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Supply Unit not working - 11/10/2015 12:23:15 PM   
Larry Smith

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 4/14/2001
From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada
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In a previous Axis turn, I moved the Balboa HQ atop the supply source {in Iraq, at the end of the rail spur coming south out of Baghdad} and then expended the supply unit - which the rules claim I can do anytime as long as the Supply unit is organized [and the game lets me do this with a disorganized HQ] - and thus, according to the rules, my Balboa HQ [the Italian 3-3 INF HQ] is now supposed to be a Primary Supply Source! As it is on a rail line, the Graziani ARM HQ, which is also on a rail line, should be able to draw supply from that PRIMARY SOURCE, as should the three Italian units just to the east, as they are in range [only two hexes away]. The weather is clear, and as they are tracing an overland supply line to a functioning supply source which is only two physical hexes away, they should be in supply! Yet they are not.

I am using the latest patch [2.1.0.3], and since adding that patch, I've been having these little hiccups. The write up did mention that some tweaks were made to the supply sub-routines. Oddly, now whenever I move an HQ - or perhaps it is just Rommel, as he seems to have been programmed with inherent supply issues - the program takes upwards several minutes to do whatever it is doing, and this is just when I am selecting the unit! Supply should only matter at the beginning of the move, and the end of it, and if the move is being made in stages, there is that Crtl-left mouse thing to do for that, so why is the program bothering to do any calculations before I finish the move?
At the time, Rommel was in Rumania, and Germany not yet at war with the Soviets. He started on a rail line, so he was in supply. If this is something being done for the sake of the possible AI, could it be disabled until there is an AI to make use of it? After all, a human player can see where he or she is starting, and where he or she wishes to move! The computer can do its fussing after the move is done, before the next move is made, while the player ponders that next move!
Post #: 1
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/10/2015 5:17:12 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry Smith

In a previous Axis turn, I moved the Balboa HQ atop the supply source {in Iraq, at the end of the rail spur coming south out of Baghdad} and then expended the supply unit - which the rules claim I can do anytime as long as the Supply unit is organized [and the game lets me do this with a disorganized HQ] - and thus, according to the rules, my Balboa HQ [the Italian 3-3 INF HQ] is now supposed to be a Primary Supply Source! As it is on a rail line, the Graziani ARM HQ, which is also on a rail line, should be able to draw supply from that PRIMARY SOURCE, as should the three Italian units just to the east, as they are in range [only two hexes away]. The weather is clear, and as they are tracing an overland supply line to a functioning supply source which is only two physical hexes away, they should be in supply! Yet they are not.

I am using the latest patch [2.1.0.3], and since adding that patch, I've been having these little hiccups. The write up did mention that some tweaks were made to the supply sub-routines. Oddly, now whenever I move an HQ - or perhaps it is just Rommel, as he seems to have been programmed with inherent supply issues - the program takes upwards several minutes to do whatever it is doing, and this is just when I am selecting the unit! Supply should only matter at the beginning of the move, and the end of it, and if the move is being made in stages, there is that Crtl-left mouse thing to do for that, so why is the program bothering to do any calculations before I finish the move?
At the time, Rommel was in Rumania, and Germany not yet at war with the Soviets. He started on a rail line, so he was in supply. If this is something being done for the sake of the possible AI, could it be disabled until there is an AI to make use of it? After all, a human player can see where he or she is starting, and where he or she wishes to move! The computer can do its fussing after the move is done, before the next move is made, while the player ponders that next move!


I have a couple of Supply bugs that I will be working on this week. If you have a saved game I would really appreciate it. I don't have many games where it is possible to use a Supply unit correctly/reasonably. Another one that reveals problems would help me test that portion of the code some more.

You are correct that the program calculates supply when you pick up a unit and then again when you place it in a hex. When a unit leaves a hex it can change the supply status of both friendly and enemy units, and that is especially true for HQ units. The beta testers have given me some good advice about situations where it isn't necessary to recalculate supply for units moving at sea. I'll think about the land move situations some more to see if it is possible to eliminate supply recalculations at times.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Larry Smith)
Post #: 2
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/10/2015 9:34:26 PM   
Larry Smith

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 4/14/2001
From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada
Status: offline
I just happen to have the auto-save from just before I moved that Italian HQ to the supply unit. The Supply unit is already in place, as are the other units. All you need to do is move that HQ to the supply, use the supply, and while the HQ does become "in supply", it's not becoming a "primary source".

