Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

you read the manual??

quote:

Hi, it is not that hard. Note this surface TF has two factors under movement. 9/4 where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse (day/night comprise the two impulses), assuming that nothing happens to add operation points such as extended combat or refueling. The second number is the cruise speed of the unit. If set to "mission" speed where the TF can move with a home base set as the destination the ship will move 4 plus 4 hexes in one full day-assuming no op points spent during the move. If set to mission speed and then the mission is set to say bombardment the ship will move at cruise speed until it gets within range of the target and then run full speed into and out of the target hex for a potential maximum of 18 total hexes. (If no operation points are expended). If set to cruise speed the ship will always move at cruise speed and if set to full speed, the ships will always move at full tilt until out of fuel. For almost all purposes, you want to set your TFs at mission speed. Many players think that a ship that is heavily damaged and limping home should be set to cruise speed as this lessens the chance of it sinking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Ok, so, I had read the manual of course. There are some word choices in the manual, sometimes, it says phase, sometimes it says pulse, and, sometimes it says turn.

It rarely says "turn". In almost all instances it uses "phase/pulse" which for most purposes are interchangeable but not always. Context is all important. As is reading the core sections where definitions are provided as opposed to reading sections which attempt to demonstrate conclusions.

Those would seem to not be the same thing, I would expect phase and pulse to potentially be the same things, but not day. Perhaps I did not pay enough attention to the details

Understanding the details is indispensable but only for mastering the principle employed as a superficial reading gets lost in the forest.

though as far as what exactly the phase was referring to vs a turn, they may have been referring to different measurements.

So, 2.5.3 says "a green circle will appear around the task force indicating the maximum distance the task force will be able to travel at cruising speed during that turn".

Classic example of the repeated mistake you make in this and in your other threads. Relying on a section which illustrates a conclusion to explain your specific situation but the manual cannot anticipate what the specific circumstances which apply to your example. Instead the correct thing is to read the relevant core section which defines the relevant factors. In this case that is s.6.2.3 of the manual. Doing so shows that the manual is not misleading or incorrect in employing the term "turn" in s.2.5.3 because 95%+ of players are interested in the turn results, not the 12 hour phase. You might find it easier to rely on s.2.5.3 rather than mastering the other relevant and more important sections but that will not result in mastering the game.

So, the key word here is turn. I am looking to that as a guide as far as how far I can move in a day. However, for a TF that on the TF info display says move for m (mission) = 4, the green is 4 hexes, which apparently could be a phase, not a turn? This is what I am trying to figure out. It is not lining up with what the manual says. Being new, I am not sure therefore what I should be assuming, so, I decided to ask. Perhaps, that circle refers to phase, not turn? Or, maybe your section 6.2.5 comes into play for specific mission types and that modifies things. See the next paragraph as far as why I am thinking that.

So, I am looking at a TF that last turn, was at Lae (99/126), and, this turn made it to 103,123. That means it moved 6 hexes. If I right click it to see the move circles, even the yellow does not reach LAE. The TF is of type Transport, and, had completed it's mission. Settings are retirement allowed, and do not react to enemy, mission speed. Threat tolerance is normal. There are no enemy task forces anywhere near it that I can see at least. Moves (m/c) says 4/3 on the task force information screen. So, it moved more than 4. So, perhaps the idea here is it moved at flank or full speed for some reason, and, rounding took over and it made 6 hexes instead of 5?

Again a classic example which people who create their "tests" and then rely on the "results" just never grasp. Firstly it is a fool's errand to try to reverse engineer this game but there are many who think they can. They inevitably draw the wrong conclusions. Secondly and this is the fundamental reason why almost all these "tests" are just vanity tests with no validity, is that they fail to account for all the variables. There are numerous variables which you have not quarantineed. A properly structured test would not result in your statement "So perhaps the idea is it moved at flank or full speed for some reasons, and, rounding took over and it made 6 hexes instead of 5?". A properly structured test would provide a specific answer without allowing any uncertainty and suppositions. In any case what was the point of attempting to make a flawed test when the answer is already provided in the manual in s.6.2.3. Considering that I had already directed you to that section of the manual (notwithstanding the typo as the section header I provided makes it quite clear what was the referral) and the test was made after my referral that is a pretty arrogant attitude of yours that what I say (and what the manual writer wrote) is not trustworthy and only you can discover the truth from your vanity tests which prove nothing. There are many who answer questions on this forum whose answers are not reliable. I am not one of those.

