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Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 6:25:01 AM

Jagdtiger14

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Now that the civil war has moved into a new phase...check this out:

Russian Mi-24 Hind's on the attack:

http://www.businessinsider.com/dramatic-videos-show-mi-24-hind-gunships-fighting-rebels-in-syria-2015-10?r=UK&IR=T

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 6:27:49 AM

Jagdtiger14

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Syrian rebels defending well, ask for US help (which wont come):

http://www.voanews.com/content/syrian-interim-government-prime-minister-calls-for-us-help-claims-assad-setback/2997147.html

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 7:59:08 AM

Josh

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So uh ... there's the Assad regime, the Free Syrian Army, all kinds of militia groups and ISIS. There's Jordan to the South, Lebanon to the West, Turkey to the North, the PKK and YPG in nothern Syria/Iraq, then there's Iran, Russia, China and oh wait the US led coalition forces of the West as well. It's getting mightily confusing there.

Who's shooting at who exactly?

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 11:37:26 AM

operating

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Thanks for sharing!

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 5:01:11 PM

Jagdtiger14

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Today ISIS took over three rebel held areas north of Alepo (captured weapons and ammo). Previously and currently the Russians were/are bombing the rebels (not ISIS) there. Also, ISIS killed an Iranian high level commander.

The US has decided against training any more rebels (was a failure anyway since the rebels were never vetted...how stupid can it get?). Saw a story today that the US might send weapons to rebels, or pull out of Syria completely (I guess they have not made up their minds?). Selling some kind of advanced artillery system to Lebanon (mistake).

March 26, 2012 (Seoul, South Korea) a discussion never intended to be public: Obama to Dmitry Medvedev: "This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility". Medvedev to Obama: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir".

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 7:17:50 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

It's getting mightily confusing there. Who's shooting at who exactly?

If go to this web page:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34486572

and then scroll down to the Flash graphic "Who�s fighting whom in Syria? Explained in 90 seconds" you might find it interesting.

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 7:57:13 PM

Jagdtiger14

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I have been following the war in Syria for a while now. Here is a really good site if you want to follow the land gains/losses and who is where (its updated constantly...at least once per day):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Syrian_Civil_War_detailed_map

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/9/2015 8:50:09 PM

operating

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Perhaps Matrix will produce a game centered around this Syrian Civil War? There's all kinds of scenarios that could be included. Strategy yes, tactics would have to be a strong point of the game, fighting without air support, stealth, movement, a seemingly endless array of options could be included within the game.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 1:51:29 AM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

Perhaps Matrix will produce a game centered around this Syrian Civil War?

There's an ethical problem there: games about past wars can be instructive, and games about potential wars can be valuable in letting everyone know how destructive it would be. But games about current wars, when neither side shows any sign of quitting, could quite possibly be used to work out strategies and launch further assaults -- in other words, to actually aid in killing people.

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 2:26:36 AM

Ranger33

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CMANO has some user made scenarios in the theater I think, if not someone is probably making them. Now with Russia entering the picture those could get even more interesting. There are also scenarios set in the Ukraine conflict.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 4:09:42 AM

operating

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In all practicality, the development of a game of the modern era would take quite a bit of time. What it takes to do programming? I do not know? Who would invest in such a project? That's another problem. Would it be an Independent or a brand such as Matrix, Slitherine, ect. that would pick up the idea and run with it? That's anyone's guess... Timing wise: By the time a game has been written, programed and marketed about today's events it would be much about history, if that's what you are concerned about.

Take note: That since when the movie camera was invented movies where shown while a war or wars were still happening. Add to that: books that were printed and released (that contained all kinds of subject matter) about a war that was still being fought. Cable news can bring the current war to your living room at the touch of a button with all the latest of the latest on combatants, complete with commentators of every stripe.

My view is: There is a lot happening in the ME that could make for interesting war game.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 6:28:43 AM

aaatoysandmore

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any else checkout infowars.com?

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 11:06:41 AM

wings7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

any else checkout infowars.com?

More "Conspiracy Theorist" self aggrandizement rubbish!

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 11:49:42 AM

operating

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Yes, checked it out! Enjoy sites that are have more of a historical theme about war, how they came to be, the war itself and aftermath, much like the results of world wars or regional wars such as the Franco-Prussian War, ect...

PS: There is one segment of that site (World Wars) that I found interesting.

< Message edited by operating -- 10/11/2015 1:36:59 PM >

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 9:13:58 PM

KISSMEUFOOL!

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quote:

any else checkout infowars.com?

Yes, many important facts there.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 11:10:01 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

any else checkout infowars.com?

More "Conspiracy Theorist" self aggrandizement rubbish!