And if you want to see what I meant with respect to moving the HQ's - there seems to be way too much in the way of calculations going on, way too soon, seeing as none of it matters until the unit is placed in its new hex - you can try advancing to the land move phase, and move Rommel [he's stacked in the NE top corner of Romania]. But you can also take my opinion there with a proverbial grain of salt. I was frustrated from a lack of sleep, and I had tried that night. I know better than to tax my mind at five am after no sleep, but there's not much else to do that keeps me quiet.

In my opinion, though, a player can easily see from the status buttons whether a unit is or is not in supply at the time of selection. There is even a text read-out; the game does everything but reach out and smack them to let them know. Any calculations made at the time of selection - before a unit is actually moved to its new hex - is wasted, unless you were to show the player [by way of greying out or highlighting the possibilities] the possibilities wrt to his supply-range options, for each and every single hex the unit could be moved to! That would mean adding something to allow a player to "test" each possible placement. Such a feature, however - and this is just my opinion - would be wholly redundant, since the player can just look and see what has changed once he or she has made their move! Moving an HQ is sufficiently important to warrant saving prior, especially if the HQ is to be moved into a hex that changes the game in a way that prevents a move from being un-done. And until a move has been made, there's no point to making unnecessary calculations - the computer can just do it when the unit arrives, and then only for the new placement.

I would prefer the move to be done faster, and then be forced to wait to see the consequences - and thus ponder them - than to have to wait mid-move, with everything locked up, not sure if its just busy or if its gone and froze-itself up.

Maybe a "ghost move" function for HQ's, which allows a player to make the move, see the supply changes, but doesn't change control [or anything else that makes a "permanent change"] until the move for the HQ is finalized. But just for HQ's!! Otherwise, I'd just recommend shaving off the calculations till the destination is chosen.

I also think 10,000 hexes as a limit [I read the write-up for the 2.1.0.3 patch] is way too much. A quarter of that should be enough - maybe even no more than 1000. Seriously - 1000 hexes would be 28,000 km in game-scale, which is already more than half the circumference of the planet! 10,000 hexes would be like drawing supply from a Moon base, or something like that! 10,000 hexes would be like tracing a path around the equator SEVEN times! Way too much!

< Message edited by Larry Smith -- 11/10/2015 10:57:33 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 3
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/10/2015 9:35:27 PM   
Larry Smith

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 4/14/2001
From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada
Status: offline
Here's the file

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Larry Smith)
Post #: 4
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/12/2015 9:09:37 PM   
Larry Smith

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 4/14/2001
From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada
Status: offline
Got any other special situations you'd like to have checked out? I may not have a perfect understanding of the rules, but if you want something checked out, I can do that.

(in reply to Larry Smith)
Post #: 5
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/16/2015 2:59:40 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry Smith

Here's the file

Using your saved game I moved the Supply Unit to Balbo and expended it. That made Balbo a primary supply source for the impulse and for the next two impulses (an Allied impulse and a second Axis impulse). I didn;t test any further than that.

So this appears to be working correctly. Note that the benefits only last for 1 turn.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Larry Smith)
Post #: 6
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/16/2015 3:18:09 AM   
Larry Smith

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 4/14/2001
From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada
Status: offline
The problem occurred when I rail moved Balbo to the Supply Unit, and there in the hex, he was allowed to expend the unit. The game showed him as being in supply, and thus he should have been at the very least, a secondary supply source, but he was not. Only he was in supply. The other units were all two hexes away, but the weather was clear, so that should have been close enough. Heck, maybe he was turned into a primary source, but the problem I saw was that the units that should have been able to draw supply form him couldn't. I'll try your patch, and let you know if it repeats, or works. Thanks!

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 7
RE: Supply Unit not working - 11/16/2015 4:08:29 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry Smith

The problem occurred when I rail moved Balbo to the Supply Unit, and there in the hex, he was allowed to expend the unit. The game showed him as being in supply, and thus he should have been at the very least, a secondary supply source, but he was not. Only he was in supply. The other units were all two hexes away, but the weather was clear, so that should have been close enough. Heck, maybe he was turned into a primary source, but the problem I saw was that the units that should have been able to draw supply form him couldn't. I'll try your patch, and let you know if it repeats, or works. Thanks!


The problem was that supply was not being automatically recalculated once Balbo became a primary supply source. I move a German HQ (or something), which forced the recalculation of supply. I'll add code to force the recalculation of supply when a Supply unit is expended.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Larry Smith)
Post #: 8
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