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RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A)

 
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RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 8/31/2015 12:49:30 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3833181

I posted that thread earlier in the year. Still waiting for a response.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 511
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 8/31/2015 6:00:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

Personally I avoid going as low as 2k for whatever mission. It seriously messes with the engine and detection times. No matter what CAP you have and at what altitude they are flying I´ve very, very rarely (if ever) seen the CAP able to react.


Still a valid tactic as part of a mass strike at all altitudes I'd have thought.


I agree, it's as valid a tactic as any I've used, and I've used some real scrub tactics.

At least I get radar equipped night fighters for the IJN, and the first IJA night fighters as well. Hopefully they can make a difference.

The crux of the issue for me is that the benefits of flying at 2k (increased accuracy, to the point that moonlight becomes irrelevant) far, far outweigh the costs (flak, mainly, but balloons as well).


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

Personally I avoid going as low as 2k for whatever mission. It seriously messes with the engine and detection times. No matter what CAP you have and at what altitude they are flying I´ve very, very rarely (if ever) seen the CAP able to react.


Still a valid tactic as part of a mass strike at all altitudes I'd have thought.


Depends on how you look at it IMO. I have never tested this myself but going by what I read in that AAR going in at 1-2k means CAP will never be able to respond. If that is true and the engine can´t handle it I would deem it an exploit weather or not you use it in a mass strike with other altitudes.

Perhaps not a major issue on land but if you can get say 50 TBs right through CAP it can be a war changing event.

As I said I havn´t tested it myself so I´m only going by what I read. Its a bloody shame I can´t remember whos AAR it was. Hopefully whoever it was reads this and can give more info!


I wouldn't go as far as calling it an exploit. Perhaps one of the oddities in the code would be a better explanation. As I've said, the balance of benefit versus cost just seems a little off in regards to low level night bombing.

I think it's also important to keep in mind that there's a lot of info about Loka's 4E groups that I don't see. Morale, fatigue ect. It could be that his pilots require copious quantities of medicinal alcohol after a night raid to deal with the fear of flying into Japanese night fighters, flak and balloons!

Mass strikes as a perfectly valid tactic as far as I'm concerned. In fact, they'll be my resort to breaching the late-war Allied super-carrier-CAP!



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2206908&mpage=1&key=�

I exchanged a few emails with Loka on the subject of night bombing during your discussions. It's a game area where it's ridiculous to lean on history for Japan's case given how various mechanisms work in the game.

Your posts here also leave out an important piece of the negotiations, so far as I understand them. He offered a compromise to the 6000ft. proposal; you weren't interested in THAT either. It wasn't as one sided as you propose here.



Regarding barrage balloons: I've tested it. At night, they are nerfed to the point of being completely irrelevant.

Losses to barrage balloons during the day are reported as flak losses. At 5k, in daylight, 4E's run into them left, right and center.

At night, at 5k, is nothing in comparison. I think I had one plane reported lost due to flak - there was no flak at the base, so it was a balloon. That was out of a hundred plane raid, IIRC.

Obviously, one trial does not an experiment make, as at the time I wanted to verify that the code for balloons at night actually worked, rather than assess it's effectiveness. Even so, there was a stark difference in planes destroyed/damaged due to balloons between the day/night strikes.

I might go back and run that experiment ten times or so to see what sort of losses balloons cause at night.

RE: House Rules

There was no compromise, as I read it. The 6k limit was my proposal. Loka pointed out quite rightly that I had oversized groups and active kamikazes and there was no further mention of house rules. I can forward you the email chain or post it here if you wish.

quote:

Night bombing from the Allied perspective is a tool. It certainly is not cost-free or some kind of wonder weapon. Japan players see only a fraction of the downsides, however. If you want to maximize your defenses against it do not rely on NFs. Any fighter--Nates even--that engages ruins aim. If you focus on how many bombers you destroyed you miss the point of the defense.


Therein lies the crux. It's getting fighters to engage that's the real issue for night CAP. Even then, they'll get worn down due to the fragmented nature of night strikes. The first few raids might get disrupted, but the vast majority will get a good run at things.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Any fighter--Nates even--that engages ruins aim. If you focus on how many bombers you destroyed you miss the point of the defense.


+1

Petes, Alfs, Daves...work well too. Fighters with horrendous climb rates, set at 10% CAP worked well for me.

You also need AA; so it is a holistic approach. NF need lots of radar just like daytime CAP.

I saw a big improvement going from Irving S to Sa; they don't run out of ammo so fast.

What percent do your run your Irvings at?



I have everything you list marked off. AA, NF, radar. It's all there, it just doesn't seem to work together holistically.

I can't check the settings on my Irvings just now, give me a couple of hours and I'll get back to you.


Michael makes no mention of a night/day piece to the code. I have no idea if there's a difference.

In my games losses to balloons are reported that way, not as flak. I look at balloons as chrome on a level with USN blimps. I've never not done something out of fear of balloons.

Part of the ahistoric nature of night bombing in the game is how often and well Japanese fighters find and intercept raids. No radar, no ground fighter direction, no radios even sometimes, yet we see entire CAPs stage attacks on the raids. This par tis rarely mentioned in challenges to the tactic. I can give you dozens of CRs where CAP did find me, did attack, and did disrupt aim. Also many where flak hurt or killed me at low altitudes. All against Lokasenna.

You have supersized LBA torpedo bombers. I had thought that was a counter-proposal, to break them up. You can see in the CR you posted that the Allies, who must invade and take bases to win the game, cannot survive in any sort of historical manner against multiple 80+ torpedo raids on their carriers. When you super-size you inherently avoid any coordination penalty. The Allies cannot counter this. They also have limited pools. Look at the one combat you posted and then look up how many CVEs the USN lost in the whole war. A bit ahistoric.

The game was not deeply play-tested in 1944-45. It has certain warts we all live with, the power of Japanese torpedo bombers being a primary one.

Edit: I looked back and the CR is from the KB. The emails, as I understood them, (didn't see them) concerned LBA torpedo units in the vicinity of northern NG and Rabaul.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 8/31/2015 7:05:34 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 512
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 8/31/2015 7:46:58 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

Personally I avoid going as low as 2k for whatever mission. It seriously messes with the engine and detection times. No matter what CAP you have and at what altitude they are flying I´ve very, very rarely (if ever) seen the CAP able to react.


Still a valid tactic as part of a mass strike at all altitudes I'd have thought.


I agree, it's as valid a tactic as any I've used, and I've used some real scrub tactics.

At least I get radar equipped night fighters for the IJN, and the first IJA night fighters as well. Hopefully they can make a difference.

The crux of the issue for me is that the benefits of flying at 2k (increased accuracy, to the point that moonlight becomes irrelevant) far, far outweigh the costs (flak, mainly, but balloons as well).


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

Personally I avoid going as low as 2k for whatever mission. It seriously messes with the engine and detection times. No matter what CAP you have and at what altitude they are flying I´ve very, very rarely (if ever) seen the CAP able to react.


Still a valid tactic as part of a mass strike at all altitudes I'd have thought.


Depends on how you look at it IMO. I have never tested this myself but going by what I read in that AAR going in at 1-2k means CAP will never be able to respond. If that is true and the engine can´t handle it I would deem it an exploit weather or not you use it in a mass strike with other altitudes.

Perhaps not a major issue on land but if you can get say 50 TBs right through CAP it can be a war changing event.

As I said I havn´t tested it myself so I´m only going by what I read. Its a bloody shame I can´t remember whos AAR it was. Hopefully whoever it was reads this and can give more info!


I wouldn't go as far as calling it an exploit. Perhaps one of the oddities in the code would be a better explanation. As I've said, the balance of benefit versus cost just seems a little off in regards to low level night bombing.

I think it's also important to keep in mind that there's a lot of info about Loka's 4E groups that I don't see. Morale, fatigue ect. It could be that his pilots require copious quantities of medicinal alcohol after a night raid to deal with the fear of flying into Japanese night fighters, flak and balloons!

Mass strikes as a perfectly valid tactic as far as I'm concerned. In fact, they'll be my resort to breaching the late-war Allied super-carrier-CAP!



