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RE: Another WWII Game - 5/25/2015 9:03:13 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sure send it to me too. I will send you my email in a PM. :)

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 31
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/25/2015 1:07:56 PM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Bombur mentioned that you were very experienced with the editor.

Since I have not done any programming in my life, I would suggest you not look too closely at my attempt to write events. The sight of my code would probably age you ten years.

< Message edited by icym -- 5/27/2015 5:09:47 AM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 32
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/25/2015 2:48:33 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I have logged many hours coding for ATG, and know alot of the kinks, cracks and dubious places of the Editor. There are also places I do not know alot about... Always looking for people who can compliment my lack of understanding of those areas.

I have a background of getting to know computers at a very early age. Back when the original movable computers became sold. Back then it was more of a suitcase, than a lap top. I would rather not sit with that on my lap. I am also from before the time of HDdrives. I did some of my earliest programming in Basic. Back when DOS was king and windows was something you looked out of. Since then I have done alot of programming, but like alot of others I am self taught.

Don´t worry about the looks of your code to start with, efficiency is nice, getting the code to do what you want it is better.

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 33
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/27/2015 12:54:12 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I looked at the scenario and I would like to make some questions/suggestions....
1-What is the purpose of aircraft cargo? Why you don´t simply transfer your aircraft across the oceans by using the transfer button?
2-What do you think about modifying the map in order to allow real (as opposed to abstracted) ASW opperations (including the use of ASW aircraft and carriers). it would spare you some code and allow a more challenging naval game.
3-Why did you take out Vichy France of the game? With France playing the allies, it´s possible the war in North Africa and the Med will be too easy for the allies

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 34
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/27/2015 4:09:29 AM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Bombur,

Thank you for your suggestions. All valid points.

Please keep in mind that this is my first attempt at a scenario, so if some dumb ideas or misunderstandings of the game mechanics have crept in, I am prepared to take the flak.

The aircraft cargo idea had its origin in the way I set up Murmansk convoys to operate. I figured that if the US in particular was going to be able to ship land units to Russia, why not use the same mechanism to ship air units. I believe there was some historical precedent for that. The way this shipping works is that when the air cargo arrives in Russia it can be converted to Russian air units with Russian people. There are other possible uses too, for example should the Italians enjoy particular naval success in the Med, Britain has the option of getting air units into Egypt the long way, around Africa and through Suez. It is not a big thing for me though and if players don't like it, I can take it out or make it an optional rule.

The ASW idea came about simply because I disliked the fact that the USA could send oil to Britain and Germany couldn't do anything about it (please correct me if I am wrong that resources can't be intercepted). ASW is simple to use and is biased to somewhat favour the German player. It was designed purely to allow overseas oil shipments from the US to be contested using only submarines (Axis) and destroyers (Allies). Logically, raw shipments should be affected as well but it took so long to get the damned event to work properly I wasn't enthusiastic about fiddling with it any further. The mechanism has no impact on all other Atlantic warfare which operates normally. I know it ties up some German subs, but it ties up Allied destroyers as well. Once again I rely on feedback. If this idea is unpopular I can remove it.

The Vichy question has particular merit. Frankly, it is so long since I set that up I have forgotten why I did it. I agree it would make more sense to have Vichy in the game and I think I should change that. From solo play testing, just as you predicted, the North African war probably favours the Allies. What is best for the French colonies? Randomly set them up to be Vichy or possibly Free French at the start of the game? Suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks again for your feedback Bombur.


Ernie,

Ernie raised a number of valid points in a PM. In particular he agreed with Bombur in noting my tendency to over-complicate things, necessitating special "house rules" to deal with the exceptions that result. I intend to take a big stick to most of these situations and batter them into complying with straight forward play wherever I can. Ernie has offered to take a look at one problematic early game situation and I must thank him for that.



< Message edited by icym -- 5/27/2015 5:20:05 AM >

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 35
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/28/2015 12:26:00 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Thank you for your suggestions. All valid points.

Please keep in mind that this is my first attempt at a scenario, so if some dumb ideas or misunderstandings of the game mechanics have crept in, I am prepared to take the flak.


-There nothing dumb about the ideas you had, I am actually impressed by the way you developed the ability to simulate some events

quote:


The aircraft cargo idea had its origin in the way I set up Murmansk convoys to operate. I figured that if the US in particular was going to be able to ship land units to Russia, why not use the same mechanism to ship air units. I believe there was some historical precedent for that. The way this shipping works is that when the air cargo arrives in Russia it can be converted to Russian air units with Russian people. There are other possible uses too, for example should the Italians enjoy particular naval success in the Med, Britain has the option of getting air units into Egypt the long way, around Africa and through Suez. It is not a big thing for me though and if players don't like it, I can take it out or make it an optional rule.


