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Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 5:29:14 PM

reggimann

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

Hi all

I have a question regarding intel. I'm looking at a "ghost fleet" that keeps popping up around the Solomon Islands. I'm looking at OpsReport (sighting) information using CR.

G3M2 Nell sighting report: 8 Allied ships at 107,128 near Feni Islands, speed 19, Moving Southeast

In practice, how do you track threats? Do you keep notes, draw on a map... I'm wondering how experienced players keep track, especially in the full scenario.

In other news, I'm wondering how you guys get intel out of the combat reports. Here we have a raid on the Yorktown carrier group by my guys (Japan). Good work, she's on fire. Here's the report:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ontong Java at 113,131

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N2 Kate x 13

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
1 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 4 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
---------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ontong Java at 113,131

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
B5N2 Kate x 22

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Anderson
CA Chester, Bomb hits 1
DD Morris

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
VF-5 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 2 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Yorktown

Things I don't know (and would like to and maybe should):
1. Who spotted the enemy TF?
2. Where did my raiders originate from (I mean, I know, but what if I had multiple Air-TF in the area or if land based units were available as well?

Is there a way to answer these questions? I'm also using tracker and CR.

I appreciate any pointers!

< Message edited by CptEggman -- 12/11/2015 9:24:35 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 5:51:56 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

I find sighting and SIGINT radio intercept reports to be very suspect early in the game, often mistaking your own ships and signals for the enemy.
I only react to a sighting report if there is corroboration by another source, including SIGINT radio signal reports. You can go crazy chasing all the ghost sightings. I do pay attention to potential sub sightings and divert any TF about to pass through the hex.

There are only a couple of indicators of which air units were involved in an attack :

- during the combat animation you will get transient messages saying which unit is attacking
- after the battle, losses/replacements may tell you which units were in it

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to reggimann)

Post #: 2

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 5:54:15 PM

reggimann

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

There are only a couple of indicators of which air units were involved in an attack :

- during the combat animation you will get transient messages saying which unit is attacking
- after the battle, losses/replacements may tell you which units were in it

Thanks, this leads me to another question: Are these "combat animation messages" logged somewhere?

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 3

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 5:56:58 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

There are only a couple of indicators of which air units were involved in an attack :

- during the combat animation you will get transient messages saying which unit is attacking
- after the battle, losses/replacements may tell you which units were in it

Thanks, this leads me to another question: Are these "combat animation messages" logged somewhere?

Only the ones that you see in the combat report. It would be nice (IMO) if they all were.

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Post #: 4

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 5:59:53 PM

reggimann

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

Guess I must bust out the notepad during combat then, so I can take note of the info BBfanboy mentioned.

< Message edited by CptEggman -- 12/9/2015 7:00:38 PM >

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 5

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 6:05:08 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

Guess I must bust out the notepad during combat then, so I can take note of the info BBfanboy mentioned.

But look right here from the combat report that you posted:

quote:

VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)

VF-2 is the unit name.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to reggimann)

Post #: 6

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 6:10:44 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

Guess I must bust out the notepad during combat then, so I can take note of the info BBfanboy mentioned.

But look right here from the combat report that you posted:

quote:

VF-2 with F4F-3 Wildcat (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)

VF-2 is the unit name.

CptEggman is playing as Japan, and there is no info on the Japanese attackers.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 7

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/9/2015 8:11:24 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Ah!

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Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 8

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 11:20:33 AM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

Hi all

I have a question regarding intel. I'm looking at a "ghost fleet" that keeps popping up around the Solomon Islands. I'm looking at OpsReport (sighting) information using CR.

G3M2 Nell sighting report: 8 Allied ships at 107,128 near Feni Islands, speed 19, Moving Southeast

In practice, most of these multi-ship sighting reports doing 19 or 20 knots are actually submarines. Submarines most often show up as 7, 8, or 9-ship TFs. If the sighting is harder sometimes it will be a text line about a periscope, an oil slick, or a "disturbance in the water." But if I'd had as many 8-ship TFs a hex away from the Yukon coast as I have reports the bottom would be littered with dead ships.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/10/2015 12:21:02 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to reggimann)

Post #: 9

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 12:31:05 PM

reggimann

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Submarines most often show up as 7, 8, or 9-ship TFs.

