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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Worth buying?

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Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 3:09:24 PM

Toby42

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With IV coming out sometime this year, is III worth buying? I had the original ones when they were first released years ago, but haven't touched the updated version!

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 3:28:32 PM

Lobster

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I would wait. Why buy 3 when 4 is supposed to be an improvement? Unless you have money to burn, then yeah, buy it.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 10/31/2015 5:00:28 PM >

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 3:30:13 PM

Toby42

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I thought that they might give III owners a discount when IV comes out? But who knows??

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 3:47:05 PM

Freyr Oakenshield

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Well, if you a true TOAW lover, buy both.

But seriously, it's a difficult one. But we don't really know when TOAW4 comes out. It may be this year, or may be at the start of next year. Who knows... If you buy now, you can immediately start playing it. If not, you will have to wait, who knows how long... With all the patches, TOAW3 is a lot better than the older versions you own, probably with a larger player base for H2H stuff, too.

< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 7/14/2015 4:50:55 PM >

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 3:49:31 PM

Freyr Oakenshield

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Well, if you a true TOAW lover, buy both.

But seriously, it's a difficult one. But we don't really know when TOAW4 comes out. It may be this year, or may be at the start of next year. Who knows... If you buy now, you can immediately start playing it. If not, you will have to wait, who knows how long... With all the patches, TOAW3 is a lot better than the older versions you own, probably with a larger player base for H2H stuff, too.

edit:
Sorry for the double post. Could a moderator delete this one?

< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 7/14/2015 4:50:34 PM >

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 4:09:42 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

But seriously, it's a difficult one. But we don't really know when TOAW4 comes out. It may be this year, or may be at the start of next year. Who knows... If you buy now, you can immediately start playing it.

Amen. The 3.5 patch that is now called TOAW4 was SUPPOSED to be released October 2014.

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/14/2015 9:02:10 PM

Falcon1

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If it was me, I would just play ACOW until TOAWIV comes out.

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/15/2015 1:32:58 PM

solops

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

With IV coming out sometime this year, is III worth buying? I had the original ones when they were first released years ago, but haven't touched the updated version!

I think so. I think it is the premier land-focused wargame, period. TOAW has always been the best of the boardgame style wargames. With the latest patch, It is really a vastly improved game, over the original TOAW3. I am looking forward to TOAW4 and will certainly buy it. I am concerned that the tightly knit TOAW3 fan group, which has kept the game alive and improved it, may overreach in their quest for detail and options, making the TOAW4 too complicated to play.

< Message edited by solops -- 7/15/2015 2:33:02 PM >

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/16/2015 4:04:59 PM

Toby42

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I haven't played since the original(s) came out. Can you zoom the map? And is the AI improved?

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/17/2015 1:55:29 AM

Fred98

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TOAW is famous among wargamers and released in 1998 or so. I did not have it. TOAW 3 was released in June 2006 and I got it at the time.

I installed it but did not like it. The main reason is that it seemed more board-wargame than computer-wargame. More wargame-work than wargame-fun.

With the announcement of TOAW 4, I have decided to re-install TOAW 3. I am thinking of TOAW3 as a demo to TOAW4.

I will report soon.

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/17/2015 1:58:33 AM

Meyer1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

I haven't played since the original(s) came out. Can you zoom the map? And is the AI improved?

I did not play older versions. All I can say about your questions is that there are four zoom levels now, there were only two before?

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RE: Worth buying? - 7/21/2015 4:26:54 PM

Toby42

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If I remember one of the things that I didn't like from the original was that shore batteries sunk ships with ease. Has this been fixed in TOAW III? If it has, I will probably make a buy!

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RE: Worth buying? - 8/7/2015 1:41:18 PM

mavraamides

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Four zoom levels? I tried zoom last night and it only toggled between two. This was after applying the patch. Is there some trick other than clicking the zoom button?

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RE: Worth buying? - 8/7/2015 3:08:40 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

Four zoom levels? I tried zoom last night and it only toggled between two. This was after applying the patch. Is there some trick other than clicking the zoom button?

In the "Options" pulldown select "Map View". There are four 2D and two 3D options. You can also change zoom via the mouse wheel (or mouse side buttons). In fact, from the mouse wheel you can also access a fifth level, "Ultra Tiny".

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RE: Worth buying? - 8/7/2015 3:45:37 PM

mavraamides

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

Four zoom levels? I tried zoom last night and it only toggled between two. This was after applying the patch. Is there some trick other than clicking the zoom button?