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2206908&mpage=1&key=�

I exchanged a few emails with Loka on the subject of night bombing during your discussions. It's a game area where it's ridiculous to lean on history for Japan's case given how various mechanisms work in the game.

Your posts here also leave out an important piece of the negotiations, so far as I understand them. He offered a compromise to the 6000ft. proposal; you weren't interested in THAT either. It wasn't as one sided as you propose here.



Regarding barrage balloons: I've tested it. At night, they are nerfed to the point of being completely irrelevant.

Losses to barrage balloons during the day are reported as flak losses. At 5k, in daylight, 4E's run into them left, right and center.

At night, at 5k, is nothing in comparison. I think I had one plane reported lost due to flak - there was no flak at the base, so it was a balloon. That was out of a hundred plane raid, IIRC.

Obviously, one trial does not an experiment make, as at the time I wanted to verify that the code for balloons at night actually worked, rather than assess it's effectiveness. Even so, there was a stark difference in planes destroyed/damaged due to balloons between the day/night strikes.

I might go back and run that experiment ten times or so to see what sort of losses balloons cause at night.

RE: House Rules

There was no compromise, as I read it. The 6k limit was my proposal. Loka pointed out quite rightly that I had oversized groups and active kamikazes and there was no further mention of house rules. I can forward you the email chain or post it here if you wish.

quote:

Night bombing from the Allied perspective is a tool. It certainly is not cost-free or some kind of wonder weapon. Japan players see only a fraction of the downsides, however. If you want to maximize your defenses against it do not rely on NFs. Any fighter--Nates even--that engages ruins aim. If you focus on how many bombers you destroyed you miss the point of the defense.


Therein lies the crux. It's getting fighters to engage that's the real issue for night CAP. Even then, they'll get worn down due to the fragmented nature of night strikes. The first few raids might get disrupted, but the vast majority will get a good run at things.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Any fighter--Nates even--that engages ruins aim. If you focus on how many bombers you destroyed you miss the point of the defense.


+1

Petes, Alfs, Daves...work well too. Fighters with horrendous climb rates, set at 10% CAP worked well for me.

You also need AA; so it is a holistic approach. NF need lots of radar just like daytime CAP.

I saw a big improvement going from Irving S to Sa; they don't run out of ammo so fast.

What percent do your run your Irvings at?



I have everything you list marked off. AA, NF, radar. It's all there, it just doesn't seem to work together holistically.

I can't check the settings on my Irvings just now, give me a couple of hours and I'll get back to you.


Michael makes no mention of a night/day piece to the code. I have no idea if there's a difference.

In my games losses to balloons are reported that way, not as flak. I look at balloons as chrome on a level with USN blimps. I've never not done something out of fear of balloons.


IIRC balloon losses appear on the air losses screen as losses due to flak.

I'm currently setting up a little experiment to compare day losses to balloons versus night losses.

I'll report back shortly.

quote:

Part of the ahistoric nature of night bombing in the game is how often and well Japanese fighters find and intercept raids. No radar, no ground fighter direction, no radios even sometimes, yet we see entire CAPs stage attacks on the raids. This par tis rarely mentioned in challenges to the tactic. I can give you dozens of CRs where CAP did find me, did attack, and did disrupt aim. Also many where flak hurt or killed me at low altitudes. All against Lokasenna.


My combat reports are posted above. While some results are on the extreme side due to good co-ordination roles on Loka's part, I can say it's pretty representative of my experience with night bombing.

Then again, I don't see his side of it, so no idea on morale or fatigue.

quote:

You have supersized LBA torpedo bombers. I had thought that was a counter-proposal, to break them up. You can see in the CR you posted that the Allies, who must invade and take bases to win the game, cannot survive in any sort of historical manner against multiple 80+ torpedo raids on their carriers. When you super-size you inherently avoid any coordination penalty. The Allies cannot counter this. They also have limited pools. Look at the one combat you posted and then look up how many CVEs the USN lost in the whole war. A bit ahistoric.


Super-sizing my squadrons is my only counter to late-war Allied CAP. Lokasenna got a good demonstration in our last few turns of what happens when normal sized squadrons try to break through Allied carrier CAP. The Japanese strikes fragment, I suffer 300 odd planes lost for me, no results to show for it. At least with the supersized squadrons I'd have lost those 300 planes and perhaps torpedoed a carrier or two.

I can also tell you that supersizing does not inherently avoid the co-ordination penalty. My large squadrons have ended up without escort just like my smaller squadrons, except this time instead of a 27 sized squadron being gutted, its a 81 sized squadron.

That's not to say the supersized squadrons aren't effective: they can be. They're just not wonder weapons. And they are so incredibly cumbersome when it comes to deployment.

quote:

The game was not deeply play-tested in 1944-45. It has certain warts we all live with, the power of Japanese torpedo bombers being a primary one.


My main gripe would be large-scale air combats more than Japanese torpedo bombers. When you've a five hundred plane CAP, you need a thousand plane strike to get through it. At that point the game goes haywire.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 513
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 8/31/2015 9:04:57 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		RE: Balloons at night

I've watched through about fifty or so night bombing raids by 4E's at an empty 4 port, 5 airbase hex with level 6 forts. In daylight, plenty of messages in the replay about 4Es hitting balloons. Occasionally one will be destroyed

At night, no messages, but the bombers seem to take damage. Just damage, I've not seen any 4E's destroyed outright.

Perhaps it's a display issue?

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 514
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 11:39:39 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		The Allies have landed on Timor at Lautem!

Japanese air power in the region responds, sinking one USN fleet carrier and severely damaging another (and likely sinking it). Kamikaze aircraft see their second operational use, but end up focused on a TF of LST's unloading supply onto the beach.

I'm not sure what happened to Loka's CAP. Two fleet carriers and two CVL's was a woefully weak force to cover such an invasion into the keystone of my air defense network in the area. No prior airbase bombing, no preparatory bombardments, though my destroyers tangled with a crusier force that may have been on a bombardment mission and forced it to retire (although this would have closed at most one of the 4 large airbases in strike range). I suspect Loka is trying to work the DEI advance to match with his New Guinea advance. Hopefully this will slow him down some

On the ground, one Japanese division, entrenched behind level 5 forts, faces off against a brigade of New Zealanders and an Australian motorized brigade, both of which are reinforced with extra armor, artillery and AA units. A nearby Japanese division (with '43 squads) is moving 2/3rds of its strength to Lautem, and an airlift effort is being organized to move in extra troops and artillery to push the Allies back into the sea.

The KB and the bulk of the IJN is redeploying to the Lower DEI to assist in the effort to smash the Allied beachhead, in the hope that the danger of losing such a number of troops will force the Allies to commit to a carrier engagement where I can bring land based aircraft to bear. The surface units of the IJN will also set up regular bombardment runs on the Allied beachhead, and as the SLOC between Lautem and Surabaya is essentially secure, it should be much more practical to bombard than Saumlaki.

This new state of affairs will require me to essentially abandon the air war over New Guinea in order to provide enough aircraft to enable operations in the Lower DEI, but a significant number of air groups are currently resting and refitting on Guam, so it should be possible for the Japanese to resist effectively in the air over New Guinea by the end of the month.

As an aside, I really think Loka has moved too far forward without enough troops. If this had been two Marine divisions, then I'd be worried about losing Timor. Instead, he has one division's worth of Commonwealth troops that may or may not take the base. His nearest base that he can operate from is Darwin (he has Babo, but it hasn't been built up), or Taberfane and Dobo (which he can't use as I can easily bombard from Boela). At least, that's how I read it.

We will see. It will all come down to if I can hold Lautem or not. If my troops hold, we'll have another Saumlaki, but this time instead of a stalemate we'll have a good chance to wipe the Allies out. I suspect that Loka will pull his shipping back now that he has lost one fleet carrier and will likely lose another, and once the Allied naval units have withdrawn, any aircraft that can fly will hit the Allied troops on the beach.

Banzai!

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 515
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 12:10:20 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Industry question:

What is the point in the game when the Japanese should start running an HI deficit in order to use their stockpiled points up before the end of the game?

I ask, as based on what I've read elsewhere (looking at you, Lowpe), I'm debating the value of starting to expand my factories to produce large numbers of my late-war airframes, mainly fighters. My thinking is that expanding now while I still have supply and safe factories might be the best option - the aircraft pool can't be bombed out.

