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Soviet on map artillery - Best use

 
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Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/27/2015 12:06:44 AM   
tex_ka95

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		I am playing the Vistula to Berlin scenario as the Soviets and this is only the second time I have played as the Soviets and the largest scenario as them so far.

My question is....what is the best way to utilize all these on map artillery brigades and divisions? In order to take place in an attack, do they need to be in a stack adjacent to the enemy being attacked or can they be 1-2 hexes away and take part in the attack?

Whole lot of units to move around each turn....I figure I should use them as effectively as possible.

Thanks
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/27/2015 5:29:28 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		They can attack at one hex distance (ie they don't need to be adjacent). So if you sort out your attack stacks, if you can attack from 3 hexes you should be able to use 9 Rifle Corps and (depending on the hex grid etc) 9-12 artillery divisions. For the artillery there is no need to worry about the command structure (as long as all they do is bombard).

This plus Support Unit assignment should generate masses of firepower. The effect will be that the German target takes masses of disruptions before the close combat begins. Disrupted elements can't fight again in that part of the game turn, and even if they recover in the inter-turn portion, pick up fatigue (ie fight less well next turn).

So the application of massive firepower will quickly degrade the German army, even if they happen to hold you off. In this particular scenario they do not have the luxury of pulling units off the line to rest.

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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/27/2015 11:11:33 PM   
tex_ka95

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Loki. I might have to play this scenario again. i'll probably make it to Berlin a lot faster. I'm already on turn 15.

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Post #: 3
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 3:51:22 PM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rodimstev

Hi all,

in 1942 and 1943, in my multiplayer game, i created 6 artillery division 42, 6 break artillery 43 division and 6 Katiouchas division;

i have too several artillery brigades.

I have severals questions: what is the best use for this division?

1.just rest Under army control and support the div/corps attack?
2. just rest under STAVKA control and support div/corps attack?
3.just rest Under Front control and support div/corps attack?
4. Just attack alone to 2 hex?

thanks in advance
Rodimstev


Mostly it should used under army controll to support Breakthrough attacks.
If you controll it with STAVKA/Front Command, you will suffer some penalties (-20% and -10%).
If your army is full, than give the art division the same front in which your breakthrough army is, so you suffer only 10% penaly. That depends on the number of hex, from which you could attack.


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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 4:22:46 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		To piggy back on what Viga is saying...

I typically attach to fronts where they will be supporting....then as I make Corps and the load on the armies reduces, as 4 corps = 16 of 18 command points...so once I get them to 4 corps I attach one of the artillery divisions to that army. So my armies end up looking like 4x infantry corps 1x artillery division.

For shock armies I do 5x corps and 1x artillery BDE

My guards armies are still pretty mixed but eventual plan would be 5x corps 1x artillery BDE for max efficiency.

For tank armies im currently 3x corps and usually an artillery division or artillery BDE....once I get some guard tank armies will shift to 4x corps and artillery will go back to front or be in other armies in that front.

< Message edited by chaos45 -- 10/31/2015 5:23:18 PM >

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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 4:31:51 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		think you are both wrong (in part).

if you use artillery purely at the 2 hex range the command malus doesn't matter. Main reason to link them properly into the command net is for resupply and morale gains

quite a lot of ways to achieve this.

also its good to keep some slots in your main armies clear (after mass corps conversions) for first the eng brigade and later the SU-76s. Both are surprisingly valuable and as brigades quite likely to give you a reserve reaction

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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 4:48:58 PM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Are you sure?
Will they bomb effectiv with no or little penalties?


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Post #: 7
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 7:17:41 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Hmm I will have to look at my detailed combat reports next turn. If they dont suffer the -10% is no reason to ever attach down to armies really

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Post #: 8
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 7:27:13 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Initiative rolls are used in fire combat, so make sure arty units do not suffer from low chance to pass them.
CV modifier is less important, as they have little in terms of CV.

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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 7:35:55 PM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline 		That means in other words, I will find my best initativ leader and give him an artillery army.
So the moral and inf dice are less important and the initativ rolls are important?
The -10% or more penalty is only CV important but not for the fight?


