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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Japanese Aircraft

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RE: Japanese Aircraft - 8/28/2015 6:22:02 PM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Theages

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

b) The Nick Ia upgraded to the Nick Ic not to the Nick 1b I wanted to change the research to the upgrade model, but the factories were damaged. So I needed tracker to find out the fact the 1a upgraded to 1c and not 1b which means you lose the undamaged factory bonus. Had I known this before.... Question is this WAD?

This is why tracker is your friend.
I don't see any benefit in the versions b and c. They get bigger guns, but with reduced accuracy (only 1 and 3 despite being centerline). Once I read in a thread, that the a seems to be the best version (common consensus?) at least against bombers. The b and c could be better against ground / ship.

I believe the Nick a has the best performance but only 1 cannon (20mm)? Dont have the game here but it could be a bit too light vs. 4e. Allied B24s are already the best fighters for the enemy right now

They shot down 2 Zeros eg. lastly - enemy fighters shoot down masses of Oscars sometimes but Zeros seldom. This is a job for their 4e bombers. Even the DB7 and Mitchell are hard to shoot down, you know the messages, right? "driven away by def. fire", "Oscar damaged" "Oscar driven away" "Oscar shooting at 3,2,1 hex.................nothing". "DB7 damaged" (Whow)... "Oscar driven away"... "Oscar engine cutting out" "Oscar falls away" "Oscar low on ammo...." "Oscar driven away" "Oscar damaged" "Oscar cant catch bomber" etc. Finally we may get a bomber down, after most CAP has left

So the later Nick with the heavy gun is worth a try imo. Also the Tojo with cannon. But I would agree that my research on Nick was more or less worthless. It first modell would not appear ealier anyway, the 2nd modell is no upgrade and cost me the bonus. And as you said their worth is questionable - but needs to tried. I know from an Allied game from 4 yr. ago that Nick for me was a more feared opponent. Cannot remember which one. All of them perhaps. At least Allies need a lot of own fighters to keep them away from the bombers...so my reasoning which may be flawed. Lets see. Some Nicks should come in some 2 weeks or so game time...

Also checked pilots, some are in the 80ties range, guess good enough.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 8/28/2015 7:23:39 PM >

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Post #: 61

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 8/30/2015 5:35:31 PM

Alpha77

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Btw: The "Nick" can not be employed in great numbers, it turns out only 2-3 Oscar can upgrade to them. So mostly you can convert the light bomber groups to them but pay 150pp each

Your choice

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 62

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 8/30/2015 7:27:50 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Very valid point.. and this is of course just my opinion... if I change the 30 sized Sonia factory to build Oscars; it will of course cost more, but Oscar is a model in which I won't be afraid of increasing the factory size to even 100 or 150 planes a month; this because Oscar had a longer upgrade path that will allow me to have a 1st rate fighter in early 42, then a good escort in late 42/ 43 and then a very good kamikaze platform (long range, 2x250kg bombs, manouverable, relatively fast).

What I am saying is that keeping a factory building Sonia's for the entire war has an opportunity cost of using the factory for something else that might be better

I think this illustrates one of the reasons the game is good. All the decisions.

Bear in mind that kamikaze Oscars use fighter squadrons, and there may come a time when you want them all to be fighters. I think the Frank A would make a far superior kamikaze (hat tip to Mr. Kane). I hope you are reading this Jocke...Frank A kamikazes. Scary.

With respect to Kami's, I tend to agree with Lowpe here; Particularly for PDU OFF. numbers matter for kami attacks. a lot of groups don't upgrade, or upgrade really late. IDA/Sonia pools allow you to use those groups instead of sitting around. Oscar is frequently quoted as a great kami by many, my testing shows it is only fair. It can hit AP/AK, but against capital ships it is much less effective. 2x250kg <> 500kg in damage. Rarely penetrates BB armor in my experience. Lowpe's point is quite important: you are burning fighter groups which in general you don't want to in late war. Next, it is a fighter and for me bombers bomb better than fighters. That may seem obvious when you state it, but a lot of players seem to overlook that.
For PDU ON, then this is less of a factor since you have more flexibility and more groups can be upgraded to a true kami model like the Tsurugi (almost all IJA bomber groups in PDU ON, albeit for a PP cost on some). Tsurugi is fearsome in numbers. Decent range, big payload (800KG), faster than Oscar, and ha35 engine. My play in Armageddon and Downfall has shown me this baby can really work when massed. Even one hit is consequential. more than one will kill almost anything other than a BB. And they tend to hit those already on fire ...