Plane - Planned production numbers - current production numbers

A6M chain - 200 - 190 (all to be converted once A7M comes online)
N1K chain - 200- 165
J2M chain - 200 - 150
Ki-100 - 200 - 150
Ki-43 - 200 - 72
Ki-84 - 200 - 120


For those with more experiance, is 600 IJN and 600 IJA fighters a month too excessive for the late-war, or right on track?

I'm unsure at present, seeing as the first few months of '44 have been bad for Japan in terms of air losses, so I can't tell if my pools are low because of a bad run of events or because I'm not building enough...

Any advice welcome!

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 516
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 12:35:06 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Expand! Run some math looking at HI and supply...Koniu had something like 450 Frank R production alone.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 517
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 2:12:10 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Industry Data as of 3/3/44

HI: 194,000 (surplus of 1463 per turn)
Supply Total: 5,524,000
Supply Total Home Islands: 3,354,000
Fuel Total Home Islands: 1,793,000
Oil Total Home Islands: 1,157,000
Resource Total Home Islands: 13,666,000

Fuel is down a bit, but that is due to the E-class escort ships undergoing upgrades. Once they're back in action the spice...er...oil and fuel...will start to flow again.

Armaments: 334,000
Vehicles: 41,000

Naval and Merchant shipyards are at 0, my production is perfectly balanced to demand at present, but I have a few carriers away in a few weeks that should free bucketloads of points up.

Questions to those that are good at the Japanese industry game:

- HI. Do I have enough?
- Armaments and Vehicles: Do I have too much?
- Supply. Do I have enough?
- My thinking is hopefully to expand production to match HI output, so that I only produce a small surplus. Is 2m HI points enough of a fallback to last through till '45?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 518
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 2:26:09 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		What does plane & engine pools and production look like.




(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 519
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 2:34:03 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 9/3/2015 3:43:47 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 520
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 3:23:27 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Every game is different, and what Lok will do is a mystery...

The loss of two fleet carriers and perhaps a failed invasion will hurt him...but will it slow him down?

Having said that, I think you are perilously low on quality fighters. How long to the Frank r?

I would double Frank A production, depending upon how much you have into Frank r research. Frank a makes perhaps the best fighter kamikaze in the game so you will use them.

Engine production, especially 45 is low. Grace, George (first two) Peggy and Frank. And from what I can read you make 270 a month? I think you should have tried to keep a 500 engine pool on the 45 for Grace and Frank.

You simply don't have the pools or the planes to fight a sustained air war.

But I think you have lots of time (except for long range B29 punishment at night)...barring some kind of sleight of hand deception from Lok. Irvings and Nicks aren' great; but they beat the alternative. Your Dinahs will die at an amazingly quick rate...sadly.

Judy and Jill both make for good kamikazes and your pools aren't deep there either. You want to be able to throw 2000 planes at the Allies, lose them all, and be able to do it again 3 more times in less than 2 months. Your pools and production levels are good for 1 attack, and part of a 2nd.

Don't lose the KB!

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 521
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/3/2015 4:40:23 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Every game is different, and what Lok will do is a mystery...

The loss of two fleet carriers and perhaps a failed invasion will hurt him...but will it slow him down?


In the long term, no. In the short-medium term, likely. He really can't advance in the DEI without taking or neutralizing Timor, and one failed invasion means he needs to do it again.

The Marines (or at least the 2nd and 3rd Divisions) are in the SWPAC, along with the bulk of his carrier forces. There's not much I can do (and less that I am willing to do) in order to stall his advance there, so I figure the best way to slow him down is to make him react to a big campaign to push him off Timor.

In an ideal world, I'd love for him to shift his carrier strength from SWPAC to the DEI.

quote:

Having said that, I think you are perilously low on quality fighters. How long to the Frank r?

I would double Frank A production, depending upon how much you have into Frank r research. Frank a makes perhaps the best fighter kamikaze in the game so you will use them.

Engine production, especially 45 is low. Grace, George (first two) Peggy and Frank. And from what I can read you make 270 a month? I think you should have tried to keep a 500 engine pool on the 45 for Grace and Frank.

You simply don't have the pools or the planes to fight a sustained air war.

But I think you have lots of time (except for long range B29 punishment at night)...barring some kind of sleight of hand deception from Lok. Irvings and Nicks aren' great; but they beat the alternative. Your Dinahs will die at an amazingly quick rate...sadly.

Judy and Jill both make for good kamikazes and your pools aren't deep there either. You want to be able to throw 2000 planes at the Allies, lose them all, and be able to do it again 3 more times in less than 2 months. Your pools and production levels are good for 1 attack, and part of a 2nd.


This is the furthest I've ever got in a PBEM, so I've no real metric to measure what is normal and what is not. I would hate to go so far only to lose because I crashed the economy; hence my somewhat conservative nature.

Now that I've some assurances that it's just me under producing, I feel that I can expand freely. I don't know why I haven't actually did so - all of the main fighter aircraft are models that I'll be taking through to the end of the war. At least part of it stems from the fact that the industry part of playing Japan is probably the part of playing Japan I enjoy least - despite it arguably being the most important part!

quote:

Don't lose the KB!


I don't plan on it! At least, not until I've filled from Minadano to Okinawa with troops!

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 522
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/4/2015 1:54:40 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		March 4th, 1944

Usual night bombing crap that sees 20 odd Japanese aircraft torched on the ground for a couple of 4E's.

In the key hex of Lautem, we hold handily. A nearby Japanese cruiser force runs a night-time bombardment on the beach-head, but no casualties are reported. During the day, the IJA bombers set to fly against the beach-head dont fly either.

That doesn't bother the troops on the ground. With level 5 forts and x2 terrain, it's almost easy to beat off the Allied attack:

quote:

Ground combat at Lautem (72,115)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9673 troops, 209 guns, 581 vehicles, Assault Value = 481

Defending force 19488 troops, 242 guns, 214 vehicles, Assault Value = 537

Allied adjusted assault: 202

Japanese adjusted defense: 1031

Allied assault odds: 1 to 5 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
409 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 19 (2 destroyed, 17 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
238 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 48 (5 destroyed, 43 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2/5th Armoured Regiment
762nd Tank Battalion
3rd Motor Brigade
194th Tank Battalion
15th NZ Brigade
2nd Medium Regiment
249th Field Artillery Battalion
2/16th Field Regiment
76th Coast AA Regiment
Sixth US Army
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
56th Division
22nd JAAF Base Force
21th JNAF AF Unit
21st JAAF Base Force
71st Field AA Battalion
59th JNAF AF Unit
44th Field AA Battalion
14th RF Gun (Pack) Bn /1 Some nice 47mm AT guns airlifted in this turn!


USN naval forces are withdrawing south to Darwin, and the KB and most of the IJN is moving to Surabaya. The air bridge to Timor has already moved the best part of a regiment and an AT gun unit. Another regiment is being prepared for air transport at Surabaya, and I'm looking to see if I can't fast transport some heavy guns into Dili. Most Japanese Ind. Mixed Brigades/Regiments may not have much in terms of a TOE, but that makes them exceptionally flexible when it comes to air transport. With about 40 Tabbys and some IJA transport planes, I've been able to move about half a regiment in one day, or about 70 AV. Combined with fast transport runs to bring in heavier equipment, and I think my chances of holding on to Timor are pretty good.

The Fuso, damaged by American carrier aircraft last week, takes two torpedoes outside of Surabaya. She makes a small level 1 port two hexes from Surabaya, where she'll try to get system and flooding down before moving to Singapore.

Elsewhere, fairly quiet, other than the usual bombings in New Guinea. We've been a bit more active in the air over Burma owing to the improved supply situation. At Lae, the Allies attack again and knock forts down to 3. More Japanese troops are on the way, but I'm thinking on leaving a rear-guard and having everything else run northwards for Hansa Bay. Without naval control supplies just aren't flowing here.