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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 7:41:16 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		one trick is to save your airborne corps, you'll presumably convert most of the late 1941 abn brigades to Gds rifle divisions.

Each can command 4 divisions, so that solves the immediate problems - ie supply and init checks etc for your artillery divisions/brigades. They are usually hooked to rear area MDs so you may be sub-optimal in terms of the wider command chain but it leaves slots in your key fronts for units that really need the command chain.

In turn it gives you 4-5 clusters of on map artillery units that you can redeploy at need to where it matters. More efficient than if they are locked into a given front.

I do a mix, for the fronts I know are going to be my key formations they get a lot of artillery within the command structure - easy to do once corps become the norm. But I also have a more flexible grouping that I shuffle around the map.

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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 8:16:06 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		at current with all the corps conversions im actually finding I have extra space in my armies now anyway finally.

The only thing im still short command space for is my tank corps need 3-4 more tank armies still.

Still have the fronts pretty overloaded in some sectors but all my army chains are good.

Learned one thing i really dont like on the fronts is that when actived 2 of them still control garrison units that you cant get rid of so it take up their command space....one of them has like 10+ command points of junk i cant use attached to it so limits how many armies it can effectively control.

Think when it converts to non-garrison the other units should drop to Stavka control or be transferrable since they will never leave garrison status by the turkish border.

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Post #: 12
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 11:01:30 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		don't forget that both soviet combat formations and armies are short of support elements. So if you fill to command capacity, its inevitable that every formation has a small malus.

Up to mid-43 this is of no concern (you simply have to use all your army CP), by mid-43 running your armies with 2-3 spare CPs is actually quite efficient. Matters particularly for your average formations led by your average leaders.

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Post #: 13
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 10/31/2015 11:36:10 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		okay checked a battle report and it does show a -10% to the artillery divisions for not being part of the army.

Dont know if that only affects CV or firing or what but it shows as a negative in the reports.

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Post #: 14
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 11/1/2015 7:31:56 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

okay checked a battle report and it does show a -10% to the artillery divisions for not being part of the army.

Dont know if that only affects CV or firing or what but it shows as a negative in the reports.


aye, but if I recall, as such loss of cv is unimportant when they are used in the distant fire mode, you don't add the cv as such but the guns.

so yes, you may get marginally more effect if they are in the same army etc (though I'm not sure of this) but you are losing quite a lot (suppport units/command points/flexibility) to acquire this marginal gain

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RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 11/2/2015 10:10:16 AM   
IvanShuski

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 4/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45
(...)
Learned one thing i really dont like on the fronts is that when actived 2 of them still control garrison units that you cant get rid of so it take up their command space....one of them has like 10+ command points of junk i cant use attached to it so limits how many armies it can effectively control.

Think when it converts to non-garrison the other units should drop to Stavka control or be transferrable since they will never leave garrison status by the turkish border.


That's the North Caucasus and Transcaucaus fronts.

For the North Caucasus Front, it loses 1 CP because of that pesky NKVD Border Guard garrisoned frozen at Novorossiysk, that should just disband like all other NKVD Border units do, but doesn't because it's permanently frozen. It's not a big loss, specially after Command Capacity for fronts increases at early 1942. If you can't cope with it, you can just use the scenario editor and either transfer control of that unit to the Transcaucasus Front, or set it to unfrozen late in 1941 so it disbands like all other NKVD Border Guards.

Regarding the Transcaucasus Front, I just assume it's a frozen front like the Northern and Southern Urals Military Districts, and don't use it at all. After all, It's not like the Soviets have that many capable generals for Front-Level command, and I rather leave the Armies report directly to Stavka than put them under command of Budyonny, Kulik or Cherevichenko, who are only good to fail the roll and double the difficulty for the Stavka commander (usually Zhukov). (I have a soft spot for Voroshilov because of his excellent morale rating, though). By the time the Soviets promote enough capable leaders to Front-Level command, you have more than enough command capacity without the (now) Caucasus Front.








< Message edited by IvanShuski -- 11/2/2015 11:11:31 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Soviet on map artillery - Best use - 11/2/2015 11:42:29 AM   
Rodimstev

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 5/16/2012
Status: offline 		thanks for all response

kinds regards

Rodimstev

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