In the "Options" pulldown select "Map View". There are four 2D and two 3D options. You can also change zoom via the mouse wheel (or mouse side buttons). In fact, from the mouse wheel you can also access a fifth level, "Ultra Tiny".

Thanks! Awesome. Can't wait to go home and try.

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RE: Worth buying? - 10/24/2015 5:55:35 PM

henri51

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I had not played TOAW III for years.I had a downloaded installation on a CD, which is fortunate since I could not find my game on the matrix site - I initially thought it would be easier to re-download it, but when I couldn't find my download, I decided to reinstall from the CD, half-expecting it not to work....

I reinstalled it and the latest patch (only), and it works fine and it seems greatly improved. Just the graphics improvements alone make it worth trying out.There are some Youtube videos with the latest graphics, if you want to get an idea. I think TOAW III is a bit expensive considering that it is an old game. Okay, I have paid more than that for some games that I did not play for more than an hour or two, so I guess it depends on how rich you are. If you are not tight for money, it is probably worth it.

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RE: Worth buying? - 10/24/2015 10:56:26 PM

lion_of_judah

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Yes!!!

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RE: Worth buying? - 10/31/2015 2:51:10 PM

towerbooks3192

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Not to hijack the post but I am really a wargame noob and although I have a handful (Decisive campaigns series, War in the east/west +DLCs, Panzer Corps+DLC, Unity of Command, Hearts of Iron 3, Steel Panthers WW2, StratCom 2 WW1 and WW2) but I never seem to know where to truly begin wargaming and call a game one game that I really love. Is this a good game to get? Plus are there any estimates on the release date and price of the 4th game? I will set aside some cash for it and the new decisive campaigns since the big ticket items off my wishlist (War in the East/West) are already taken care of. How is the replayability for the game?

I am still trying to get my head around maneuvering instead of a battle of attrition since I am used to more attrition-based games and I am currently reading the art of maneuver by Robert Leonhard. I hope this is a good game to practice some maneuvering.

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RE: Worth buying? - 10/31/2015 3:58:25 PM

Lobster

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TOAW has many different scales so you can experience a broad range of possibilities. Of course much depends on how well the scenario designer researched the scenario and how well they manipulated the game to make a scenario reasonably playable. Many didn't bother with the AI and made scenarios just for pbem. Because of the large variety of scenarios TOAW would be a good game for someone getting into war gaming. You can use the basic rules or the advanced rules. Throw in the large variety of scenarios from small and simple to huge and complex and you can tailor your experience more than you can in most war games. The only sticking point would be single player or pbem. Smaller scenarios tend to be more likely to be made for single player.

It's too bad Matrix doesn't make a demo for TOAW. It could benefit greatly by that. Having said that, you could also try out John Tiller's games at his web store. The scale is set so they are in no way as versatile as TOAW but it's a fun go for new war gamers especially since there are various demos and a very large variety. There is also a tactical game of his here at Matrix. Again, not nearly as versatile as TOAW but also fun to play. The important thing to remember about war games is not to sink more than 40USD into a game that has no demo. I've done that twice and both times it was a HUGE mistake. I thought buying games that had respected names attached to them would be a good buy. Boy was I wrong. Total of $150 down the crapper. No demo + over $40 = no buy.

BTW, a Smolensk TOAW scenario or game would be a good one for maneuver.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 10/31/2015 5:10:38 PM >

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RE: Worth buying? - 10/31/2015 4:45:25 PM

towerbooks3192

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

TOAW has many different scales so you can experience a broad range of possibilities. Of course much depends on how well the scenario designer researched the scenario and how well they manipulated the game to make a scenario reasonably playable. Many didn't bother with the AI and made scenarios just for pbem. Because of the large variety of scenarios TOAW would be a good game for someone getting into war gaming. You can use the basic rules or the advanced rules. Throw in the large variety of scenarios from small and simple to huge and complex and you can tailor your experience more than you can in most war games. The only sticking point would be single player or pbem. Smaller scenarios tend to be more likely to be made for single player.