Yep.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/11/2015 11:54:12 PM

operating

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Have a nice day

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 12:48:35 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

Perhaps Matrix will produce a game centered around this Syrian Civil War? There's all kinds of scenarios that could be included. Strategy yes, tactics would have to be a strong point of the game, fighting without air support, stealth, movement, a seemingly endless array of options could be included within the game.

This could be a very interesting game, provided that the right balance is struck between the political, military, supply, training, recruitment, funding and other integral issues. It would be very challenging to make a balanced scenario because of the plethora of 'players'.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 1:13:56 AM

Jagdtiger14

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WWIII?...or the end of NATO?

USS Theodore Roosevelt has left the Syrian theater...to be replaced by a Chinese carrier and other Chinese naval assets. Usually when there are American interests at stake, the US President sends in a carrier task force (ie...Straits of Taiwan). Does the US suddenly think the Middle East with its oil, Israel, and unstable nations is no longer of interest?

1. The US President assures the Russian dictator that he will have more flexibility after the election since he can not run for re-election.

2. US troops are withdrawn from Iraq...a Sunni radical group (ISIS) fills the vacuum.

3. The US declares red lines that can not be crossed (chemical weapons) in Syria, those lines are immediately crossed anyway.

4. The US declares ISIS "junior varsity" (ie...unimportant) as it spreads through out two countries. The US response in combating this threat is extremely weak.

5. Russia tests western resolve (Ukraine and territorial flybys of many NATO members), then does the same in Syria...leading to an ever increasing force in Syria.

6. Can we call China...Russia's ally? Chinese naval units make their way through the Suez and appear off the coast of Syria. At the same time the US removes its carrier group from the area.

7. NATO member Turkey has intense invasions of its airspace (Russian aircraft radar lock for minutes, and Turkish anti-air systems paint the Russian aircraft).

Did I leave anything out?

I'm not saying anything will go nuclear, and I even think a conventional WWIII is unlikely, but I do think the NATO alliance will be tested soon. If Turkey defends its airspace and shoots down a Russian and/or Chinese aircraft, and Russia/China decide to punish Turkey, will NATO come to Turkey's side? NATO will be over if the US does not support a NATO member. Can NATO keep going without the US taking an active (much less a leadership) role?...what other counties could possibly be counted on to make a difference? Who would take on a Russia and China alliance? If NATO crumbles, Russia can take back the Baltics, all of Ukraine, Belarus, Moldavia...and other than words, what will anyone do about it? No one will risk nuclear war. Other than the US no one can do anything and the US is withdrawing. The parties interested in seeing NATO dissolve have about 15 months to make this happen.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 1:28:28 AM

Ranger33

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I'll be honest, if Russia wants to take back some of it's former territories, and get involved in some good ol' ME quagmire action, I don't think it's worth risking WW3 to stop them.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 1:43:24 AM

operating

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This might sound crazy: A war game that depends on the day to day events of an actual war, such as the Syrian Civil War (Capt. Harlock got me to thinking about this). I'm trying to get my head around it, or if it is even possible to accomplish. It certainly would be different. Just kicking around a story line, or angles to approach a game on the ME.

Can imagine what the Diplomatic window would look like in a normally developed ME game of current events, "talk about being complex!", in a way I think it would be half the fun...

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 2:01:01 AM

Jagdtiger14

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Ranger33: Why would it have to be a quagmire for Russia? Those countries have large Russian populations. As for Turkey, Russia could come on the side of the Kurds to establish a Kurdish home nation. Notice the unrest in Turkey.

Who would make it a quagmire?...the native non-Russian populations? The US? Any other NATO or non-NATO nation(s)?

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 2:51:33 AM

Matt R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

any else checkout infowars.com?

Please don't. Not if you value your sanity.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 3:22:48 AM

operating

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quote:

As for Turkey, Russia could come on the side of the Kurds to establish a Kurdish home nation

That is one heck of a theory you got there!

I don't think it would be as simple as you put it, none-the-less something to think about..

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 5:35:06 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

This might sound crazy: A war game that depends on the day to day events of an actual war, such as the Syrian Civil War (Capt. Harlock got me to thinking about this). I'm trying to get my head around it, or if it is even possible to accomplish. It certainly would be different. Just kicking around a story line, or angles to approach a game on the ME.

Can imagine what the Diplomatic window would look like in a normally developed ME game of current events, "talk about being complex!", in a way I think it would be half the fun...

It's kind of been done before, operating. The Call of Duty: Modern Warfare franchise is built on this premise. Same with the Operation: Flashpoint series that used the political landscape of the time to build on these themes. But if you're making an argument for an interesting geopolitical + strategy game, that would also be interesting. I think the diplomatic / scheming / political maneuvering aspect of the game would be difficult to hard code. Witness the somewhat ham-fisted diplomacy efforts in some of the best selling "strategy 3X" games out there.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 5:50:53 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Ranger33: Why would it have to be a quagmire for Russia? Those countries have large Russian populations. As for Turkey, Russia could come on the side of the Kurds to establish a Kurdish home nation. Notice the unrest in Turkey.

