Engage defensive by subs

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Engage defensive by subs - 9/28/2015 5:39:01 PM

Chris21wen

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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I'm correct in saying that once a unit's status becomes 'Engage Defensive' you have no control over the unit.

I've played a number of scenarios now and I've come to the conclusion that subs are virtually dead meat once fired on. I agree they are vulnerable when detected but the sole defensive tactics seems to be, deep as possible at full speed away. I've seen no course or depth changes nor have I seen any sub fire a decoy yet, not that there'll help much.

< Message edited by Chris H -- 9/28/2015 6:43:16 PM >

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/28/2015 5:42:00 PM

Lawdog1700

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Joined: 6/6/2014
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Chris has a good point. I've never seen a sub ever use a decoy either. That's a little odd, given I've played like 500+ hours of Command.

Is there any reason for this?

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/28/2015 6:12:15 PM

kneecaps

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Joined: 12/27/2006
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I've seen subs fire decoys many times. I haven't played a sub mission lately but do recall seeing them deployed like chaff...I don't recall if the decoys appear like sonobouys..I don't believe they do.

I've personally found the extreme range shots the Computer likes to take very survivable...it's usually possible to run the torpedo out of fuel...

However when used correctly it is difficult for even advanced subs to escape a torpedo. My favorite is dropping a fish directly into the face of an oncoming sub, ideally around 0.5 miles away.

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/28/2015 6:32:50 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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Same reason why you don't see planes and ships deploy decoys, the game does not depict decoy deployment. However, if you look at the hit resolution text you can see that decoys are being deployed and that they influence hit probabilities.

Subs going defensive is tricky as they simply do not have the agility to dodge torpedo's that are closing in. They can only try to outrun the torpedo (which happens regularly in-game) or try to decoy it using active countermeasures (which also happens regularly). I do however agree that the standard evasive maneuver of running away from an incoming torpedo is not always the best solution (if the torpedo is detected from a long range, you could theoretically try to maneuver out of the sonar cone by maneuvering perpendicularity to the torpedo direction), but as most ASW torpedo's are being fired either from ASROC like weapons or ASW helicopters, these torpedo's are dropped right on top of you and can only be avoided using countermeasures so evasive maneuvers are moot.

The real world is not like The hunt for red October where you can outmaneuver multiple torpedo's, if a sub gets detected by a modern opponent IRL there is a very good chance that it will be killed outright by modern ASW weapons.

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/29/2015 12:05:48 AM

mikmykWS

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Decoys are deployed automatically like aircraft decoys. If you're not seeing this please be sure to post a save showing the behavior.

Here's an example of one being used in the log of a test scenario of a current build:

quote:

12:29:41 AM - Decoy (SCAD 102; Tech: Early 2000s) from S 107 Trafalgar is attempting to seduce sensor: Torpedo Seeker (Tech: Early 1970s)(Guiding weapon: AT-2M #8). Final probability: 40%. Result: 52 - FAILURE

You can turn off engaged offensive using the automatic evasion ROE.

The AI's engagement range can be adjusted in WRA's.

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/29/2015 6:36:28 AM

Dimitris

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You guys read the original manual and the "Manual Addendum" pages, right? Just checking.

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/29/2015 10:08:18 AM

thewood1

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As to decoys...I have never seen decoys mentioned in the manual or addendum. But the answer did come up on a forum search.

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/29/2015 2:38:51 PM

Lawdog1700

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Joined: 6/6/2014
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Well, I will have to pay closer attention to the Message Log next time I have a sub under attack then.

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RE: Engage defensive by subs - 9/29/2015 4:10:46 PM

AlGrant

Posts: 912
Joined: 8/18/2015
Status: offline

I'm just playing through USS Baltimore CS1 - Typhoon Hell, 1983.

Just had an active SONOBOUY dropped 2nm from me, this was quickly followed by a torpedo almost directly on top.
Thankfully submarines do deploy decoys and they work

====Edit====
Actually just noticed the 'Failure' - So I guess a decoy was deployed but wasn't the reason the torpedo missed!

< Message edited by AlGrant -- 9/29/2015 5:26:15 PM >

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Post #: 9