So, reading that section, I don't see anything related to transport TFs. Maybe you meant 6.2.3, or, perhaps my manual is different as "Task Force Speed" is 6.2.3 in my pdf.

Quite obviously there was a typo. Considering that I wrote both "6.2.5", and "Task Force Speed" in order to realise that a typo had occurred and how to reconcile the main manual section to read, one would have to choose between a single digit typo in the number reference or 14 alpha typos in the header reference. A pedant might be unable to discriminate between the two potential typos.

This section talks about a maximum task force speed, which I do not see that I can recognize on the task force information screen.

Well look again because it is there on the task force information screen. It is provided in hex terms. Again what the overwhelming majority of players would find most helpful.

However, on the list all task forces screen, I can see it has a "max speed" of 15. So, using the formula there, 15 * 12 / 40 = 4.5 hexes for max speed, which appears to be per phase according to that section, which would then be 9 hexes per day.

No it does not result in your calculation and the section of the manual which contains the formula you used easily points out your mistake. Other sections of the manual, in particular 6.2.14 "Operation Points", outline why the basic distance movement of s.6.2.3 is not always applied.

This lines up with the yellow circle which it 5 hexes if it's per turn. But, the circles doc in 2.5.3 say they are for the turn. Turn = day. I just don't get what I am missing.

So, I read your forum post, which started at least as an endurance question. So, your post says mission speed can be variable. And it references 6.2.5, which does not mention anything about transport TFs.

My conclusion is perhaps there are other "tactical considerations" that caused my retiring transport TF to move at full speed this past turn. So, perhaps, 6.2.5 is just an idea of the sorts of things, not an all inclusive list. Or, the doc is just out of date and I'd have to search all the update docs. I believe the movement circles do refer to a days movement. I guess I was just confused by how far task forces seem to move, at least at times. I guess 6.2.3 means turn not phase then? Or, perhaps phase means "order phase", i.e. day also. Not movement phase. Phase is not very descriptive.

Firstly, "phase" is 100% the correct term. It is fully detailed in s.3.0 of the manual.

Secondly there is no doubt that s.6.2.3 means per phase; the words used are quite simple and are to accorded their ordinary everyday meaning. On what basis, other than your unwillingness to accept you consistently make invalid tests, can you turn the sentence

"This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses" or this phrase

"it will move 3 in both the day and night phases (6 total for the day)"

not to mention the other references in that section which clearly make it to be for both movement pulses which in turn have already been detailed in s.3.0 as still leaving open the possibility that it means per turn. There is nothing confusing here at all.

Thirdly the manual is not out of date on basic design features. It is a crutch always used by those unable to master the game to explain their own failings with the excuse that the manual is out of date.

So confusing. Always the simplest things that confuse me, the complex things rarely do.

That is not a true statement as your continuous failure to read properly all the relevant sections in the manual demonstrate. It might be that AE is too complex for you to understand. There are no short cuts to mastering this game. Many try to find short cuts and they always fail to rise above a superficial knowledge of the game. Step one is to accept that the devs are quite smart and within the constraints they had to operate they closed the circle. Whenever a player thinks the devs made an error step back, put your ego under leash and assume the error lies with the player and that the correct answer has already been provided by the devs either in the manual or in a forum post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Ok, so, I had read the manual of course. There are some word choices in the manual, sometimes, it says phase, sometimes it says pulse, and, sometimes it says turn. Those would seem to not be the same thing, I would expect phase and pulse to potentially be the same things, but not day. Perhaps I did not pay enough attention to the details though as far as what exactly the phase was referring to vs a turn, they may have been referring to different measurements.

So, 2.5.3 says "a green circle will appear around the task force indicating the maximum distance the task force will be able to travel at cruising speed during that turn". So, the key word here is turn. I am looking to that as a guide as far as how far I can move in a day. However, for a TF that on the TF info display says move for m (mission) = 4, the green is 4 hexes, which apparently could be a phase, not a turn? This is what I am trying to figure out. It is not lining up with what the manual says. Being new, I am not sure therefore what I should be assuming, so, I decided to ask. Perhaps, that circle refers to phase, not turn? Or, maybe your section 6.2.5 comes into play for specific mission types and that modifies things. See the next paragraph as far as why I am thinking that.