Who would make it a quagmire?...the native non-Russian populations? The US? Any other NATO or non-NATO nation(s)?

What could make the Syrian conflict a quagmire for the Russians? Easy. The broad international body of sympathetic sunni arabs could redouble their efforts against the new Syrian occupiers. The Gulf States' petrodollars-previously perturbed about Assad's horrific actions against the sunni muslim Syrian population can now be aghast and righteously horrified and angered that the Russians are now involved. Not only are the Russians killing Syrian sunni muslim civilians, but they are also propping up Assad who has made the battle lines very clear and very sectarian.

So, the Russians will be relying on an amphibious operation to supply their expanding troop population in Syria. Unlike the "Stans", Georgia and Ukraine, they will not have unfettered land access to their neighbors. Russia doesn't do this sort of thing very well-at least they've not had much experience with it in the past 100 years.

While they're still trying to consolidate their gains in Crimea and E. Ukraine, they're engaging in another medium-sized war that promises to suck as much into the vortex as Russia wants to allow in. Their economy is in shambles and not likely to improve much for another two years or so. They haven't publicly had to deal with the public humiliation of ISIS capturing and brutally executing their fighters. They are over-reliant on questionable allies (the SA has been decimated in four years of fighting) and they are headstrong about techniques that may work on forcing the Fulda gap or subverting Georgia / Crimea / E. Ukraine, but will have little value in the Middle East.

You think Turkey will stand idly by while the FSA gets slaughtered and Russian airplanes overfly its airspace with impunity? If a handful of FSA TOW ATGMs can ruin a Syrian Army armored battalion in a day, think what Turkey could do to stop Russian reinforcements if it *really* wanted to do so.

Russia wants to acknowledge a new Turkish homeland for the Kurds? Does Russia have enough troops on hand to stem a full-throated Turkish armored offensive to capture that airfield and port facility? Because that's what a populist avowed islamist neighbor might just do. A handful of Chinese military advisors, handful of Russian troops and measly local defensive forces wouldn't stand a chance.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 10/12/2015 7:17:59 PM >

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 6:24:38 PM

Chickenboy

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If we really wanted to get twisted and byzantine, a punitive Turkish offensive would actually give NATO a breather. The defense organization only is required to come to the aid of fellow countries that are on the defensive or attacked by non-treaty belligerents. Apart from condemning the attack in the UN, putting on our "angry trousers" and wagging our finger (very sternly

mind you!), we wouldn't be required to do a thing about it by our treaty obligations.

A Turkish offensive that deposed Assad, stopped the genocidal attacks on the Syrian sunni population, bloodied the nose of the Russian adventurists and sent China "back to its side of the globe" could be welcomed by many in the region.

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 6:54:25 PM

operating

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Here's a news story that just hit the web: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-happens-if-russia-decides-to-go-into-iraq-2015-10

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 7:30:04 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

Russia wants to acknowledge a new Turkish homeland for the Kurds? Does Russia have enough troops on hand to stem a full-throated Turkish armored offensive to capture that airfield and port facility? Because that's what a populist avowed islamist neighbor might just do. A handful of Chinese military advisors, handful of Russian troops and measly local defensive forces wouldn't stand a chance.

That could get very messy, very fast. Russia does not have a direct border with Turkey, but it would not be difficult to land an amphibious force on Turkey's Black Sea coast. (Russia might even decide to go through the relatively short distance from their vassal state in Georgia.) And that would invoke NATO's protection clause. All in all, I think Russia will be wise enough not to recognize a Kurdish homeland.

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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RE: Syria Civil War II - 10/12/2015 7:44:12 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
it would not be difficult to land an amphibious force on Turkey's Black Sea coast. (Russia might even decide to go through the relatively short distance from their vassal state in Georgia.) And that would invoke NATO's protection clause. All in all, I think Russia will be wise enough not to recognize a Kurdish homeland.

Force the Dardanelles? What could go wrong?

I don't think the Russians have the military experience with amphibious landings to assume a successful amphibious landing on Turkey's Black Sea coast. It would take them months to spool up such a force and it would very likely result in failure. It would be very difficult for them to do it spontaneously, without detection in the build up. Also, Turkey has a pretty functional navy. Certainly capable enough to fend off the Soviet...erm...Russian Black Sea fleet.

Unpracticed, unrehearsed, conscript-heavy, "unblooded" amphibious landings in the face of an uninhibited enemy fleet? That's got disaster written all over it.

I don't think the Georgians would think much of Russian tanks running through Tbilisi. Again. The Georgians might just "discover" a stash of 500 TOWs they didn't know they had. Maybe some Turkish military "advisors" could show them how to use them?

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