As per advice, I've massively expanded my industry and I feel better already. I can provide details later if anyone wishes. If I'm over-producing, I'm making aircraft that will serve as kami's later on, and my expansion of fighter production should be able to soak up my reverses in SWPAC. It will take about 3-5 days before I'll be ready to mount serious oposition in the skies over SWPAC again, as Guam is still full of squadrons resting and refitting. The good news is that the first of the newly formed squadrons from the Home Islands have started to arrive, and combined with recuperated groups I hope to be able to establish a serious presence here.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 523
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/4/2015 2:01:13 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		You are weak in AT weapons there, are your IJA squads 43?

I would focus on trying to move some 15cm artillery pieces there if you can.

I am curious about your plane expansions...

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 524
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/4/2015 2:20:11 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You are weak in AT weapons there, are your IJA squads 43?

I would focus on trying to move some 15cm artillery pieces there if you can.

I am curious about your plane expansions...


The division next door in Dili has '43 squads. It is about two/three days out. The airlifted regiment is the replacement garrison for Dili in case the Allies plan a second landing. Anything after that will be for Lautem.

I've one unit with 15cm guns chilling on Java, along with one of those mortar units with 36 81mm mortars. Another 24 15cm guns are on Sumatra. I'll fast transport in the guns and fly the mortars in. I recently had a bunch of artillery units arrive in China with the 75mm Type 90 guns. They're hardly heavy artillery, but I'll be able to mass 60 or so of them - to supplement the divisional artillery of both divisions.

As a side note, the 75mm Type 90 was historically they were the main Japanese anti-tank gun. I had planned to send them to Luzon in order to help build the artillery park there up, but I think they'll be more useful on Timor.

I'll post my new air production numbers tomorrow. Most of it was expansion to fighter production, with some serious expansion of IJN torpedo and dive bombers, as well as a little boost to IJA bombers. Engine production also got a big boost, seeing as I had been running a moderate deficit into the pools I had built up.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 525
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/4/2015 12:51:20 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I am curious about your plane expansions...




As you can se, big expansions to the Jill and Judy, as well as the Frank. A little boost for the George (might expand this even more later on) as well as the Tony.

Oscars might get bumped up a bit more depending on the siatuion.

Slight increases for 2Es.

I'd like advice on the Helen IIb - I didn't realize that the Peggy Ia had arrived. The Peggy Ia is a slightly better aircraft than the Helen IIb, but it won't be long until the Peggy (T) comes online.

The difference between the Peggy (T) and the Ia and Ib Peggy models is minimal - the Ia and Ib drop 3x250kg bombs versus the 2x250kg and 2x60kg bombs of the Peggy (T).

- Should I keep the Helen IIb in production for dedicated ground attack missions? The shorter range versus the Peggy shouldn't matter much in Burma or the DEI. It also makes a nice kami, with it's 4x250kg bombs.

- Or am I better shifting everything to the Peggy(T)? Slightly less payload and a higher SR, but a lot more range and speed. I'm leaning more towards this, as I expect bucket loads of Peggy(T)s to die in the defense of the Empire, and any extra models would make great kamis (the Peggy is the 2nd fastest IJA 2E bomber).

Advice welcome!

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 526
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/5/2015 1:41:53 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		March 5th to March 7th

North Pacific

Calm and quiet up here, as is usual. As the Allies get B-29's shortly, I'm starting to recon the Western Aleutian islands. The base sizes are small here, and there is only two bases where B-29s will be effective from: Amchitka and Shemya islands. When I get the turn back I plan to figure out just what the Allies can hit from these bases and station fighters accordingly.

With the Tojo losing it's edge against new Allied fighters, I hope to phase it out from the frontlines to the defense of the Home Islands: it looks like it should perform well - faster than B-29s, with an excellent climb rate. I have high hopes.

With the IJAAF group expansions complete, I have plenty of large 49 plane groups sitting around in the Home Islands. Most are dedicated to training, but I plan to divide about four or so up into A/B/C components and use them to provide day and night coverage of Northern Japan.

Central Pacific

I think we're at the calm before the storm here. I have all but abandoned the Marshalls, bar the garrison troops and a few floatplanes to keep track on the Allies. A CVE force was spotted heading eastwards from Rabual, and combined with recent bombings and activity in the Gilberts, I suspect that Loka may move on Mili or Kusaie Island soon.

I hope he does, both bases are nice little fortresses, even without air support, and with some luck I can hope for some bad rolls in the shock phase to trash some Allied units.

South-West Pacific

We are at last operation in the skies above Hollandia. Hopefully we can start exerting pressure on the new Allied lodgement at Manus Island, but with recent events in the DEI this is unlikely.

Lae still holds out, but the Allies are landing more supplies here, and with Japanese supplies almost out, the defense won't last for much longer. At this stage, I'm hoping to cobble together a rear-guard force from the 64th Division, which was defeated at Buna, and the 27th IMB, which was serving as the garrison of Finschhafen. Once these two units are in the hex, the 15th Division, which is still fairly intact, will make a run for the north. I'd rather have two already battered units be beaten again than have one good division trashed by a retreat.

DEI

I now have two divisions arranged against the Allied beachhead at Lautem, one with '43 IJA infantry squads and 88 EXP! IJN crusier forces bombarded on the 5th and 6th of March, for minimal results, but I assume it caused some disruption. Interestingly, the Allies have 90mm DP guns in one of their AA units, so they were able to get some return fire off at the bombarding destroyers - no hits.

In terms of air-strikes on the Allied troops, the 90mm guns do as much good shooting ships as they do aircraft. Helens flying from 15k feet have been able to bomb the troops without much issue. Of course, they don't do much damage at that altitude, but it bleeds Allied supplies.

The three combat ready Kongo's are bombarding this turn, along with another cruiser force, in an effort to soften the Allied troops up for a deliberate attack by the IJA later in the day. Combined with the bombing raids I'm hoping for good results.

Even if things go bad, I'm bringing in the kitchen sink. Artillery for Babeldoab, Manila, China, Sumatra and Java is being moved to off-load at Dili, and a brigade is waiting at Surabaya to be staged forward, with two more waiting to be moved off Manado. 40k of supply is being moved forward from Manila as well. Within a week, AV in Latuem should be over 1.2k AV.

The KB has underwent a re-organization in Babeldoab, and I think I'll move to base them at Manado, so as to provide the best reponse times for operations in the DEI as well as the SWPAC.

Japanese air power in the DEI is also having some R&R at Makassar and Surabaya, where I've a mix of fighers, kamikaze squadrons and conventional strike planes all taking replacements and doing some training. We've currently hurting for IJA and IJN level bombers, but with the Peggy (T) and industry expansions building up, hopefully we can start building a stockpile.

Burma

The frontline is still fairly static here. Allied aircraft catch me out with a LRCAP trap of a Chinese unit in the open, but most of the losses are outdated Sally bombers.

I'm still building up troops here for my counter-attack east of Tavoy - units are moving in from Thailand and Southern Burma to help boost AV. In Malaya and Sumatra, I'm starting to backfill in bases with newly arrived units, though I'll need more. The Thai troops withdraw in August, so I'll need troops to take over their garrisons in Malaya, Thailand and Burma.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 527
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/5/2015 2:55:17 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Capital Ship Losses since 1/1/1944

Everything here is as per tracker, as it seems to be more accurate than in-game.

Japan

January

CA Mogami - 2/1/1944 - Sunk off Rabual by Allied air power
CV Shokaku - 10/1/1944 - Damaged off New Guinea sub attack, sunk by sub off China transiting for repairs.

Febuary

BB Yamato - 13/2/1944 - Damaged by sub, sunk off Japan transiting for repairs.

March

CA Mikuma - 6/3/1944 - Sunk off Babeldoab by Allied subs

TOTAL:
1 CV
1 BB
2 CA

This doesn't really reflect the actual situation for the IJN, as there's a great many ships damaged.

