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What about Soviet Guards units?

 
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What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 4:18:28 AM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Couldn't find in the manual and I know historically that there were Guards units in '41.
Post #: 1
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 6:40:45 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I have the same thoughts...

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RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 8:12:00 AM   
Kronolog

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 3/23/2011
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		As the German player has the ability to give a commendation to a succesfull division, perhaps the Soviet player should have the ability to officially bestow the Guards title to one of his.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 3
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 8:29:15 AM   
gunnergoz


Posts: 447
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: San Diego CA
Status: offline 		Looks like most of the chrome in the game was saved for the German side of play.

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RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 9:06:02 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		A quick look at Glantz indicates that ten Soviet Guards divisions had been designated by the end of 1941; wikipedia indicates that up to five more may have been designated by Feb 1942 (ie, the end of the game).

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Post #: 5
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 5:29:37 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		IMHO this game is incomplete without the reflection of the Guards units.

"The title of the Soviet Guards was first introduced on September 18, 1941 in accordance with the decision of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief (Stavka Verkhovnogo Glavnokomanduyuschego) and by the order №308 of the People's Commissar of Defense for the distinguished services during the Yelnya Offensive. The 100th, 127th, 153rd and 161st Rifle Divisions were renamed into the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Guards Divisions, respectively. The Soviet 316th Rifle Division was renamed to the 8th Guards Rifle Division on November 18, 1941, following the actions of the Panfilovtsy and was given the Panfilovskaya title in honor of its late commander Ivan Panfilov. By December 31, 1941 the 107th, 120th, 64th, 316th, 78th, and 52nd Rifle Divisions had become the 5th through 10th Guards Rifle Divisions.[2]"
wikipedia

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RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 5:41:18 PM   
alex0809

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 5/15/2012
Status: offline 		This is indeed a strange omission, considering the German player does have the ability to give bonuses to individual divisions.

No mention of Guards in the designer notes, either.

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Post #: 7
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 5:47:20 PM   
Queeg


Posts: 495
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline 		My understanding is the the Guards designation was created in September 1941, so well within the time frame of the game.

I haven't yet played the Soviet side, but it would be nice to give Stalin something to bestow besides a bullet.

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Post #: 8
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 5:50:18 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, Wite is still the best title for this theatre for this and a few other reasons. However it is well within the reach of this title to get an par with some patches or expansions. But not having Guards units is just not acceptable IMHO.

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Post #: 9
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 6:14:41 PM   
gunnergoz


Posts: 447
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: San Diego CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Yes, Wite is still the best title for this theatre for this and a few other reasons. However it is well within the reach of this title to get an par with some patches or expansions. But not having Guards units is just not acceptable IMHO.


+1

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"Things are getting better!
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Post #: 10
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 7:30:13 PM   
Templer_12


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Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gunnergoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Yes, Wite is still the best title for this theatre for this and a few other reasons. However it is well within the reach of this title to get an par with some patches or expansions. But not having Guards units is just not acceptable IMHO.


+1

+2

(in reply to gunnergoz)
Post #: 11
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 8:07:59 PM   
typhoon

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Comparisons are natural but unmerited I was guilty of the same thing when I first started playing this I wanted some of the things that War in the East did that this didn't. Then I realised that both games offer different things and accepted this game for it's innovation and ease of play after that I was able to get a long much better and freely admit that both games are worthy of attention depending on my mood. I hope more games take this novel approach to strategy. It is good also to have limits on what can and cannot be done with no god like hand able to control every aspect of the war. I really enjoy that it's fresh.

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 12
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 10:22:56 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Even without Wite, shouldn't there be Soviet Guard units later in '41?

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Post #: 13
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 10:32:54 PM   
lancer

 

Posts: 2963
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Hi,

Guard unit designation for the Soviets is on the list of 'nice things to have'.

Some items here made it into the game and other didn't.

The Guards missed the cut as they were, for '41, a relatively minor aspect.

However they are, as you've mentioned, still important and will be introduced in a subsequent update, along with other items on the list, once everything has settled down.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 14
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 10:35:50 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kronolog

As the German player has the ability to give a commendation to a succesfull division, perhaps the Soviet player should have the ability to officially bestow the Guards title to one of his.



Thanks for bringing this up. I can't see what this did for my PZ unit when I gave it the commendation. Didn't gain exp, morale, etc. How does this help the unit?

thanks

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Post #: 15
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 11:11:53 PM   
gunnergoz


Posts: 447
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: San Diego CA
Status: offline 		Appreciate the attention to the comments, Cameron. Great to see designers who listen and participate in the discussion.

_____________________________

"Things are getting better!
...Well, maybe not as good as they were yesterday, but much better than they will be tomorrow!"
-Old Russian saying

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Post #: 16
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 11/30/2015 11:41:23 PM   
lancer

 

Posts: 2963
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Hi izardos,

Ask the unit to Report Status!

If it's a pending commendation then there will be no effect until it's gone through the Heer bureaucracy and has reached your desk. You'll need to approve the Commendation in a decision.

Once approved the unit will gain a permanent Offensive & Defensive combat bonus which from memory is about +20%.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to gunnergoz)
Post #: 17
RE: What about Soviet Guards units? - 12/1/2015 4:51:41 AM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Well that's great that the designer is considering Guards units in a patch. I think this title has promise. It is truly original and, somewhat ingenious in ways, though at this point not fully matured. I can see expansions, '42 scenarios, etc. Not sure how it will all play out in the future w out concrete air units but then, as a friend pointed out, the air war was one sided until about Stalingrad.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 18
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