Very interesting, this I didn't know. I've eventually plotted the sightings on a map and they make no sense at all if we're really looking at a 8-ship-surface-TF. The sightings are all over the map and there is no pattern visible. So my "ghost fleet" is probably nothing.

But how do you distinguish real sightings from these mistakes? Or do you not bother with sightings at all and hence don't track them?

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 10

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 12:39:43 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Submarines most often show up as 7, 8, or 9-ship TFs.

Very interesting, this I didn't know. I've eventually plotted the sightings on a map and they make no sense at all if we're really looking at a 8-ship-surface-TF. The sightings are all over the map and there is no pattern visible. So my "ghost fleet" is probably nothing.

But how do you distinguish real sightings from these mistakes? Or do you not bother with sightings at all and hence don't track them?

I play PBEM, so I look for where the sighting is. If it makes sense it should really be an 8-ship TF I do what I can to verify. Often you can't. If it's at a place no good player would have an 8-ship TF I note there's a sub there. Usually I get the sighting in the first place because of ASW search.

But always assume Airedales lie.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to reggimann)

Post #: 11

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 4:16:46 PM

reggimann

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Usually I get the sighting in the first place because of ASW search.

That's the thing though, and part reason for my post, you can't really tell, right? I mean if you're doing ASW search from say a land base into a stretch of ocean, then that must be the source of the detection. But in the Coral Sea, for instance, where you get intel from searches (TF, land) and coast watchers and whatnot, it's impossible to determine the source. Too bad!

Thanks for your insight.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 12

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 6:50:29 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

Coastwatcher sightings and search sightings are both listed in the Ops report. I find the Coastwatcher ones to be particularly unreliable unless they mention a ship by name.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to reggimann)

Post #: 13

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 7:04:55 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

Hi all

I have a question regarding intel. I'm looking at a "ghost fleet" that keeps popping up around the Solomon Islands. I'm looking at OpsReport (sighting) information using CR.

G3M2 Nell sighting report: 8 Allied ships at 107,128 near Feni Islands, speed 19, Moving Southeast

In practice, most of these multi-ship sighting reports doing 19 or 20 knots are actually submarines. Submarines most often show up as 7, 8, or 9-ship TFs. If the sighting is harder sometimes it will be a text line about a periscope, an oil slick, or a "disturbance in the water." But if I'd had as many 8-ship TFs a hex away from the Yukon coast as I have reports the bottom would be littered with dead ships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Submarines most often show up as 7, 8, or 9-ship TFs.

Very interesting, this I didn't know. I've eventually plotted the sightings on a map and they make no sense at all if we're really looking at a 8-ship-surface-TF. The sightings are all over the map and there is no pattern visible. So my "ghost fleet" is probably nothing.

But how do you distinguish real sightings from these mistakes? Or do you not bother with sightings at all and hence don't track them?

I'll disagree a little...

Pay attention to the color of the sighting message. Actual (confirmed) sightings will be in yellow. Those in blue seem to always be sightings of your own ships and subs. My carrier pilots (Allied or Japanese, doesn't matter) that are assigned to search will almost always tell me they've spotted 12 enemy ships in hex (insert hex their TF is in), or 10 enemy ships in (hex of surface/transport TF that they're escorting). Those messages always appear in a light blue color for me. They're fake.

Most of what is shown in the replay, in terms of the text in the bottom left, is shown in the various text files. It is generally split between the operations text file, and the CombatEvents text file. The combatreport.txt will only be the combat summaries that are shown after animations.

Submarines for me show up as 1- or 2-ship TFs in the sighting reports, unless there is more than 1 sub in the TF... I'm not sure I know of any other players that use multi-sub TFs for certain purposes

. Bullwinkle's 7, 8, 9-ship TFs of subs might be a memory of certain instances where I've used multi-sub TFs for something or other.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 14

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 7:05:16 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Coastwatcher sightings and search sightings are both listed in the Ops report. I find the Coastwatcher ones to be particularly unreliable unless they mention a ship by name.

Even then... I used to get reports of CV Kaga being in port at Lae. Yeah, right. It was probably an xAK.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 15

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 9:44:44 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'll disagree a little...

