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[FIXED][757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Boomers

 
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[FIXED][757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea... - 11/10/2015 9:19:31 PM   
kaburke61

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		Hey All,

So I am playing Barents Sea Boomers, and I cannot seem to identify subs any further than "type classify" to SS. Target was moving around 3 kts constantly, I was in his baffles, for at least 5+ hours and nothing further. I tried changing course to get my sides exposed to him (in some games, the various arrays mattered for that), I even came in to around 540m and nothing. It was only when I fired on him (lucky it was a baddie after all!), that it instantly then gave me the class identification.

Something I'm doing wrong? I understand that maybe getting the exact unit identification would be problematic, but you would think I could at least identify basic class, or something. It happened with both soviet SS subs I tailed.

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< Message edited by Sunburn -- 11/12/2015 1:12:10 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/10/2015 9:31:32 PM   
CCIP-subsim


Posts: 695
Joined: 11/10/2015
Status: offline 		That's normal in my experiences. In fact the only time I get positive IDs on enemy subs from passive sonar is when they speed up and start making a lot of noise to be able to classify them.

Here the scenario briefing certainly throws you a bone - you know that you're hunting Soviet subs and you know that the unseen British subs that are out there are SSNs. Therefore, you can deduce that any SS, SSGN or SSBN contacts are pretty certainly hostile.

Alternatively, you can always try to scare them with something (like active sonar or making noise yourself) and see what happens, but I don't recommend it.

< Message edited by CCIPsubsim -- 11/10/2015 10:32:10 PM >

(in reply to kaburke61)
Post #: 2
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/11/2015 11:55:52 AM   
strykerpsg

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		While that may seem normal for CCIPsubsim, I feel certain it chafes more than a few sonarmen that are able to classify type and even hull numbers based on their library of sound files and vast experiences.

This was something I also expressed in an earlier version of the same scenario. Apparently it's not fixed yet. I also trailed a 5kt contact that got as far as classifying it as an SSN. The only reason I assumed it to be friendly was the fact that it initially bore into me, ran parallel and followed me thru the layers, without ever firing on me. It then turned and resumed it's course. It then turned up as an SSN...

While CCIPsubsim is right that "you're thrown a bone" in the scenario description, there is also RU SSN's defending their bastion, so that bone can quickly backfire. You have the option to kill those too, in addition to the SS Foxtrot's. So, I think there should be a more realistic way to determine side without compromising your active arrays.

(in reply to CCIP-subsim)
Post #: 3
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/11/2015 3:17:47 PM   
CCIP-subsim


Posts: 695
Joined: 11/10/2015
Status: offline 		Oh no, I see what you mean with that - and I agree that there are some "fog of war" issues involved here with CMANO, specifically the all-or-nothing (or all-or-type-or-nothing) approach to classifying sonar contacts. I would not want super-sonarmen removing all ambiguity quickly, but in the ideal world what I think would be best is if there were some intermediate steps in identification - maybe if the Contact Report page treated sounds as emmissions and offered a list of possible platform IDs that would get narrowed down over time until eventually it was down to a specific ID or at least a small possible set of IDs. I don't really need to know the hull number, but it would be helpful if the game's sonar operators could at least tell me how likely it was to be Russian.

(in reply to strykerpsg)
Post #: 4
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/11/2015 4:56:32 PM   
kaburke61

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CCIPsubsim

Oh no, I see what you mean with that - and I agree that there are some "fog of war" issues involved here with CMANO, specifically the all-or-nothing (or all-or-type-or-nothing) approach to classifying sonar contacts. I would not want super-sonarmen removing all ambiguity quickly, but in the ideal world what I think would be best is if there were some intermediate steps in identification - maybe if the Contact Report page treated sounds as emmissions and offered a list of possible platform IDs that would get narrowed down over time until eventually it was down to a specific ID or at least a small possible set of IDs. I don't really need to know the hull number, but it would be helpful if the game's sonar operators could at least tell me how likely it was to be Russian.


Exactly my thoughts on this. That would be a great enhancement to the contacts report.

It is very frustrating to tail a contact for over 4+ hours as close as 600m and still have no idea what kind of SSN I'm tailing. If it is realistic then so be it, if not.....

< Message edited by kaburke61 -- 11/12/2015 5:05:19 AM >

(in reply to CCIP-subsim)
Post #: 5
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/12/2015 4:05:46 AM   
kaburke61

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		Bump (fell off page). Wanted to hear from Devs... Maybe I need to put as a bug (not sure it is) in Tech Support thread.

(in reply to kaburke61)
Post #: 6
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/12/2015 11:55:35 AM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaburke61

Hey All,

So I am playing Barents Sea Boomers, and I cannot seem to identify subs any further than "type classify" to SS. Target was moving around 3 kts constantly, I was in his baffles, for at least 5+ hours and nothing further. I tried changing course to get my sides exposed to him (in some games, the various arrays mattered for that), I even came in to around 540m and nothing. It was only when I fired on him (lucky it was a baddie after all!), that it instantly then gave me the class identification.

Something I'm doing wrong? I understand that maybe getting the exact unit identification would be problematic, but you would think I could at least identify basic class, or something. It happened with both soviet SS subs I tailed.


Thanks! There was indeed a bug (an erroneous numerical threshold, in fact) that made it extremely unlikely to classify very quiet targets even after prolonged holding of the contact. Fixed for the next release.

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(in reply to kaburke61)
Post #: 7
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/12/2015 2:53:10 PM   
CCIP-subsim


Posts: 695
Joined: 11/10/2015
Status: offline 		Great, thank you for the update, seems like a very reasonable solution for the moment

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 8
RE: [757.10] Problem identifying subs in Barents Sea Bo... - 11/12/2015 3:30:47 PM   
kaburke61

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaburke61

Hey All,

So I am playing Barents Sea Boomers, and I cannot seem to identify subs any further than "type classify" to SS. Target was moving around 3 kts constantly, I was in his baffles, for at least 5+ hours and nothing further. I tried changing course to get my sides exposed to him (in some games, the various arrays mattered for that), I even came in to around 540m and nothing. It was only when I fired on him (lucky it was a baddie after all!), that it instantly then gave me the class identification.

Something I'm doing wrong? I understand that maybe getting the exact unit identification would be problematic, but you would think I could at least identify basic class, or something. It happened with both soviet SS subs I tailed.


Thanks! There was indeed a bug (an erroneous numerical threshold, in fact) that made it extremely unlikely to classify very quiet targets even after prolonged holding of the contact. Fixed for the next release.


As usual, you guys are the best! Thanks so much for the quick attention.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 9
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