So, I am looking at a TF that last turn, was at Lae (99/126), and, this turn made it to 103,123. That means it moved 6 hexes. If I right click it to see the move circles, even the yellow does not reach LAE. The TF is of type Transport, and, had completed it's mission. Settings are retirement allowed, and do not react to enemy, mission speed. Threat tolerance is normal. There are no enemy task forces anywhere near it that I can see at least. Moves (m/c) says 4/3 on the task force information screen. So, it moved more than 4. So, perhaps the idea here is it moved at flank or full speed for some reason, and, rounding took over and it made 6 hexes instead of 5? So, reading that section, I don't see anything related to transport TFs. Maybe you meant 6.2.3, or, perhaps my manual is different as "Task Force Speed" is 6.2.3 in my pdf. This section talks about a maximum task force speed, which I do not see that I can recognize on the task force information screen. However, on the list all task forces screen, I can see it has a "max speed" of 15. So, using the formula there, 15 * 12 / 40 = 4.5 hexes for max speed, which appears to be per phase according to that section, which would then be 9 hexes per day. This lines up with the yellow circle which it 5 hexes if it's per turn. But, the circles doc in 2.5.3 say they are for the turn. Turn = day. I just don't get what I am missing.

So, I read your forum post, which started at least as an endurance question. So, your post says mission speed can be variable. And it references 6.2.5, which does not mention anything about transport TFs.

My conclusion is perhaps there are other "tactical considerations" that caused my retiring transport TF to move at full speed this past turn. So, perhaps, 6.2.5 is just an idea of the sorts of things, not an all inclusive list. Or, the doc is just out of date and I'd have to search all the update docs. I believe the movement circles do refer to a days movement. I guess I was just confused by how far task forces seem to move, at least at times. I guess 6.2.3 means turn not phase then? Or, perhaps phase means "order phase", i.e. day also. Not movement phase. Phase is not very descriptive.

So confusing. Always the simplest things that confuse me, the complex things rarely do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Alfred is not affiliated (did I spell that correctly?) with the team that created WitP:AE for as far as I know. He is just a smart guy trying to help people understanding the game mechanics. And yes, he sometimes is a bit harsh...

Being nice is a bit overrated at times anyway

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Mainly because you are 10,000th person that has tried to run 'tests' to make a point that are unable to account for everything under the hood. So it gets tiring after a while to keep repeating the same song over and over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

quote:

Hi, it is not that hard. Note this surface TF has two factors under movement. 9/4 where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse (day/night comprise the two impulses), assuming that nothing happens to add operation points such as extended combat or refueling. The second number is the cruise speed of the unit. If set to "mission" speed where the TF can move with a home base set as the destination the ship will move 4 plus 4 hexes in one full day-assuming no op points spent during the move. If set to mission speed and then the mission is set to say bombardment the ship will move at cruise speed until it gets within range of the target and then run full speed into and out of the target hex for a potential maximum of 18 total hexes. (If no operation points are expended). If set to cruise speed the ship will always move at cruise speed and if set to full speed, the ships will always move at full tilt until out of fuel. For almost all purposes, you want to set your TFs at mission speed. Many players think that a ship that is heavily damaged and limping home should be set to cruise speed as this lessens the chance of it sinking.

I am quite sure I am missing something really basic, however, I don't see it!

So, to test this, I start a new game vs the AI as the Japanese Coral Sea. Task force 1 starts at 110,118 and has an air combat mission. I change the TF to FULL SPEED. According to what you write here, it should move 9 per phase, or, a total of 18 hexes. Its starting destination is 111,140, a long way away. I do nothing in this move, except change this TF to FULL SPEED. It's a 9/9 in the Moves (m/c) section. You wrote "where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse ". So, I expect it will move 18. It moves only to 114,127, or, a distance of 9 total.

I just noticed though, the fuel turns red, perhaps that's my issue here. I keep trying to set up a simple test. So, maybe it cannot move full speed that far due to fuel constraints. So, I do a second turn, maybe I missed this before. I see to 111,109 from the new position, fuel does not go red. I make the move, and, it does indeed go 18 hexes.