Japanese ships repairing serious damage (ie 30 days +)
4 BB (Musashi, Mutsu, Kongo, Fuso)
1 CA (Suzuya)
3 CL (Tama, Agano, Oi)
1 CLAA (Natori)


Allied

January

CVE Altamaha- 2/1/1944 - Sunk by Japanese air power in the DEI
CA Boston - 3/1/1944 - Sunk by the KB off Taberfane
CA Dorsetshire - 3/1/1944 - Sunk by the KB off Taberfane
CA Wichita - 3/1/1944 - Sunk by the KB off Taberfane
CA Hawkins - 4/1/1944 - Scuttled following damage off Taberfane
CA Sussex - 21/1/1944 - Sunk by Japanese air power of Akyab
CVE Breton - 22/1/1944 - Scuttled following damage of Saumlaki
CVE Manila Bay - 23/1/1944 - Sunk by Japanese air power in the DEI
CA Exeter - 24/1/1944 - Sunk by the KB off Saumlaki
CA Indianapolis - 24/1/1944 - Sunk by the KB off Saumlaki
CA Louisville - 24/1/1944 - Sunk by the KB off Saumlaki
CVE Barnes - 24/1/1944 - Sunk by Japanese air power in the DEI
CVE Liscome Bay - 24/1/1944 - Sunk by Japanese air power in the DEI
BB Alabama - 26/1/1944 - Sunk by Long Lance in a destroyer raid on Darwin

February

BB Nevada - 14/2/1944 - Damaged by sub off Shortlands, reported sunk.
CVE Corregidor - 19/2/1944 - Sunk by KB off Kavieng
CVE Fanshaw Bay - 19/2/1944 - Sunk by KB off Kavieng
CVE Kasaan Bay - 20/2/1944 - Damaged by KB off Kavieng, sunk off Rabual
CA Frobisher - 22/2/1944 - Reported sunk off Madras - likely false.
BB Massachusetts - 28/2/1944 - Sunk off Darwin by Japanese air power.

March

CV Saratoga - 3/3/1944 - Sunk off Timor by Japanese air power.
CV Wasp - 4/3/1944 - Sunk off Darwin to damage from Japanese air power.

TOTAL:
2 CV
8 CVE
2 BB
9 CA

Even assuming FOW for some of the CVE's and cruisers, this is impressive for three months of work.

Even so, this isn't even a drop into the Allied force pool. I think the Allies have another 70 or so CVE's alone, either on map or as reinforcements...

So, I'm about 10% there...

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 528
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/6/2015 12:31:53 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		March 8th and March 9th, 1944

Not much action outside of SWPAC, the DEI and Burma

SWPAC

Japanese aircraft re-occupy Aitpae and Hollandia in large numbers. No doubt they'll get bombarded out again in a few turns, but such is the way of things. At least this time I've learned and I'm keeping a sizable reserve on Guam.

Biak is building up nicely, and I'm flying out aviation support from the frontline to bolster this base.

On the ground, Lae holds through two more attacks, but the forts are dropped to level 2. Not long left to hold on here now. At least the reinforcements will arrive next turn, so the next Allied attack may fail

DEI

The Japanese deliberate attack at Lautem goes in on the 8th, and we get a 1:1 right away!

quote:

Ground combat at Lautem (72,115)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26674 troops, 257 guns, 155 vehicles, Assault Value = 989

Defending force 13610 troops, 270 guns, 864 vehicles, Assault Value = 453

Japanese adjusted assault: 928

Allied adjusted defense: 769

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1007 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 87 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
293 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 54 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
5th Division
56th Division
71st Field AA Battalion
21th JNAF AF Unit
44th Field AA Battalion
22nd JAAF Base Force
21st JAAF Base Force
14th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
59th JNAF AF Unit

Defending units:
3rd Motor Brigade
2/5th Armoured Regiment
194th Tank Battalion
762nd Tank Battalion
15th NZ Brigade
Sixth US Army
2/16th Field Regiment
2nd Medium Regiment
76th Coast AA Regiment
249th Field Artillery Battalion
85th British AT Gun Regiment


While the losses look bad, the disablements are spread equally over the two divisions, so our combat power isn't affected much. The lack of any modifier for disruption from the Allies is a disappointment, considering how the Allied units have been on the receiving end of munitions from 250kg bombs up to 36cm shells since they landed.

Things get even better on the 9th. The Allies, encouraged by their apparent success in repulsing this first attack, decide to counter-attack!

quote:

Ground combat at Lautem (72,115)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9235 troops, 209 guns, 581 vehicles, Assault Value = 415

Defending force 31963 troops, 364 guns, 281 vehicles, Assault Value = 905

Allied adjusted assault: 165

Japanese adjusted defense: 1535

Allied assault odds: 1 to 9 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
334 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Allied ground losses:
563 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 57 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 46 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 26 (10 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 106 (4 destroyed, 102 disabled)

Assaulting units:
194th Tank Battalion
3rd Motor Brigade
2/5th Armoured Regiment
762nd Tank Battalion
15th NZ Brigade
249th Field Artillery Battalion
Sixth US Army
2nd Medium Regiment
76th Coast AA Regiment
2/16th Field Regiment
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
5th Division
56th Division
71st Field AA Battalion
21st JAAF Base Force
21th JNAF AF Unit
22nd JAAF Base Force
44th Field AA Battalion
14th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
59th JNAF AF Unit


This is good news, as the Allies will struggle to recover disablements when they're subjected to ground, naval and air bombardment. The first artillery reinforcements for Timor are about three days out, and a brigade is being staged forward to Kendrai tomorrow in preparation for being airlifted to Timor.

The other major news: large Allied task forces sighted off Cocos Island!

Carriers are spotted among the ships, so it's a serious move. It looks aimed at taking Cocos Island, rather than a full-out invasion of Sumatra. The KB is already heading back to Surabaya for to be the axe hovering over the head of the troops on Timor, so it will swing by Cocos to see what it can do before pulling back.

I have a single naval guard unit, with no forts, sitting on the island. It's already dead. I was luckily able to get the Jakes and the AV at the base to safety with no problems.

Cocos is currently a 1(0) 0(2) base, so Loka will need to stick around to build an airbase. My hope is that the combined might of the KB can sweep the region clear of Allied troops and let the IJN bombard the base, rendering it unusable. After that, hopefully I can set a unit of IJN bombers flying from Java to keep the base from expanding.

In the long term, I want to remove the Allies from Cocos, and I've already started prepping a crack division from the Java garrison to this end. All my AK and AK-t ships, as well as the LSD's and the new LST's that I've got are converging on Surabaya.

Interesting times. I suspect this move is timed to force me to react away from the SWPAC - I still have strong feelings that there's a move on the Marshalls coming up shortly.

Burma

The Allies still haven't learned that bigger artillery guns get better results as they bombard along the Akyab road:

quote:

Ground combat at 55,48 (near Ramree Island)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 188597 troops, 1126 guns, 879 vehicles, Assault Value = 7000

Defending force 96518 troops, 1267 guns, 1213 vehicles, Assault Value = 3129

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
553 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 14 (10 destroyed, 4 disabled)


Elsewhere, IJA troops west of Paoshan have made contact with two Chinese corps, and will mount an attack to see if they can't catch these units out of position and rout them.

In Central Burma, I've sent the 3rd Tank Division to attack a lone Chinese corp north-west of Toungoo, with a gaggle of tank regiments en-route to back it up. Again, I'm hoping to rout the unit and pull back to my defensive line. Elastic defense and cheap VPs, hopefully.

Question to the Gallery

Just how big a deal is an Allied landing on Cocos?

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 529
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/6/2015 11:17:51 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		March 10th, 1944

I can feel the pressure closing in on the Japanese Empire at this stage!

Central Pacific

As I had predicted, the Allies make their move into the Marshalls! An Allied fleet appears off Maloelap. I had pulled all the air search assets here back a long time ago, so Jakes only spotted the fleet when it moved in close.

Oh, and the dozens of mini-subs I've lost this campaign at last make themselves good:

quote:

Sub attack near Maloelap at 136,117

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-10, hits 6, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CVE White Plains, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DE Loeser
DE Greenwood
DE Foreman
DE Samuel S. Miles
DE Spangler

Ammo storage explosion on CVE White Plains
SSX Ha-10 launches 2 torpedoes at CVE White Plains
DE Samuel S. Miles fails to find sub and abandons search
DE Spangler fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Spangler attacking submerged sub ....
Large oil slick appears over area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

The island is subjected to pretty heavy air bombardment by 4E's, but oddly no naval or carrier air attacks.

Oddly, the troops start unloading only in the afternoon phase. Coastal defense fire from the naval fortress doesn't hit anything, as it was too disrupted by the air attacks, which is a shame, as I didn't spot anything bigger than a large minelayer in the amphib force and I'd like to see what 12cm and 15cm guns can do to LST's.