It's too bad Matrix doesn't make a demo for TOAW. It could benefit greatly by that. Having said that, you could also try out John Tiller's games at his web store. The scale is set so they are in no way as versatile as TOAW but it's a fun go for new war gamers especially since there are various demos and a very large variety. There is also a tactical game of his here at Matrix. Again, not nearly as versatile as TOAW but also fun to play. The important thing to remember about war games is not to sink more than 40USD into a game that has no demo. I've done that twice and both times it was a HUGE mistake. I thought buying games that had respected names attached to them would be a good buy. Boy was I wrong. Total of $150 down the crapper. No demo + over $40 = no buy.

BTW, a Smolensk TOAW scenario or game would be a good one for maneuver.

Ok. I have no doubt that I want to get TOAW. My only main concern is if I will get it now, the new one will come out in a week or something. Also I hope there isn't any issues with the game and newer machines since it usually have issues with windows 8.1 (managed to resolve the DPI issues). The game will cost me around $45AUD so I would say it isn't as bad as sinking around $200.

Side question: Book recommendations that might aid me in doing maneuvers and tips for dealing with these kind of wargames?

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RE: Worth buying? - 10/31/2015 8:37:59 PM

demyansk

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I would buy this game, Toaw is a good one especially with all the players.

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RE: Worth buying? - 1/18/2016 9:38:47 PM

spec111

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Buy it. We all remember all this long nice stories about compability issues of TOAW between version. So it is nice idea. And definitely buy this http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Gaming-Programmable-Controls-910-002358/dp/B005EWB3AU or any other 10-20+ buttons mouse. It will HUGELY improve game experience in TOAW and any game with such overloaded UI and massive amount of unnecessary clicks.

< Message edited by spec111 -- 1/18/2016 10:39:23 PM >

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RE: Worth buying? - 1/31/2016 5:08:43 PM

DonCzirr

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I'm intending to buy both - TOAW III in the near future and IV later this year.

Is Bob's site (Bob Cross's TOAW Site) still the best / most up to date for quality scenarios ?

There's a ton of links for info on TOAW in these forums (some old and seemingly out of date) - would someone be kind enough to narrow it down to 2 or 3 of the most recently active?

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RE: Worth buying? - 2/1/2016 12:57:49 AM

Meyer1

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DonCzirr: Check the sPzAbt653's page, perhaps the currently most active designer, who also makes most of this scenarios good for solo playing http://www.dizium.net/TOAW

Also, http://forums.gamesquad.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=16 for scenarios, graphic mods and other files, but not very active as of late (you have to register to download the files)

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RE: Worth buying? - 2/1/2016 2:04:36 AM

DonCzirr

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Wow - nice variety in that list.

Can't wait to dive in. I have not touched any TOAW since the original release.

Thanks Meyer !

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RE: Worth buying? - 2/11/2016 6:23:16 PM

DonCzirr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

I had not played TOAW III for years.I had a downloaded installation on a CD, which is fortunate since I could not find my game on the matrix site - I initially thought it would be easier to re-download it, but when I couldn't find my download, I decided to reinstall from the CD, half-expecting it not to work....

I reinstalled it and the latest patch (only), and it works fine and it seems greatly improved. Just the graphics improvements alone make it worth trying out.There are some Youtube videos with the latest graphics, if you want to get an idea. I think TOAW III is a bit expensive considering that it is an old game. Okay, I have paid more than that for some games that I did not play for more than an hour or two, so I guess it depends on how rich you are. If you are not tight for money, it is probably worth it.

I have to agree here.

I bought it earlier this week and ran it once with the original files and then again with the latest patch.

The patched version looks fantastic - I think it's at least comparable to any "modern / recent" war game. (except for the interface which is a bit too tiny for my mature eyes)

I am eager to kick off my campaign as Leader of the Balkan League.

Thanks to those responsible for the improvements that were made !

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RE: Worth buying? - 2/11/2016 10:14:16 PM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

the interface which is a bit too tiny for my mature eyes

That could be due to the larger resolutions of our newer machines. If you hadn't seen it there are some discussions and a few possible solutions in this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3792730&mpage=2&key=

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RE: Worth buying? - 2/12/2016 1:25:52 AM

DonCzirr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

the interface which is a bit too tiny for my mature eyes

That could be due to the larger resolutions of our newer machines. If you hadn't seen it there are some discussions and a few possible solutions in this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3792730&mpage=2&key=

Appreciate that info - but everything else looks so good, I don't want to mess with it.

But you know what ? Taking just a few minutes for investigation, I found that there are Menu items or hotkeys for everything it seems.

So - the conquest of the Balkans will not be put at risk due to my old bleary sight after all ...

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Worth buying?