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/30/2015 8:30:19 PM >

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Post #: 63

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 8/30/2015 7:40:36 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Remember related engine production as well.... but what would you recommend if PDU is off?

A lot of people have forgotten all the old AAR's when everyone only played PDU OFF. Go back and read them. Look at Mike's first one ... 5 - 6 years ago? something like that.
Oscar, A6M, Judy/Jill. These are pretty much for sure. Other models? Not so much. Others argue otherwise, but the fact remains, you have few groups that can upgrade to models other than those above. Many of the groups aren't available until the airframe normally arrives. Between the two factors it is hard to rationalize spending the supply on the RnD. Building MORE of what you can use, knowing you will lose MORE of them is what makes more sense.
In PDU OFF, you really cannot have too many Oscar or A6M. Your losses after about 3/43 are really going to take off. Just plan on it. Yes you can get a few Tojo/Frank groups. But the allied player, if he is smart, knows that. Both aircraft are DEFENSIVE aircraft due to range. They are NOT offensive. All he has to do is attack where they are not. When they show up, shift theatre's. You don't get enough of either to have them everywhere.
Again, I don't say don't build them. I just can't see spending 100K's of supply on RnD to get them a few months early. My opinion. YMMV. Read Mike.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/30/2015 8:42:07 PM >

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Post #: 64

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 8/30/2015 7:51:38 PM

PaxMondo

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Double Post.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/30/2015 8:57:16 PM >

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Post #: 65

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 8/30/2015 7:56:25 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Japanese bible
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2959613

There is one before this AAR that has much more discussion on economy and AC builds ... maybe 2 years before? Something like that. The above referenced AAR is PDU ON. His previous was PDU OFF.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/30/2015 8:56:45 PM >

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Post #: 66

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/7/2015 1:10:42 PM

kstoddard2

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How long does it take a factory to "repair" when you change the aircraft it will produce. I changed the factory that was to build the Rufe to A6M2 production on 12/7. It is 1/8 and still not producing anything. It's set to repair but nada....

Kyle

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Post #: 67

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/7/2015 1:16:49 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kstoddard2

How long does it take a factory to "repair" when you change the aircraft it will produce. I changed the factory that was to build the Rufe to A6M2 production on 12/7. It is 1/8 and still not producing anything. It's set to repair but nada....

Kyle

Supplies must be over 20k for factory repairs to occur.

(in reply to kstoddard2)

Post #: 68

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/7/2015 3:29:28 PM

LargeSlowTarget

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Isn't that 10k?

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Post #: 69

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/7/2015 4:01:36 PM

kstoddard2

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But doesn't the automatic supply distribution system ensure that happens? And if not how does one move supply ton a base in the center if Japan without a port?

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RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/7/2015 4:13:54 PM

PaxMondo

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Increase the supply demand ...

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Post #: 71

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/7/2015 5:52:15 PM

Numdydar

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If the supply needs are met, then it will repair 1 point per day. So 30 damaged production factories (of any kind, HI LI, etc.) will be fully repaired in a month. R&D factories are very different and do NOT repair this way.

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Post #: 72

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/8/2015 10:15:18 AM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kstoddard2

But doesn't the automatic supply distribution system ensure that happens? And if not how does one move supply ton a base in the center if Japan without a port?

No, it only care about units and ships to get the supply they need. It does not care about fac repairs. You need to see for yourself to get the supplies to cities where you wanna repair stuff. Use supply storage on and increase demand, voila�

(in reply to kstoddard2)

Post #: 73

RE: Japanese Aircraft - 9/8/2015 10:47:20 AM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Isn't that 10k?

Yup, but better 20000 or higher depending how many facs are there to repair.

ON topic: Rethought the Oscar, forgot about its range... so for LR escort/sweep you DO need Oscars....Tojo range too short. And early Tojo has no cannon too..

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 9/8/2015 11:50:16 AM >

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Post #: 74