Mounting an invasion of an atoll with minimal naval and air bombardment has one, inevitable result - the attackers are going to perform poorly in the forced shock attack. And sure enough...

quote:

Ground combat at Maloelap (136,117)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3185 troops, 94 guns, 40 vehicles, Assault Value = 137

Defending force 4920 troops, 61 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 105

Allied adjusted assault: 2

Japanese adjusted defense: 408

Allied assault odds: 1 to 204 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
961 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 145 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 23 (2 destroyed, 21 disabled)

Assaulting units:
5th Marine Regiment

Defending units:
41st Naval Guard Unit
Maizuru 4th SNLF
Maloelap Naval Fortress
25th Air Flotilla
Maloelap Base Force

There's plenty of supply, and all the units are in good condition, so the 5th Marines are stuck on the beach for the time being. If Loka has a second wave, now's the time to end them in!

I debated moving in air power to strike at the invasion, but I don't feel comfortable stripping aircraft away from SWPAC at present, and it would be a 2-3 turn wait before I could get enough good airframes in position to get off a good strike package. A shame really, I spent a fair bit of supply and time digging up airbases in the Marshalls, and now I'm likely not going to use them.

At least the supply spent digging Maloelap up to level 5 forts was not wasted!

South-West Pacific

Lae falls, just as the 64th Division links up with the 15th! Both units take heavy casualties, as do the two HQ's, and they are pushed out to the north. They'll start the long march to Hansa Bay.

quote:

Ground combat at Lae (99,126)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 21915 troops, 473 guns, 545 vehicles, Assault Value = 562

Defending force 20955 troops, 156 guns, 180 vehicles, Assault Value = 408

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 440

Japanese adjusted defense: 124

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Lae !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
6362 casualties reported
Squads: 201 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 356 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 42 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 97 (97 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 116 (116 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 5

Allied ground losses:
128 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
2/11th Armoured Car Battalion
40th Infantry Division
7th Infantry Division
181st Field Artillery Regiment
223rd Field Artillery Battalion
USMC AirFMFPac

Defending units:
15th Division
64th Division
8th Area Army
18th Army
49th Field AA Battalion

While the losses are bad, it is good news in that the 64th won't be cut off and destroyed. Plus, we tied down two US Army Divisions for a good while, and at this stage in the war I'll consider that a good result.

Elsewhere, a USN Fletcher squadron sinks an xAKL convoy at Aitpae and bombards the airbase. Damage isn't severe, so I've moved in aircraft to Hollandia and Aitpae for a big air action against Manus Island. Fighters from Aitpae will sweep the base, while Lily dive bombers from Hollandia will hopefully sink any ships in the area...

DEI

Naval and air bombardments of Latuem continue.

In the skies, Thunderbolts tangle with the best the IJN and IJA can offer. I've ever had much luck against the Thuds, even with a big layered CAP. The best Allied pilots in the best Allied fighters perform very well, so it's just a case of me feeding more meat into the grinder.

Supplies and reinforcements for Timor are about two turns out. 42k of supplies and artillery should go some way towards our efforts to force the Allies back into the ocean.

At Cocos Island, something very strange happens. The Allies land and attempt to take the island with the strangest amphibious force in history...

quote:

Ground combat at Cocos Islands (33,101)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 900 troops, 28 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 15

Defending force 1326 troops, 12 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 37

Allied adjusted assault: 2

Japanese adjusted defense: 10

Allied assault odds: 1 to 5 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
347 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 18 (7 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
163rd Light AA Regiment
102nd RAF Base Force /4

Defending units:
91st Naval Guard Unit

I suspect this was just an mistake as a result of "click fatigue" that the Allies get with such a large number of units in the late war. Nevertheless, I won't complain. I expect the main invasion to fall tomorrow.

The KB will back-track a day towards SWPAC in order to throw off Allied subs hunting it. I suspect the USN submarine force is trying to lay a trap for my carriers off Balikipapan, so the fake course towards New Guinea will hopefully throw them off the scent.

Burma

A big Frank sweep of Akyab goes in and gets disapointing results. 20 Hurricane IIcs and 1 Spitfire downed for 23 Franks lost. Eh, such is life. I'll be glad when I get the late-war aircraft and I can sweep the floor with the Allied fighters.

On the ground, the counter-attack from Paoshan shoves a big Chinese corp aside as if it didn't exist:

quote:

Ground combat at 63,45 (near Bhamo)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 52416 troops, 546 guns, 265 vehicles, Assault Value = 1840

Defending force 15459 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 572

Japanese adjusted assault: 898

Allied adjusted defense: 328

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1244 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 292 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 17 disabled

Allied ground losses:
5393 casualties reported
Squads: 169 destroyed, 107 disabled
Non Combat: 147 destroyed, 61 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
116th Division
48th Division
14th Division
51st Division
4th Tank Regiment
13th Mortar Battalion
RGC Army
6th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
56th Chinese Corps
2nd Group Army


My troops will pursue and hopefully trash another Chinese stack, but at the first sign of serious resistance they will run back to the safety of Paoshan and level 6 forts in a mountain hex.

In Central Burma, I'm attacking a Chinese corp hanging out north-west of Toungoo tomorrow with the 3rd Tank Division. I'm also going to send every bomber in the theater in at 5000ft to smash the Chinese corp before the attack goes in.

From what I can tell, Loka is using the Chinese troops to hold the frontline, and a mixture of Chinese and Indian troops for his offensive moves. This is smart - but using the Chinese on their own exposes their weaknesses: abysmal anti-armor values and a scarcity of artillery. That's highlighted in the combat report above: nearly 600 Chinese AV, with only 21 guns. I plan to exploit this to the full - I'll focus on damaging Loka's weakest link in Burma, the Chinese, in the hope that it will force him to pull more of his Indian units out of the big stacks and to other duties.

That combat serves to show that AV, after all, is just a number. I remember my worry that the Chinese that escaped to India in 1943 would be reinforcing at a rate of 350 AV every month through replacements. While that figure looks impressive, it hasn't been impressive when it's had to attack dug in Japanese troops, backed up by artillery in bad terrain. Yeah, if you let five Chinese corps gang up on a single Japanese division, you'll have a bad time, but otherwise, there's not much to worry about.

In that sense, my experience with the Chinese matches that of Bullwinkle vs Mike: the Chinese can garrison, and perhaps beat back units given overwhelming superiority. Otherwise, they're simply eating Allied supply up.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 530
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/7/2015 11:53:09 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		March 11th, 1944

North Pacific

Just to show Lokasenna that I'm not sleeping up here, I'm mounting a night raid on Shemya Island. It looks like there are some LST's sitting in the port, so we'll see if we can't sink some.

All of Hokkaido and Northern Honshu are now covered by both day and night CAP, abet thinly spread and the pilots are below average, but a couple weeks of flying CAP should bring them up to speed.

Central Pacific

The CVE White Plains, hit by two mini-sub torpedoes last turn, appears on the sunk list. The USN has withdrawn from the area around Maloelap.

The IJA 1st Raiding Regiment is being flown by transport aircraft from Roi-Namur to Maloelap to reinforce the garrison here in the hope that we can beat off the next Allied assault.

The Allies follow up on the landing at Maloelap by landing at Kusaie Island as well. CD guns on the island do a respectable job of keeping the Allied ships off-shore busy, but 15cm guns won't do well against battleships, though it will be interesting to see how they perform once the Allied battleships start to run low on ammo.

In terms of troops, the Allies get nearly 600 AV ashore, with more undoubtedly to follow. About 450 AV worth of Japanese units is opposing it, behind level 4 forts in x2 terrain. Supply will be the deciding factor here, as there's only 4k or so remaining on the island, and that may be quickly evaporated by airstrikes.

