Air strike missions in poor weather

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Air strike missions in poor weather

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Air strike missions in poor weather

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Air strike missions in poor weather - 9/29/2015 3:57:35 AM

HaughtKarl

Posts: 116
Joined: 1/28/2015
Status: offline

I've been experimenting with air strike missions using maximum cloud coverage and darkness with dedicated strike aircraft such as the A-6 and the F-111.

In testing I found that if I keep A-6/and F-111 in EMCON entire flight they are able to fly at 300ft AGL and successfully bomb the targets at night and with maximum cloud coverage. Max coverage in in CMANO is surface fog and solid cloud cover up to 36,000 ft. Whether or not I enable their radars appears to makes no difference to the sim. On or off both jets will hug the deck and bomb their targets successfully using regular dumb bombs.

I then tried using the A-4 which is a daytime VFR light attack jet and it too was able to fly low and bomb it's target despite max cloud cover and darkness.

I know that the sim takes into account cloud cover for laser guided munitions in that the strike aircraft must be below the clouds to illuminate their targets, but what about the conditions I described above? Attack planes like the A-6 and the F-111 were designed as all weather day/night strike platforms, but yet in CMNAO any jet can fly nap of the earth at dark and in max cloud coverage as if it were daytime with clear skies and unlimited visibility. Is this intended?

Post #: 1

RE: Air strike missions in poor weather - 9/29/2015 6:40:14 AM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

If you observe aircraft that do not have TA/TF radars and compare them with those that do (e.g. F-111, Su-24/34, Tornado, F-15/16 w/ LANTIRN etc.) you should notice a definite difference in minimum flight altitude both overland and overwater. Factors such as terrain slope (overland), sea state (overwater) and crew proficiency also play a role.

_____________________________

Facebook
Twitter

(in reply to HaughtKarl)

Post #: 2

RE: Air strike missions in poor weather - 9/29/2015 10:00:35 AM

ComDev

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline

I hope to add weather and day/night limitations to Command 1.10. In fact, work is already underway although I make no promises re: being able to finish the stuff in time. Horribly complex stuff that needs to fit into an already complex sim.

Would be great if you could upload a bunch of scens that I can validate the new functionality against. What special cases exists?

_____________________________

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to Dimitris)

Post #: 3

RE: Air strike missions in poor weather - 9/29/2015 5:16:28 PM

Adam106

Posts: 52
Joined: 7/22/2012
Status: offline

Emsoy, I would love to see that implemented in 1.10....

To properly model the weather limitations and consequent advantages a Tornado / F-111 capability brings would you not need to modify the 'instant borg spotting' currently in the game? As I understand it, as soon as a enemy unit is located by one unit it's location is broadcast to every friendly unit on map. Imagine a case where you've got thick cloud down to the deck or a dark black night. You've got a bunch of F-16 block 40's with TFR and FLIR and a bunch of elderly F-5s. Currently, as I understand the F-16s could locate and ID enemy units and attack them. But now the enemies location/type are known to the F-5s, the VFR/day only F-5's are just as effective. Is this how it works now? From what I've seen it is. The F-5's have a less sophisticated bomb sight in their database for sure and this modifies their bomb CEP once the weapon has been dropped, but if they can't even 1. Find their Target and 2. See it well enough to bring their crude bombsights into play, then they should be useless.

This then opens the field to modelling navigational accuracy in poor IFR weather. What about limitations to launching and recovery at airbases. Weather minimums (Vis and cloud base) for takeoff and landing? Crosswind limits? It all gets a bit complicated.

As an aside - I'm pretty sure all F-111's can TFR down to 200ft. The in game height is currently 300ft. The flight manuals I've seen have a knob selector that goes down to 200ft... Can I also suggest that high quality air forces should be able to manually fly lower (think 50-100ft) than this over land in good VFR/day weather - TFR or no TFR.

< Message edited by Adam106 -- 9/29/2015 6:21:03 PM >

(in reply to ComDev)

Post #: 4

RE: Air strike missions in poor weather - 9/29/2015 6:52:53 PM

MBot

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/1/2014
Status: offline

Interesting topic, I recently wondered about this myself.

As a rule of thumb I would expect the following behavior if the attacker aircraft does not track the target by its own on-board sensors (visual, radar, FLIR, laser spot tracker):
-Stationary or moving target: target not attacked
-Stationary target, target detected externally/known position: target not attacked
-Stationary target, target detected externally/known position, attacker has INS/GPS nav-attack system: target attacked (coordinates entered into INS/GPS)
-Moving target, target detected externally, attacker has INS/GPS nav-attack system: target not attacked (only usable against stationary targets)
-Moving target, target detected externally, datalink established: target attacked

I attached 3 simple scenarios where currently an attack takes place (even if sometimes multiple passes are required) where I think it should not. The setup is: target small boat, detected by SH-60, attacked by AV-8C (only visual sensor).
Variant 1: Day, thick ground fog (no visual contact established)
Variant 2: Night, clear (visual contact established)
Variant 3: Night, overcast (visual contact established)

Variant 2 might be debatable, as visibility in clear nights with moon light might be good (is this modeled?). On the other hand it might be questionable if aggressive combat maneuvers associated with dropping bombs can be performed safely at night even if basic VFR navigation is possible. Is there any anecdotal evidence for example from Vietnam? I think variant 3 should not produce a visual detection and subsequent attack. If an overcast night is not pitch black, then what else is?