Pay attention to the color of the sighting message. Actual (confirmed) sightings will be in yellow. Those in blue seem to always be sightings of your own ships and subs. My carrier pilots (Allied or Japanese, doesn't matter) that are assigned to search will almost always tell me they've spotted 12 enemy ships in hex (insert hex their TF is in), or 10 enemy ships in (hex of surface/transport TF that they're escorting). Those messages always appear in a light blue color for me. They're fake.

Most of what is shown in the replay, in terms of the text in the bottom left, is shown in the various text files. It is generally split between the operations text file, and the CombatEvents text file. The combatreport.txt will only be the combat summaries that are shown after animations.

Submarines for me show up as 1- or 2-ship TFs in the sighting reports, unless there is more than 1 sub in the TF... I'm not sure I know of any other players that use multi-sub TFs for certain purposes . Bullwinkle's 7, 8, 9-ship TFs of subs might be a memory of certain instances where I've used multi-sub TFs for something or other.

I opened the Archive folder for one of my games. I clicked on a random day. I got this in the reports:

"SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 9 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 11, Moving Northwest
SBD-3 Dauntless reports periscope at 174, 122 near Palmyra
SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 6 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 18, Moving East
SB2U-3 Vindicator sighting report: 7 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 19, Moving East"

My conclusion? One submarine.

With some training you begin to get this. This one is three months after the first one:

"OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports object under water at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports oil slick at 161, 54 near Ulak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports oil slick at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports periscope at 163, 51 near Atka Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports periscope wake at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports shape below surface at 163, 51 near Atka Island
F-4 Lightning reports shape below surface at 163, 54 near Adak Island"

On the colors, I don't see any colors. All messages on the map are white on a black background/box. The lower left text stack is sort of a wheat brown, trending toward mustard. I just watched a movie with probably 10 air search hits and all were in white.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 16

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 9:53:53 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

I have become convinced that many times those erroneous sightings are sightings of own ships as enemy.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 17

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 10:09:36 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I have become convinced that many times those erroneous sightings are sightings of own ships as enemy.

They certainly are in the early war, and sometimes even later by coast watchers.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 18

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 11:06:12 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'll disagree a little...

Pay attention to the color of the sighting message. Actual (confirmed) sightings will be in yellow. Those in blue seem to always be sightings of your own ships and subs. My carrier pilots (Allied or Japanese, doesn't matter) that are assigned to search will almost always tell me they've spotted 12 enemy ships in hex (insert hex their TF is in), or 10 enemy ships in (hex of surface/transport TF that they're escorting). Those messages always appear in a light blue color for me. They're fake.

Most of what is shown in the replay, in terms of the text in the bottom left, is shown in the various text files. It is generally split between the operations text file, and the CombatEvents text file. The combatreport.txt will only be the combat summaries that are shown after animations.

Submarines for me show up as 1- or 2-ship TFs in the sighting reports, unless there is more than 1 sub in the TF... I'm not sure I know of any other players that use multi-sub TFs for certain purposes . Bullwinkle's 7, 8, 9-ship TFs of subs might be a memory of certain instances where I've used multi-sub TFs for something or other.

I opened the Archive folder for one of my games. I clicked on a random day. I got this in the reports:

"SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 9 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 11, Moving Northwest
SBD-3 Dauntless reports periscope at 174, 122 near Palmyra
SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 6 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 18, Moving East
SB2U-3 Vindicator sighting report: 7 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 19, Moving East"

My conclusion? One submarine.

With some training you begin to get this. This one is three months after the first one:

"OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports object under water at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports oil slick at 161, 54 near Ulak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports oil slick at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports periscope at 163, 51 near Atka Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports periscope wake at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports shape below surface at 163, 51 near Atka Island
F-4 Lightning reports shape below surface at 163, 54 near Adak Island"

On the colors, I don't see any colors. All messages on the map are white on a black background/box. The lower left text stack is sort of a wheat brown, trending toward mustard. I just watched a movie with probably 10 air search hits and all were in white.

If that's our game... I haven't had any kind of sub near Palmyra in a year-plus.

The line I bolded doesn't mean anything to me. It shows up sometimes for no reason, and sometimes when they see a (friendly) task force. Particularly if it's same hex as the TF. I only believe those if a sub appears on the map afterwards.