Ideally, I'd like to delay the fall of this island as long as possible - in Allied hands it really spells the end of Truk as a viable Japanese base, and I've an old CL sitting in Truk harbor frantically trying to repair system damage. I don't have very high hopes - the Allies have a lot of guns and a lot of armor, but on the bright side, the Combined 8th SNLF will be destroyed and I can buy it back in time to send it to the Marianas!

quote:

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6755 troops, 132 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 431

Defending force 14187 troops, 217 guns, 597 vehicles, Assault Value = 573

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Amphibious Brigade
Kure 3rd SNLF
44th Naval Guard Unit
Combined 8th SNLF
62nd Naval Guard Unit
65th Field AA Battalion
55th Field AA Battalion
8th JAAF Base Force
30th JAAF AF Bn
66th JNAF AF Unit
66th Field AA Battalion
16th JNAF AF Unit
144th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
2/7th Armoured Regiment
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
763rd Tank Battalion
6th Infantry Div /1
1881th Engineer Aviation Battalion
XIV US Corps /1


Ponape is being kicked in to high alert as well, and I'll see if I can't fly in some troops from Truk in the next few weeks to bolster the defenses of that base as well.

SWPAC

Sometimes you make the wrong call.

I made it last turn, sending Lily dive bombers out with the intention of hitting Allied shipping off Manus Island. I had debated using Kates, but they didn't have the range.

Sure enough, the Lily's catch the Allied fast battleship force in the open ocean east of Aitpae without air cover. Of course 100kg bombs don't do anything to battleships, and I kick myself for not sending the torpedo armed aircraft instead.

The Allied battleship force is within easy bombard range of both Aitpae and Hollandia, so everything in both bases that can fly has bugged out and we'll wait for the hammer blow to fall on the 12th. I've sent some PT boats I have lying around at the battleships in the hope of a lucky strike taking one of them out, but I won't hold my breath.

DEI

More shelling and bombing of Latuem. Supplies and troops two days out, and the regular express delivery service of 36cm shells from Surabaya has begun.

Cocos Island falls at last!

quote:

Ground combat at Cocos Islands (33,101)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 5544 troops, 108 guns, 77 vehicles, Assault Value = 168

Defending force 719 troops, 11 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Allied adjusted assault: 580

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 580 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Cocos Islands !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender:
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
684 casualties reported
Squads: 59 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 71 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 12 (12 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
21st Australian Brigade
163rd Light AA Regiment
RAF 225 Group Base Force /7
3rd (Special Force) Division
102nd RAF Base Force
120th RAF Base Force /2

Defending units:
91st Naval Guard Unit

Preparations are underway for the recapture of Cocos. I've sent the two Tone class crusiers off to the south of Cocos to see if they can't mount a quick bombardment run in on the base or pick off a strangling convoy or something.

The Mini-KB will deploy to Surabaya for the time being, while I'm sending the bulk of the KB back to Babeldoab. The Allies have been reconning Babeldoab, so I may move the KB's HQ to Davao or Manado in the next few turns. Resisting the temptation to rush the KB towards any one of his landings is difficult, but I've drawn my line in the sand at the Marianas.

Burma

Our attack on the lone Chinese corp north-west of Toungoo goes well, though we don't rout the unit:

quote:

Ground combat at 56,49 (near Toungoo)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7069 troops, 141 guns, 634 vehicles, Assault Value = 410

Defending force 17046 troops, 50 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 664

Japanese adjusted assault: 360

Allied adjusted defense: 1435

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
197 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Vehicles lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
746 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 81 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Division

Defending units:
94th Chinese Corps


We'll wait a couple of days until the extra tank regiments can move up the rail-line from Toungoo and give us overwhelming combat power.

I've set a little CAP trap for next turn, in anticipation that the Allied bomber force in Burma will jump at the chance to focus it's bombing on a big Japanese tank unit.

All in all, a good turn!

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 531
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 12:08:25 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		Just a couple of thoughts on Cocos Island. It has been a focus in our game, so Loka is well familiar with the dynamics there.

It's possible you don't place much weight on this base. I think you should (have.) Count hexes to your biggest and most important petroleum base. Also Batavia, one of the two keys to Java and a big supply generator for you. Also air control of the most important exit to the IO. Not fortifying there was . . . odd.

To re-take it you have to prep. Unless you have already done that I think your chances of re-taking are slight. A 1944 Aussie brigade is a rough customer, and he can have lots more on the island before you can prep. With LSTs he can dump and run and you probably can't stop him. You OTOH have only slow unloading amphibs, except for a tiny pool of LSDs and similar. Let me show you what happens with slow unloading, not 100-prepped landing forces, an auto-Shock attack, and forts. This was perhaps the worst island invasion beating I have ever taken when playing AE. It almost made me throw in the towel on the game.

Background: I had invaded the first time with this:

Ground combat at Cocos Islands (33,101)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 12205 troops, 399 guns, 193 vehicles, Assault Value = 332

Defending force 13812 troops, 129 guns, 73 vehicles, Assault Value = 411

Allied adjusted assault: 31

Japanese adjusted defense: 104

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), preparation(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
283 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2526 casualties reported
Squads: 149 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 71 (38 destroyed, 33 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Australian Division
11th (East African) Division
29th British Brigade
147th USA Base Force
3rd USN Naval Construction Regiment
4th USN Naval Construction Regiment

Defending units:
53rd Division
17th JAAF Base Force

The 4th Aussie was 100 prep, as was the British Brigade. The Africans, however, were only about 50. I got clocked. Fine. I saw Forts 4, I saw one defending division. I saw Japan get several (-) marks on key metrics. I got a lot of supply ashore as there was no air opposition, so I squatted and prepared a "rescue" mission.

In the interim Loka bombarded several times with BBs, and several times with 70+ Francis strikes from Java. Both were annoyances at best.

So, back in Perth, I gathered the rescue force. NB I did not have amphib ships. Just xAP, xAK. And Cocos is an auto-Shock island. The relief force was not all 100-prep either, but I thought the armor would withstand the first landing attack and I'd be back on track.

Loka got forts to 5 and flew in a second full ID. He also shipped in some tanks in the six weeks or so the prep, load, and transit took and did some probing attacks. So I knew there were some tanks there, but again, I was sending more and better tanks. I was totally blind on air search. And here is what happened.

Ground combat at Cocos Islands (33,101)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 21552 troops, 572 guns, 507 vehicles, Assault Value = 704

Defending force 26239 troops, 225 guns, 255 vehicles, Assault Value = 793

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 685

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
108 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 41 (21 destroyed, 20 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
18581 casualties reported
Squads: 1189 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 768 destroyed, 165 disabled
Engineers: 107 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 316 (307 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 503 (379 destroyed, 124 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Australian Division
32nd Infantry Div /11
194th Tank Battalion
29th British Brigade
11th (East African) Division
7th RAA Cst Art Rgt /2
3rd Motor Bde /6
2nd West African AA Rgt /3
4th USN Naval Construction Regiment
147th USA Base Force
3rd USN Naval Construction Regiment
148th USA Base Force /1
3rd West African AA Rgt /2
Fourteenth USAAF /1

Defending units:
19th Tank Regiment
2nd Division
53rd Division
18th Tank Regiment
17th JAAF Base Force


Because the game has no concept of a beachhead the auto-shock routine is a death spiral if you don't succeed on the first day. On the first day if you don't unload fast enough and in enough quantity, you will die like flies. Even Loka was stunned by my attack numbers. He figured I got the worst possible rolls, etc. He was very nice, no gloating. I evacced the scraps and he didn't try to destroy them, although what was left was a lot of 25lb guns and they do pretty well in defense. My US Army division is gutted, but can rebuild. The British brigade and the Aussie 4th, however, are toast for the duration given replacement squad rates. And he still has Cocos. Yes, he has two IDs tied up there, but it's worth that. It's a fulcrum base for both Java and Sumatra, and with B-24s, let alone B-29s, it can take on a lot of core Japanese economic targets. It can also provide search and air cover for later moves on Christmas IO as well as the offshore Sumatra bases in the south.

Maybe you got overly focused on the DEI and Solomons, but even Forts 3 on Cocos and he might have been wiped out on the beach. With 4 or 5 he'd have needed a whole lot more than a brigade.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/8/2015 1:15:36 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 532
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 12:56:53 PM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Wow!! That's a salutary tale.... Reviewing my DEI dispositions as I speak...

_____________________________

The most advanced nations are always those who navigate the most -
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 -1882)

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 533
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 1:33:45 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker84

Wow!! That's a salutary tale.... Reviewing my DEI dispositions as I speak...