So, the answer is you are of course correct, which is not a surprise to me. I clearly did not get all of the factors involved, and, missed the red fuel on my testing.

Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Alfred is not affiliated (did I spell that correctly?) with the team that created WitP:AE for as far as I know. He is just a smart guy trying to help people understanding the game mechanics. And yes, he sometimes is a bit harsh...

Being nice is a bit overrated at times anyway

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

quote:

Hi, it is not that hard. Note this surface TF has two factors under movement. 9/4 where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse (day/night comprise the two impulses), assuming that nothing happens to add operation points such as extended combat or refueling. The second number is the cruise speed of the unit. If set to "mission" speed where the TF can move with a home base set as the destination the ship will move 4 plus 4 hexes in one full day-assuming no op points spent during the move. If set to mission speed and then the mission is set to say bombardment the ship will move at cruise speed until it gets within range of the target and then run full speed into and out of the target hex for a potential maximum of 18 total hexes. (If no operation points are expended). If set to cruise speed the ship will always move at cruise speed and if set to full speed, the ships will always move at full tilt until out of fuel. For almost all purposes, you want to set your TFs at mission speed. Many players think that a ship that is heavily damaged and limping home should be set to cruise speed as this lessens the chance of it sinking.

I am quite sure I am missing something really basic, however, I don't see it!

So, to test this, I start a new game vs the AI as the Japanese Coral Sea. Task force 1 starts at 110,118 and has an air combat mission. I change the TF to FULL SPEED. According to what you write here, it should move 9 per phase, or, a total of 18 hexes. Its starting destination is 111,140, a long way away. I do nothing in this move, except change this TF to FULL SPEED. It's a 9/9 in the Moves (m/c) section. You wrote "where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse ". So, I expect it will move 18. It moves only to 114,127, or, a distance of 9 total.

I just noticed though, the fuel turns red, perhaps that's my issue here. I keep trying to set up a simple test. So, maybe it cannot move full speed that far due to fuel constraints. So, I do a second turn, maybe I missed this before. I see to 111,109 from the new position, fuel does not go red. I make the move, and, it does indeed go 18 hexes.

So, the answer is you are of course correct, which is not a surprise to me. I clearly did not get all of the factors involved, and, missed the red fuel on my testing.

Thanks!

Well, there is a slingshot effect that you can pull off with your TFs. It is a bit unrealistic but we all do it. If you place a TF on full speed and set it to "retirement allowed" and then set the home base for a base that is ahead of your TF, the TF will run out to it's full hex allotment and then return towards that distant base on the back (retirement) leg. This will work for a slow cargo TF as well. That is, if you are heading from Pearl to Noumea and have retirement allowed the ship will move in the day impulse and then retire towards the home port in the evening. So, if you have a fast carrier TF you can slingshot it for a full 18 hexes or so in one turn. (About 850 miles in one day-over 35 MPH). In return, you will burn a lot of fuel and rack up quite a bit of sys and engine damage which any old salt would tell you is fairly accurate for a sustained high speed run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

quote:

Hi, it is not that hard. Note this surface TF has two factors under movement. 9/4 where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse (day/night comprise the two impulses), assuming that nothing happens to add operation points such as extended combat or refueling. The second number is the cruise speed of the unit. If set to "mission" speed where the TF can move with a home base set as the destination the ship will move 4 plus 4 hexes in one full day-assuming no op points spent during the move. If set to mission speed and then the mission is set to say bombardment the ship will move at cruise speed until it gets within range of the target and then run full speed into and out of the target hex for a potential maximum of 18 total hexes. (If no operation points are expended). If set to cruise speed the ship will always move at cruise speed and if set to full speed, the ships will always move at full tilt until out of fuel. For almost all purposes, you want to set your TFs at mission speed. Many players think that a ship that is heavily damaged and limping home should be set to cruise speed as this lessens the chance of it sinking.

I am quite sure I am missing something really basic, however, I don't see it!

So, to test this, I start a new game vs the AI as the Japanese Coral Sea. Task force 1 starts at 110,118 and has an air combat mission. I change the TF to FULL SPEED. According to what you write here, it should move 9 per phase, or, a total of 18 hexes. Its starting destination is 111,140, a long way away. I do nothing in this move, except change this TF to FULL SPEED. It's a 9/9 in the Moves (m/c) section. You wrote "where 9 is the maximum number of hexes the ship can move that turn in one impulse ". So, I expect it will move 18. It moves only to 114,127, or, a distance of 9 total.