-I understand, packing aircrafts in a ship, in order to send them to other locations is a great idea, but it also can be made by naval transfer. The trouble I see with this particular feature is that, if you want to create more aircraft categories, or even custom aircraft (I think your scenario is worth the effort to build more historical equipment), you should also create more types of cargo aircraft (correct me if I´m wrong)

quote:


The ASW idea came about simply because I disliked the fact that the USA could send oil to Britain and Germany couldn't do anything about it (please correct me if I am wrong that resources can't be intercepted). ASW is simple to use and is biased to somewhat favour the German player. It was designed purely to allow overseas oil shipments from the US to be contested using only submarines (Axis) and destroyers (Allies). Logically, raw shipments should be affected as well but it took so long to get the damned event to work properly I wasn't enthusiastic about fiddling with it any further. The mechanism has no impact on all other Atlantic warfare which operates normally. I know it ties up some German subs, but it ties up Allied destroyers as well. Once again I rely on feedback. If this idea is unpopular I can remove it.


-Excellent idea, I wasn´t able to understand it...interdicting oil and raw materials is not possible in ATG. I must say that we (ernie and me) simply gave up any attempt to develop a fix for this limitation in our GD1938 scenario.


quote:


The Vichy question has particular merit. Frankly, it is so long since I set that up I have forgotten why I did it. I agree it would make more sense to have Vichy in the game and I think I should change that. From solo play testing, just as you predicted, the North African war probably favours the Allies. What is best for the French colonies? Randomly set them up to be Vichy or possibly Free French at the start of the game? Suggestions are welcomed.


I would set Vichy French to be a neutral regime, with control over France and the colonies. If the allies DOW Vichy, it joins minor axis (80%), or capitulates, thus joining France (which would exist only as an embassy). If the Axis DOW Vichy French, the opposite happens (80% chances of joining Free france and 20% chances of joining minor axis)




(in reply to icym)
Post #: 36
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/28/2015 12:26:54 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Btw, icym, would you like to try a playtest match?

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 37
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/28/2015 3:06:35 AM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I am pleased to have clarified the intention of the oil interdiction process.

You are right about the shipping aircraft limitations. The air shipping action cards were the very first ones I created, well over a year ago now. As written, the events would not cope with different aircraft types. My coding has hopefully improved a bit since those days, but shipping was always going to be a minor part of the game, and I doubt it would be worth rewriting it to cope with multiple historical aircraft types, even if I could do it.

I don't think it does much harm if left in for now (apart from action card and event clutter) even though it has limited usefulness. If in the process of development more SFTs are introduced, I will take it out.

Your suggestions re Vichy are good. I also had some feedback from Ernie which was along similar lines.

Currently I have a moderately long to-do list I am working on (I am kind of slow at this stuff). On the other hand the only way to find flaws is to play it, which means a playtest.

If you are willing to give it a try, understanding that 1) The game may fall over in some unanticipated way or 2) - my biggest fear - the whole thing is horribly unbalanced, I am willing to try a playtest. Thank you for offering to participate.

I am currently working on some improvements and also adding Vichy. I will advise when the next version is available.


< Message edited by icym -- 5/31/2015 12:34:36 AM >

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 38
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/28/2015 11:09:48 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hi, icym:

Since we already have a shared Dropbox folder, we could use it to send both upgrades to the scenario and saved turns.

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 39
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/29/2015 1:30:53 AM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Yes, Dropbox would make it easy.

Currently the Scenario is with Ernie who has kindly offered to take a look at implementing Vichy France.

Since he has already been very helpful, would you object to him joining the playtest, if he is interested in doing so?

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 40
RE: Another WWII Game - 5/29/2015 1:41:17 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Of course ernie is welcomed. He is a longtime partner in scenario development and wargaming.

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 41
RE: Another WWII Game - 6/21/2015 6:21:56 AM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Update:

Progress is slowly but steadily being made on this scenario.

In what was already a quite large and unit-heavy game, playability has been improved by eliminating many of the “house rules” that were present earlier. The largely redundant “air cargo” ability (which allowed cargo or convoy ships to transport some types of aircraft overseas) has been made an optional rule that is turned off by default.

The biggest change is the game begins with Vichy in place (previously all of France was German and the French colonies were Free French). This should address the game balance issues arising from an overpowered Allied presence in North Africa.

This implementation of Vichy adds not just balance, but hopefully interest as well. To achieve this, events and a few action cards give both the Allies and Axis a number of options. The Scenario Brief provides full information.

Vichy is initially set up as a separate Regime. Its status is “sleeping” so it has no production or movement, but it is allied with the Axis, so Axis units may move into its territory to augment its defences if required.

The four Vichy colonies of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Lebanon/Syria operate separately, allowing the Allies to conduct operations against them and Corsica individually.

Germany has the option - which it can play at any time - of disbanding Vichy. Germany also has an action card that allows it to try and capture the French fleet.

If Germany does not disband Vichy France, the allies can cause its demise by a D-Day style invasion. If sufficient allied forces land in France, Vichy France will collapse. Following the invasion, the Allied player has the option, via action card, to return all recaptured French territory to French control.

If no problems arise in solo play testing I will post a revised scenario file on Dropbox in the near future. The new action cards will require graphics but as no other graphics have been added at this stage, I will initially restrict the update to just the scenario file. The new version will be Beta05.