Do you know if there was a friendly TF in 174,122 that day? That looks to me like a Dauntless (and Vindicator) sighting its own CV TF heading east

. The sighting pointing to northwest looks like one of those "random other direction headings" that happens when you "spot" something.

Edit for colors: I am referring to the wheat/mustard color area

. The fake sightings will always be in a light blue. Kind of an Easter/pastel blue.

Even my highly trained naval search pilots report my own ships. It happens all the time. All. The. Time. I have multiple every single turn, but that's partially because I'm searching over my own convoys as Japan...

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 12/11/2015 12:07:29 AM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 19

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/10/2015 11:52:42 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

Lokasenna: Edit for colors: I am referring to the wheat/mustard color area . The fake sightings will always be in a light blue. Kind of an Easter/pastel blue.

I see the pale blue text when TF CAP intercepts a snooper or when my search attacks a sub, stuff like that.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 20

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 12:04:36 AM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'll disagree a little...

Pay attention to the color of the sighting message. Actual (confirmed) sightings will be in yellow. Those in blue seem to always be sightings of your own ships and subs. My carrier pilots (Allied or Japanese, doesn't matter) that are assigned to search will almost always tell me they've spotted 12 enemy ships in hex (insert hex their TF is in), or 10 enemy ships in (hex of surface/transport TF that they're escorting). Those messages always appear in a light blue color for me. They're fake.

Most of what is shown in the replay, in terms of the text in the bottom left, is shown in the various text files. It is generally split between the operations text file, and the CombatEvents text file. The combatreport.txt will only be the combat summaries that are shown after animations.

Submarines for me show up as 1- or 2-ship TFs in the sighting reports, unless there is more than 1 sub in the TF... I'm not sure I know of any other players that use multi-sub TFs for certain purposes . Bullwinkle's 7, 8, 9-ship TFs of subs might be a memory of certain instances where I've used multi-sub TFs for something or other.

I opened the Archive folder for one of my games. I clicked on a random day. I got this in the reports:

"SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 9 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 11, Moving Northwest
SBD-3 Dauntless reports periscope at 174, 122 near Palmyra
SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 6 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 18, Moving East
SB2U-3 Vindicator sighting report: 7 Japanese ships at 174,122 near Palmyra, speed 19, Moving East"

My conclusion? One submarine.

With some training you begin to get this. This one is three months after the first one:

"OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports object under water at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports oil slick at 161, 54 near Ulak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports oil slick at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports periscope at 163, 51 near Atka Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports periscope wake at 163, 54 near Adak Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher reports shape below surface at 163, 51 near Atka Island
F-4 Lightning reports shape below surface at 163, 54 near Adak Island"

On the colors, I don't see any colors. All messages on the map are white on a black background/box. The lower left text stack is sort of a wheat brown, trending toward mustard. I just watched a movie with probably 10 air search hits and all were in white.

If that's our game... I haven't had any kind of sub near Palmyra in a year-plus.

The line I bolded doesn't mean anything to me. It shows up sometimes for no reason, and sometimes when they see a (friendly) task force. Particularly if it's same hex as the TF. I only believe those if a sub appears on the map afterwards.

Do you know if there was a friendly TF in 174,122 that day? That looks to me like a Dauntless (and Vindicator) sighting its own CV TF heading east . The sighting pointing to northwest looks like one of those "random other direction headings" that happens when you "spot" something.

Edit for colors: I am referring to the wheat/mustard color area . The fake sightings will always be in a light blue. Kind of an Easter/pastel blue.

Even my highly trained naval search pilots report my own ships. It happens all the time. All. The. Time. I have multiple every single turn, but that's partially because I'm searching over my own convoys as Japan...

The Palmyra sighting is our game, from December 1941. The second one is our game too, from March 1942.

I don't see any colors in the lower left except the wheat. What rez are you on?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 21

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 12:06:02 AM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

Lokasenna: Edit for colors: I am referring to the wheat/mustard color area . The fake sightings will always be in a light blue. Kind of an Easter/pastel blue.

I see the pale blue text when TF CAP intercepts a snooper or when my search attacks a sub, stuff like that.