I just noticed though, the fuel turns red, perhaps that's my issue here. I keep trying to set up a simple test. So, maybe it cannot move full speed that far due to fuel constraints. So, I do a second turn, maybe I missed this before. I see to 111,109 from the new position, fuel does not go red. I make the move, and, it does indeed go 18 hexes.

So, the answer is you are of course correct, which is not a surprise to me. I clearly did not get all of the factors involved, and, missed the red fuel on my testing.

Thanks!

Well, there is a slingshot effect that you can pull off with your TFs. It is a bit unrealistic but we all do it. If you place a TF on full speed and set it to "retirement allowed" and then set the home base for a base that is ahead of your TF, the TF will run out to it's full hex allotment and then return towards that distant base on the back (retirement) leg. This will work for a slow cargo TF as well. That is, if you are heading from Pearl to Noumea and have retirement allowed the ship will move in the day impulse and then retire towards the home port in the evening. So, if you have a fast carrier TF you can slingshot it for a full 18 hexes or so in one turn. (About 850 miles in one day-over 35 MPH). In return, you will burn a lot of fuel and rack up quite a bit of sys and engine damage which any old salt would tell you is fairly accurate for a sustained high speed run.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would you need to set the home base differently to pull this off? You could just set the destination for a point 18 hexes away, and set it to Full Speed manually, it will still run the full 18 hexes, regardless of where the home base is. Unless you are worried about the TF thinking it wont have enough fuel, and stopping to refuel partway thru the turn.

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ORIGINAL: witpaemail

One thing to keep in mind. The "manual" was written basically for UV. Some of it got changed for WitP. And a little more of it was changed for WitP:AE. The manual was NOT written exclusively for AE. Its just a hand me down. AE was not written by GG or his team. It just has his name on it.

Rule 1 of the manual is: Do NOT assume the manual is correct. Thats what the forums is for: to help rookies (among other things). When in doubt, refer to rule 1.

By all means test it yourself, but as someone said, dont use turn 1 as your test. Posters a lot of times have opinions on how things work that arent always correct. But always remember rule 1.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would you need to set the home base differently to pull this off? You could just set the destination for a point 18 hexes away, and set it to Full Speed manually, it will still run the full 18 hexes, regardless of where the home base is. Unless you are worried about the TF thinking it wont have enough fuel, and stopping to refuel partway thru the turn.

But it doesn't. Set it up and test it out yourself. Just did so with the Guadalcanal scenario. Set a DD to run full speed 20 hexes toward enemy occupied Guadalcanal from Noumea. It ran 10 hexes-its full speed movement allowance. Redirected the same DD to move 10 hexes towards friendly Port Moresby and it ran 20 hexes. Ending with 10 sys and 8 engine damage. Retirement allowed was set for both moves.

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

One thing to keep in mind. The "manual" was written basically for UV. Some of it got changed for WitP. And a little more of it was changed for WitP:AE. The manual was NOT written exclusively for AE. Its just a hand me down. AE was not written by GG or his team. It just has his name on it.

Rule 1 of the manual is: Do NOT assume the manual is correct. Thats what the forums is for: to help rookies (among other things). When in doubt, refer to rule 1.

By all means test it yourself, but as someone said, dont use turn 1 as your test. Posters a lot of times have opinions on how things work that arent always correct. But always remember rule 1.

This is one of the most despicable, totally wrong pieces of "advice" which has ever been given to newbies on this forum.

Newbies and even some forum regulars may not realise that the person who has offered the above "advice" has also been on the forum in the following guises:

Yamato hugger joined 5 Oct 2004 last post 27 Aug 2009 last login 27 Aug 2009 total number posts 5475
CV2 joined 4 Nov 2010 last post 19 Feb 2011 last login 20 Feb 2011 total posts 168
MDDgames joined 6 July 2013 last post 16 Feb 2014 last login 30 April 2014 total posts 90
witpaemail joined 2 March 2015 last post 26 Oct 2015 last login 26 Oct 2015 total posts 50

The first two incarnations are not found in the members list because on 27 August 2009 Erik Rutins sacked him from his role as an AE Beta tester and banned him from the public forums for a minimum period of month (after which he could reapply for reinstatement). The reason for this treatment can be found in this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2220429&mpage=1&key=

Since then Yamato hugger aka CV2 aka MDDgames aka witpaemail has on several occasions not missed an opportunity to belittle the devs.