It was a gut punch for sure. Ruined a Saturday night at my house.

There was also a naval component to the whole campaign I didn't mention. As I recall I torped two carriers, a CVE and a CVL I think, lightly but enough to keep further IJN carriers away. Not enough to stop them escorting the tanks in though. I also had Yorktown and a CVE cover the first landing, but the distances to Cocos are among the most extreme outside CentPac, and once the Francis bombers started showing up in numbers I sent the carriers back to Perth to refuel. Over the course of the squatting phase I never had fewer than six subs covering the Soerbaja approach vectors as well as the strait at Oosthaven.

Edit: I checked, as something didn't mesh in my memory. Not a hit on two carriers. Two hits on one carrier, CV Hiyo.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/8/2015 3:20:05 PM >

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The Moose

(in reply to Walker84)
Post #: 534
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 5:45:47 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Snip



Yeah, I neglected Cocos and now I'll pay. I've had engineers prepped on Sumatra for Cocos, but my priority was to get the airbases on Sumatra up and running first. My big fear was an Allied landing in Northern Sumatra and then to Burma.

As for the weak garrison, there was always a front where the need was more pressing. Even with the CEA freed up I'm still short for troops in places. Still, lesson learned.

As for long term plans, Cocos is still just one base, and a undeveloped one at that. I can sweep it from Christmas Island. I've IJN 2E's based at Batavia that are going to hit the port at night. I've more or less the entire surface strength of the IJN deployed in the DEI, and the full KB.

Loka's split his carrier forces up to speed up his advance - what he has off Cocos isn't his full strength. I'm confident that I can suppress Cocos, and once it's suppressed, it should be easy to keep suppressed. It will tie the IJN down, which is an issue, but Loka's not reach the perimiter that I feel comfortable commiting the KB to defend anyways, and Cocos is the biggest threat to the Empire at present.

It's not all rosy for the Allies either. Cocos is waaay out there for the Allies, and I can pick up reinforcements from way out, and with him controlling the base I can directly bombard his supply in the hex. No airbase in the hex either, so Loka's got carrier air alone to depend upon until he can dig one up himself, and hopefully bombing/bombardment make that difficult.

I'm fairly confidant I can suppress the base. Retaking it may be the issue.

Still, I would have been easier to leave a brigade behind level 5 forts and not have to worry about it.

If I wasn't sufficiently worried, I am now.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 535
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 6:03:52 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Snip



Yeah, I neglected Cocos and now I'll pay. I've had engineers prepped on Sumatra for Cocos, but my priority was to get the airbases on Sumatra up and running first. My big fear was an Allied landing in Northern Sumatra and then to Burma.

As for the weak garrison, there was always a front where the need was more pressing. Even with the CEA freed up I'm still short for troops in places. Still, lesson learned.

As for long term plans, Cocos is still just one base, and a undeveloped one at that. I can sweep it from Christmas Island. I've IJN 2E's based at Batavia that are going to hit the port at night. I've more or less the entire surface strength of the IJN deployed in the DEI, and the full KB.

Loka's split his carrier forces up to speed up his advance - what he has off Cocos isn't his full strength. I'm confident that I can suppress Cocos, and once it's suppressed, it should be easy to keep suppressed. It will tie the IJN down, which is an issue, but Loka's not reach the perimiter that I feel comfortable commiting the KB to defend anyways, and Cocos is the biggest threat to the Empire at present.

It's not all rosy for the Allies either. Cocos is waaay out there for the Allies, and I can pick up reinforcements from way out, and with him controlling the base I can directly bombard his supply in the hex. No airbase in the hex either, so Loka's got carrier air alone to depend upon until he can dig one up himself, and hopefully bombing/bombardment make that difficult.

I'm fairly confidant I can suppress the base. Retaking it may be the issue.

Still, I would have been easier to leave a brigade behind level 5 forts and not have to worry about it.

If I wasn't sufficiently worried, I am now.


If he dumps two Seabee regiments there (I don't know what he has at this date, but it's at least a dozen, plus 20 or so battalions) you won't bomb fast enough to prevent airbase build out. He can put Corsairs and Jugs on CVEs in Oz and launch them onto Cocos from far, far out. He can supply from DG, or directly from CT without you seeing them incoming until the terminal phase. And once he has search there he can put a couple of DD TFs to the west with refueling farther west again, and your bombardments could get pricey.

In the meantime you need multiple, prime CAP units at Pbang and they'll need to stay there . . . forever. That's the real power of Cocos. Not what it can do, but what it makes you do. In our game I didn't get it and I lost 800 VP or so not getting it. But he has to sit two good IDs plus armor there for awhile.

In your game he got it for free.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/8/2015 7:13:25 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 536
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 6:35:25 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Snip



Yeah, I neglected Cocos and now I'll pay. I've had engineers prepped on Sumatra for Cocos, but my priority was to get the airbases on Sumatra up and running first. My big fear was an Allied landing in Northern Sumatra and then to Burma.

As for the weak garrison, there was always a front where the need was more pressing. Even with the CEA freed up I'm still short for troops in places. Still, lesson learned.

As for long term plans, Cocos is still just one base, and a undeveloped one at that. I can sweep it from Christmas Island. I've IJN 2E's based at Batavia that are going to hit the port at night. I've more or less the entire surface strength of the IJN deployed in the DEI, and the full KB.

Loka's split his carrier forces up to speed up his advance - what he has off Cocos isn't his full strength. I'm confident that I can suppress Cocos, and once it's suppressed, it should be easy to keep suppressed. It will tie the IJN down, which is an issue, but Loka's not reach the perimiter that I feel comfortable commiting the KB to defend anyways, and Cocos is the biggest threat to the Empire at present.

It's not all rosy for the Allies either. Cocos is waaay out there for the Allies, and I can pick up reinforcements from way out, and with him controlling the base I can directly bombard his supply in the hex. No airbase in the hex either, so Loka's got carrier air alone to depend upon until he can dig one up himself, and hopefully bombing/bombardment make that difficult.

I'm fairly confidant I can suppress the base. Retaking it may be the issue.

Still, I would have been easier to leave a brigade behind level 5 forts and not have to worry about it.

If I wasn't sufficiently worried, I am now.



In your game he got it for free.


This is the second time in this game where the value of certain hexes hasn't been aparent until it's too late. First was New Ireland as a move to outflank Rabual. Now it's Cocos as a threat against Palembang.

Lesson learned.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 537
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 6:53:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

This is the second time in this game where the value of certain hexes hasn't been aparent until it's too late. First was New Ireland as a move to outflank Rabual. Now it's Cocos as a threat against Palembang.

Lesson learned.



In our game right now there's a donnybrook going on over Pt. Blair. I'm down about 700 VPs, 3-4 cruisers (lost track) an APA and a CVE and a lot of good transports. But two big IDs ashore that dropped Forts 5 by one on the first attack. He lost Mogami.

But in the same way Pt. Blair isn't about Pt. Blair. It's about Rangoon. I know that and he knows that. He has an ID-plus at Blair behind the forts. He has, I think, five carriers of various sizes in the slot, to my 2.5. But it's a pivotal battle for Burma.

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(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 538
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 8:16:19 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

In the meantime you need multiple, prime CAP units at Pbang and they'll need to stay there . . . forever. That's the real power of Cocos. Not what it can do, but what it makes you do.



+1; good luck on trying to keep it suppressed.

It can be an Island deathtrap for Allied planes potentially. On the positive side.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 539
RE: Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/8/2015 10:19:33 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

In the meantime you need multiple, prime CAP units at Pbang and they'll need to stay there . . . forever. That's the real power of Cocos. Not what it can do, but what it makes you do.



+1; good luck on trying to keep it suppressed.

It can be an Island deathtrap for Allied planes potentially. On the positive side.



Alfred said long ago something I never forgot, but don't or can't always do. Paraphrasing: "If you want to hold an island you must have air superiority AND sea superiority. Neither is sufficient alone."

Way too often in AARs we see players try to defend islands only with air power. Can't work. To defend a key island you must be prepared to lose ships as well. That's the problem I have. I don't care a whit for airplanes, but my ships are like children.

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