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[SCENARIO DESIGN ERROR] Raptors do not engage hostiles

 
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[SCENARIO DESIGN ERROR] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 7:56:22 PM   
Marder


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/25/2013
Status: offline 		what am i doing wrong?
Group 5127 does not attack automatically, even not if i hit F1 and select the Migs.

After allocating the Sparrows manually the F-22As fire immediately.


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< Message edited by emsoy -- 9/11/2015 8:47:24 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 8:27:40 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		My first attempt stated that the Mig-25s stated they were outside the DLZ because they were travelling too fast. I am going to let it play out a little longer.

btw, I didn't see any Sparrows...I am working with 120s.

(in reply to Marder)
Post #: 2
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 8:37:21 PM   
Rhygin00

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 11/4/2014
Status: offline 		The manual attack window states that the 120s are on weapons hold (WCA). Side NATO is set to tight, the group is set to tight, but the singular aircraft are set to HOLD. You can see it if you detach them individually. Set everybody to tight and regroup.

Should group WCA supersede individual WCA? You decide!

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 3
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 8:51:51 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think there is a problem there. I see the same thing. The individual aircraft I think should follow the mission WCA, unless they were changed after the mission executed. I am guessing.

(in reply to Rhygin00)
Post #: 4
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 8:57:38 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		So I played around with this a little . Re ran it with as much of a reset as I could do and everything seems to work fine. Somewhere before that save, the individual planes had their WCS set to Hold. That is the issue.

From what I can see, the original scenario had all the F-22s set to weapons HOLD. Not sure how that made it into the mission because it would seem that the mission would override the units' ROE. Unless they were changed after mission start.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/5/2015 10:08:55 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 5
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 11:16:57 PM   
Kitchens Sink

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/4/2014
Status: offline 		I have also run into several situations recently where Mission Doctrine is not overriding Side Doctrine, and/or where individual units in a Group are not conforming to the Group Mission Doctrine. I recall the problem was with weapons control status RoE doctrine and not EMCON or WRA. I don't have a save, but I'll try to remember to save when it comes up again. I'm using 1.09 RC1 Build 735 currently.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 6
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/5/2015 11:19:38 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		It is WCA. I think that is the point. One of the ways to troubleshoot anything like this is to use a manual attack and look at the messages in that dialog. In this case, it specifically states WCA is set to HOLD.

I am also curious why the scenario author set all the planes at tat base to HOLD.

(in reply to Kitchens Sink)
Post #: 7
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/6/2015 12:11:14 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		So ran a test where I tried all convolutions of adding and creating missions. All indicators say that ROC/WCA is set to Tight...except the individual units. They are on HOLD and the units follow that one. I tried changing mission ROE after mission start and no change on unit status.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 8
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/6/2015 12:21:36 PM   
Marder


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/25/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for investigation.

So, is it a bug or a scenario- issue?

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 9
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/6/2015 1:07:56 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I suspect its a bug that has been hidden because no one would normally set landed aircraft as HOLD. But I am not the final say on it by far.

(in reply to Marder)
Post #: 10
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/11/2015 6:22:25 PM   
Marder


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/25/2013
Status: offline 		So it's the scenario- designers "fault"...
Very annoying when my raptors get shot down because they do not follow my doctrine.

< Message edited by Marder2075 -- 9/11/2015 7:22:43 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 11
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/11/2015 6:27:31 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Its not just their "fault". Check doctrine for units before the start. Make sure inherit is on and use the reset button.

(in reply to Marder)
Post #: 12
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/11/2015 7:17:05 PM   
Marder


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/25/2013
Status: offline 		thanks for the workaround tip.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 13
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/11/2015 7:46:33 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Looked real quick. This is a scenario design issue

If you order a manual attack (Shift + F1), and you have the 'Show Automatic Fire Information' checkbox selected, the simulator will tell you why the aircraft cannot fire automatically.

Then if you press Ctrl + Shift + F9 the Side Doctrine will open. Press the 'Reset affected units' button to make sure all inherit the side-level doctrine setting. You can drag-select unit and use Ctrl +F9 to set or reset doctrine settings for the highlighted units.

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to Marder)
Post #: 14
RE: [736] Raptors do not engage hostiles - 9/12/2015 6:23:41 AM   
Marder


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/25/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks emsoy!

< Message edited by Marder2075 -- 9/12/2015 7:24:00 AM >

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 15
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