I'm not color-blind, but this is new news to me. I'll look harder, but . . . wow.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 22

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 12:17:49 AM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

OK, I just ran a 12/8/41 Head-to-Head turn and damn if there weren't about ten blue lines of text. Alfred (at least) has laughed at how I perceive things in this UI; I would have sworn in court that there is never a blue line in that box. I probably, thousands of turns ago, tuned them out because until today I didn't know that meant anything. Is the blue thing in the manual?

When I watch a movie I look at the map, and only occasionally glance at the lower left because I know I'm going to look at the text files anyway. But they're all in black ink. It takes a lot to surprise me on this game anymore, but this just did.

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The Moose

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 23

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 12:20:08 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

OK, I just ran a 12/8/41 Head-to-Head turn and damn if there weren't about ten blue lines of text. Alfred (at least) has laughed at how I perceive things in this UI; I would have sworn in court that there is never a blue line in that box. I probably, thousands of turns ago, tuned them out because until today I didn't know that meant anything. Is the blue thing in the manual?

When I watch a movie I look at the map, and only occasionally glance at the lower left because I know I'm going to look at the text files anyway. But they're all in black ink. It takes a lot to surprise me on this game anymore, but this just did.

I see that blue all the time. If it's on a sighting report, it's always a fake one. I think the blue ones are "confirmed fakes" whereas the wheat-colored ones are at least potential enemy sightings if not confirmed sightings.

As BBFanboy says, the blue line is used when a plane is destroyed by CAP in a hex.

I really, really wish that message said which hex.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 24

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 12:53:31 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

OK, I just ran a 12/8/41 Head-to-Head turn and damn if there weren't about ten blue lines of text. Alfred (at least) has laughed at how I perceive things in this UI; I would have sworn in court that there is never a blue line in that box. I probably, thousands of turns ago, tuned them out because until today I didn't know that meant anything. Is the blue thing in the manual?

When I watch a movie I look at the map, and only occasionally glance at the lower left because I know I'm going to look at the text files anyway. But they're all in black ink. It takes a lot to surprise me on this game anymore, but this just did.

Could have something to do with your message delay settings. Too short a delay and you will miss the text before it scrolls off.

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Post #: 25

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 1:05:04 AM

witpqs

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From: Argleton
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In the reports, a while back Michael added that sometimes a plane destroyed by CAP message will include the hex. The variability is meant to account for the fact that sometimes the pilot/crew can get off a message, and sometimes they can't.

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Post #: 26

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 8:18:22 AM

reggimann

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So what Lokasenna is saying is that in the replay, the message color indicates its validity, but when reading up in the text files after the replay this information is not available anymore?

That's... special.

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Post #: 27

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 3:19:34 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CptEggman

So what Lokasenna is saying is that in the replay, the message color indicates its validity, but when reading up in the text files after the replay this information is not available anymore?

That's... special.

That's pretty much how I read it. So you've gotta pay attention during the replay, or else you can go back through the sighting reports and compare to your known forces when doing your orders phase - it should be fairly obvious that the 7, 8, 9 ships reported by Bullwinkle's SBDs are really sighting its own TF, for example, and you can ignore that one.

I highly recommend watching the air search phases of the replay at regular speed, not skipping through unless you know what you're missing, because you can often see the little stops/pauses as planes are sighted above things, or things are sighted, even if it doesn't give you a message about them. You can notice where your opponent is running Recon missions even if you don't get a "Ki-46-II Dinah sighted over Akyab" message, for example, as you might see the map pause with the focus/crosshairs on Akyab (if you pay really close attention you'll also notice that for one side's planes the crosshairs are blue, and for the other side they are red).

You also might see enemy subs (or your own subs!) appear during the air search phase, which tells you that they were detected. Very useful stuff.

(in reply to reggimann)

Post #: 28

RE: Intel tracking & raid information - 12/11/2015 3:20:43 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

In the reports, a while back Michael added that sometimes a plane destroyed by CAP message will include the hex. The variability is meant to account for the fact that sometimes the pilot/crew can get off a message, and sometimes they can't.

Ah, true. I tend not to get the message much. I just hate that if I'm not paying attention and I want to figure out where that plane got shot down, I have to go back and watch the replay again - because it will tell me, as it will pause over the spot that it happened. I figure if the information can be had that way all of the time, it may as well be in the report all of the time.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 29