rroberson
Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
quote:
ORIGINAL: rroberson
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Come on guys. For the purposes of command structure, an HQ is an HQ is an HQ is an HQ. It's just somewhere on the organizational hierarchy. It doesn't matter whether it's an air, ground, sea, or kitchen HQ for whether a unit is restricted or not. Yes, most of these examples are air HQs, but some aren't. And besides that, unless the person in question moved the VII Bomber Command to some other top-level HQ besides the one it starts in (Pacific Ocean Areas IIRC), there's no "saving" on the PP cost in that case anyway.
You're not about to insist that because the I Australian HQ is within the Australia Command restricted HQ hierarchy that buying out your Australian units to the I Australian, for "one quarter" of the non-Australian cost, is really against your vaunted Spirit Of The Game, are you? Not to mention that Dutch units in Australia, which participated in the ABDA command (hint: the D stands for Dutch), is not at all out of bounds. Don't be ridiculous.
I say the spirit of the game is to smash our units together until they're all broken on one side. I don't get how restricting yourself in a sandbox alternate history game is any fun for anyone. A house rule against ground units having air HQs is even more bonkers than a no strategic bombing in 1943 rule. 
Bullshit.
I know for a fact....a fact...that an unscrupulous Japanese player can go hog wild releasing Japanese divisions via the PP route and using air HQs which are much cheaper then land HQs. I had one do this very thing to a couple of years back and I couldn't figure out how each and EVERY one of his invasions contained multiple divisions until one of his former opponents mentioned what he was doing to me. It's beyond gamey and borders on out right cheating.
OK, I'll call your bullhonkey bluff with a nice steaming pile of facts. I take it by the tone of your response that I touched a nerve, and well.. truth stings sometimes. You know the Allies can do the exact same thing, right? If anything, PPs are even harder on the Allies. Not doing this as the Allies would hamstring them more than the Japanese - it would take months to buy out just 2 divisions, but instead you can do this and it would take weeks. The PP system is awful at this aspect of the game. PPs themselves are an afterthought to the game's design. They work fine for unit COs and such, but for the purchasing of units... they just don't. Or for ship withdrawals. But that's a different (though related) discussion.
Air HQs aren't innately cheaper than land HQs. It's the fact that there are unrestricted air HQs nested within a couple of the large top-level HQs. I think you're just getting hung up on the "air" HQ part of it. I'll list some off the top of my head:
For Japan, in China/Manchuria, there is the 8th Air Division (I think). Maybe it's 13th. For the Home Islands stuff, it's 11th Air Flotilla. That's it.
For the Allies:
There's the I Australian (and maybe II Australian, I forget) for Australia... but if you change either of those, which are themselves restricted while their subunits are not, then you can't do this.
There are several British/Indian examples.
Eleventh USAAF (and 2 sub-HQs within it) for the US.
For the Dutch, you can switch them to ABDA - that's a top level and not even one of these hated Air HQs!
And if you noticed him using so many divisions... that has its own consequences, such as a Manchuria that's at 8001/8000 AV for the garrison. Or a weak China. Or a weak Burma. Maybe you can' take advantage right away, but you could eventually.
Yup and it makes them JUST as unscrupulous if they are doing that, which is rather the entire point of my original post. Who spends the time doing this crap. Where is the fun in gaming the system to the point that you can't get play a decent game anymore. The system was not designed to be used this way and only players looking to gain an unfair advantage over an otherwise trusting opponent would bend the system like this.
I have played the Japanese almost exclusively for 10 years. Only recently have I gotten to play the allies (the last two years or so). I am well versed in the orders of battle of each side. So when I see massed divisions making landings 3 or 4 months after the game starts...I'm pretty positive I know exactly what is going on. The abandoned game I took over, the guy before me flipped all the dutch units to ABDA and moved them to Australia...really? Why bother to even play the game.
No sir, I get that there are players who win and any costs and I hope they have many games against each other...for my gaming I will continue to seek honorable opponents who enjoy the trip, not those who are in a race to the finish.
So I ask you again, why would you even play a game where you are gaming the system rather then you know...playing the game...
_____________________________
|
Printable Version
Gamey play - 
I've played 1942 way too often, and a big part of my fun is making the most of those undermanned, under-equipped units.
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread