51 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I am a Kweiyang kind of guy especially with tanks...we will make a major push up, cutting railroads, laying the groundwork to the open plains of central China.

Meanwhile a push from Lashio will commence.

A push up to Ankang, and another supporting push up to Sian. Demonstrations in force.

No experience with stacking limits, but I guess I will learn fast. I will get some paratroopers over here and see if there are any deep bases to be had easy. I did recon Wuchow and Kukong today, deeper stuff tomorrow.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 28
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 6:34:15 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Alaska...gold, oil, and snow. What is not to like. Lots of Blizzards here...but we won't let that stop our forward momentum. Some of those Canadian bases are below the blizzard line.

A small destroyer squadron is out and about testing naval search...didn't take him long to spot me.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 29
RE: A Wolf in the Sheep Fold: Scen 30 pickup (Lowpe (J)... - 8/18/2015 6:40:18 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The screenshots show China is already a lost cause for the Allies again. 

My advice on how to run China for the Allies is contained in other AARs.  In particular Cribtop's AAR where last November I went into great depth how to do it.  But as usual what I said has been misinterpreted (not by Cribtop who understands the complex strategic layers) and Joc as usual just dismissed me as not knowing what I say because it would not work against a human.  Which is entirely incorrect but then his failures demonstrate how much he really understands.

Olorin has started off the war magnificently and there are excellent prospects that the Allies will surrender well before 1 January 1943.

So far this AAR has only displayed screenshots with no real discussion as to future plans.  I didn't read Olorin's AAR because I sporadically dropped in to his opponents AAR.  Not certain which AAR I should follow but it will either the Allied or Japanese, not both.

Alfred


So, how many AAR's have you made that lasted through to '45?

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 30
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