Let's look at the probative value of the statement "Do NOT assume the manual is correct." The simple meaning of this statement is that there are so many errors in the manual, it cannot be trusted. In fact it goes beyond that because it can only be true if more than 50% of the facts/statements made in the manual are incorrect for if it were to be less than 50% the odds are that a correct answer is more likely than not to be found in the manual. Zero evidence to support such a statement has been adduced by witpaemail.

The published hard copy of the manual has 23 chapters which contain facts/statements on game mechanics and how play proceeds. Within these 23 chapters there are 477 subsections which contain at least one fact/statement on game mechanics and how play proceeds. Almost all of the subsections in fact contain multiple facts/statements. In some instances, where tables are provided in a subsection, several hundred facts are provided. In short the manual has several thousand facts/statements on game mechanics.

For witpaemail's statement to be true, (and for the moment we are leaving out the additional documentation which has subsequently been provided to bring the manual in line with the 7 official game updates which have been released to date), then either a majority of the subsections must each contain a single wrong fact notwithstanding the rest of the facts within that subsection which may number in the several hundreds are correct, or there are several thousand incorrect facts/statements in the manual. You will find that even on the easier test, witpaemail will not identify the 239 subsections which contain a single error within them because they do not exist.

Next consider the advice that the forum is to help rookies. It is an embarrassment to me how common it is to find experienced players providing incorrect answers. The list of regulars whose answers are reliable is small. There are many myths regularly perpetuated on the forum. Even within the same thread it is far too common to find contradictory answers provided by experienced players. How exactly does a newbie determine what is the correct answer when they have been told by witpaemail that the manual is worthless; what exactly is ground zero for the newbie to proceed on their evaluation journey.

What witpaemail is fundamentally stating to newbies is to forget about objective facts and rely instead on the subjective opinions of those often not much more knowledgeable and who quite often have a hidden agenda.

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

One thing to keep in mind. The "manual" was written basically for UV. Some of it got changed for WitP. And a little more of it was changed for WitP:AE. The manual was NOT written exclusively for AE. Its just a hand me down. AE was not written by GG or his team. It just has his name on it.

Rule 1 of the manual is: Do NOT assume the manual is correct. Thats what the forums is for: to help rookies (among other things). When in doubt, refer to rule 1.

By all means test it yourself, but as someone said, dont use turn 1 as your test. Posters a lot of times have opinions on how things work that arent always correct. But always remember rule 1.

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

One thing to keep in mind. The "manual" was written basically for UV. Some of it got changed for WitP. And a little more of it was changed for WitP:AE. The manual was NOT written exclusively for AE. Its just a hand me down. AE was not written by GG or his team. It just has his name on it.

Rule 1 of the manual is: Do NOT assume the manual is correct. Thats what the forums is for: to help rookies (among other things). When in doubt, refer to rule 1.

By all means test it yourself, but as someone said, dont use turn 1 as your test. Posters a lot of times have opinions on how things work that arent always correct. But always remember rule 1.

You mean the months I spent working on the manual for AE didn't happen? We did start with the WitP manual, but it was essentially stripped down to an outline and rewritten. It has the same basic format as the WitP manual, but every bit of the content was either written by the development team, or heavily edited to reflect how things work in AE.

You are right Gary Grigsby had nothing to do with AE, they gave us the code and we had no further contact with 2X3 during development.

The reason the current manual does not reflect the game as it is today is because there have been a lot of improvements since the initial release and the manual has not been updated. The manual was pretty accurate for the initial release of AE.

As for testing with turn 1, that is probably good advice. There is a lot of special code that kicks in on December 7, 1941 that is not active on other game turns. If you want to sandbox something, I suggest using one of the smaller scenarios and data shift the start to the time period you want to test. I used Coral Sea quite a bit as the basis for sandboxing things. It's the smallest scenario, so turns run quickly.

Bill