< Message edited by icym -- 6/21/2015 9:20:37 PM >

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 42
RE: Another WWII Game - 6/23/2015 1:03:00 PM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I think it's good to go. Only needed to get to Beta04.

Dropbox has been updated with the latest file.

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 43
RE: Another WWII Game - 7/17/2015 6:02:24 PM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Update:

Currently two playtests of Beta04 are underway. In both games I am playing the western allies plus Russia and my opponents (who are both seasoned players) are playing the Axis.

I am pleased to say no game-stopping bugs have been discovered, but my opponents have found a few errors and have contributed valuable suggestions that would improve both the game and the play balance.

All suggestions are being recorded and they will be addressed once play testing is done.

I will advise when an updated version becomes available.




(in reply to icym)
Post #: 44
RE: Another WWII Game - 8/19/2015 8:54:46 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Just wanted to thank Icym for a well played game. I came close to Moscow, but in the end, the winter got me :P

Honestly this is a great mod, you guys are in for a treat once it becomes available.

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 45
RE: Another WWII Game - 8/20/2015 12:00:28 AM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		And thank you Ernie for a tough, hard-fought contest. You taught me quite a lot.

This was one of the first opportunities to play the scenario competitively and it behaved pretty well.

I must thank my opponents (Bombur and Ernie, in two separate games) for making excellent suggestions during play. They will help make the game an even better experience.

Implementing fixes and improvements is currently underway and this will take quite a while.

For anyone following this thread, work is done on this project every day, so it is not stagnating.

Playing confirmed that this is a big game, with a playing time (and a development time) to match.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 46
RE: Another WWII Game - 9/17/2015 6:56:10 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Any room for another tester on this mod ? I've just freed up from one of my other games.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 47
RE: Another WWII Game - 9/19/2015 11:50:26 PM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Additional testers are always welcome.

At present the game is temporarily on hold. We are moving house this weekend and have family coming to stay at the new place next week for a reunion and birthday party. The new house does not have a phone/internet connection yet, that should be done early next week. I am about to disconnect the PC from the old house and move it to the new one, so I'll be off air for a few days.

Good news is over 40 improvements and a few known bugs have been attended to in the existing scenario. There still a couple of items I want to change, including increasing the movement allowance of land units. I'll do that whenever I can fit it in. I also have a commitment to Ernie I must prioritize.

By early October my schedule should be cleared and that would be a good time to start a new game.

Sorry to put you off for the moment but I will post here when the revised edition is ready and hopefully you will have some free time.

Ian.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 48
RE: Another WWII Game - 10/4/2015 4:59:32 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		On page 27 of the manual, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph reads

quote:

To lay a naval minefield, move a unit containing 5 or minelayers to a sea hex. You will only be allowed to lay naval mines in a sea hex that is completely surrounded by other sea hexes.


It looks like the word "more" is missing after "5 or".

Chuck

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 49
RE: Another WWII Game - 10/5/2015 1:48:43 AM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Whoops, thanks for noticing. I have corrected it.

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 50
RE: Another WWII Game - 10/5/2015 6:50:37 AM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		This is a beautiful manual! Few professional games do as well.

Chuck

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 51
RE: Another WWII Game - 10/14/2015 3:20:46 AM   
E6Jarhead

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/1/2015
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline 		WOW......I'm just getting into the modding (OK I've been trying to mod for a couple of years but am to stupid to learn much.)

I would love to take a peek under the hood!

Sounds and looks awesome

_____________________________

Th only reason some people are still alive is because it is illegal to kill them!

(in reply to icym)
Post #: 52
RE: Another WWII Game - 10/20/2015 8:00:29 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline 		What a mod - WOW. This is amazing. How far are you by now?

(in reply to E6Jarhead)
Post #: 53
RE: Another WWII Game - 10/20/2015 10:01:34 PM   
icym

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		The disruptions from moving house and health and family issues have continued far longer than I anticipated. Apologies to those waiting for a revised version. From this weekend I will finally be "free" once again.

Anyone who wants to take a look can download the scenario from Dropbox (pm me for the link).

Status of current versions on Dropbox:

Triumph Beta01.atzip will install the scenario and associated graphics.

The Triumph Scenario folder on Dropbox contains a newer version of the scenario file "Triumph Beta04" which should be downloaded and used to play the game.

This weekend I will update Dropbox with a new atzip file, which will include Triumph Beta05 and some new graphics. This is the game as it stood in September when progress was temporarily halted.

For players wishing to update from v04 to v05, the new scenario file and graphics will be posted separately along with instructions on where the 14 new graphic files should be placed.

v05 incorporates around 70 changes (not 40 as I stated in an earlier post) and fixes a couple of bugs that were present in the earlier versions.

Although v05 has not been thoroughly tested, as far as I know it is stable and I would recommend its use.

Update: The current version 05 is now available on Dropbox. The Players Guide, updated for v05 is also available.

< Message edited by icym -- 10/25/2015 6:57:31 AM >

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 54
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