RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/10/2015 12:24:58 PM

Lowpe

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He is attacking you in May of 1942 in the Kuriles?

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/10/2015 12:47:03 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Now, not to seem ungrateful, not to you but the aircraft, but I expected more out of the Netties. I read, LBA, LBA, LBA, but the way you suggested appears to be mostly recon with an occasional attack. There is nothing wrong with that of course but from what I read I expect the Netties to chew-up and spit-out everything in sight. As admitted prior, I haven't read that much.

[/size]

Read between the lines ... Netties properly employed will stop everything but the DS. They will, as you say, "chew everything up".

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Post #: 332

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/10/2015 12:54:58 PM

PaxMondo

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Don't overlook that you want/need overlapping coverage of the arcs. It is not hard to slip through single coverage, double/triple coverage much harder. Don't overlook your Mavis/Emily units. I don't name them as you just don't get so many, but they along with the Nells are your patrol/.attack units. Don't use them beyond 15 hex range unless you REALLY need to. Fatigue increases rapidly AND spotting drops significantly .... (every hex of range increases the area searched by a square hence the efficiency of the search also drops once the square is larger than your horizon ...;)

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Pax

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Post #: 333

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/11/2015 12:32:50 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He is attacking you in May of 1942 in the Kuriles?

Lowpe!! ... when you put it that way it sounds so ..... absurd. * laughing *

No he is not attacking me (the "example"), but he will and I want to be as ready as I can.

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 334

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/11/2015 12:42:12 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
... remember, you do not want to over build your 1st and 2nd gen aircraft ... you need to conserve supply and HI to build the 3rd gen.

Ha-35 is a 1st/2nd gen engine. No 3rd gen AC uses it except for your kami's .... you may need to increase the Ha-35 above 500/month, but I would do so cautiously....

Pax, is this what you have in mind when you talk about generations as far as production? The third generation would be the first heavily produced a/c?

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_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 335

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/11/2015 12:58:45 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
... remember, you do not want to over build your 1st and 2nd gen aircraft ... you need to conserve supply and HI to build the 3rd gen.

Ha-35 is a 1st/2nd gen engine. No 3rd gen AC uses it except for your kami's .... you may need to increase the Ha-35 above 500/month, but I would do so cautiously....

Pax, is this what you have in mind when you talk about generations as far as production? The third generation would be the first heavily produced a/c?

Most of us would call your 1st/2nd == 1st, your 3rd = 2nd, and your 4th/5th = 3rd.

But yes, you have the concept. Don't over build early on, easy trap to fall into. Don't under build though either, you want to have air dominance. Tricky balance.

Think of it this way; there is a finite amount of supply in the game for IJ. You will run out of supply by 6/46. So, given that, which do you prefer to fly in '45: an Oscar or a Frank? If you want to fly Frank, you have to be sure that you have the supply available to build those factories.

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Pax

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Post #: 336

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/11/2015 1:02:42 PM

PaxMondo

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PS: When I say build, I am not referring to actually building planes into the pool, but rather the factory expansions (both airframe and engine) that allow the builds. At 1000 supply per build, that can consume a lot of supply quickly.

For example: you build 500 x Oscar and 500 x Ha-35 to support that build. Now you have to convert those to Frank, another 1000 factories or 1,000,000 supply. Ooops!
Doing that with one model, you can recover somewhat (although you will still miss that 1M supply I promise). Do that with 2 or 3 more and in '45 you won't be able to build those cool Shinden or Ki-83 factories that you want ...

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/11/2015 2:03:45 PM >

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Pax

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Post #: 337

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/11/2015 1:06:01 PM

PaxMondo

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Typical naming convention:
AC that can be built in:
41/42 = 1st Gen
43/44 = 2nd gen
45/46 = 3rd gen

'44 has some slop to it so these definitions are not hard and fast. maybe better to say early 44 is 2nd gen, late 44 is 3rd. Anyway, you get the idea. The really cools planes are the 3rd gen.

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Pax

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Post #: 338

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/11/2015 1:14:57 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

PS: When I say build, I am not referring to actually building planes into the pool, but rather the factory expansions (both airframe and engine) that allow the builds. At 1000 supply per build, that can consume a lot of supply quickly.

For example: you build 500 x Oscar and 500 x Ha-35 to support that build. Now you have to convert those to Frank, another 1000 factories or 1,000,000 supply. Ooops!
Doing that with one model, you can recover somewhat (although you will still miss that 1M supply I promise). Do that with 2 or 3 more and in '45 you won't be able to build those cool Shinden or Ki-83 factories that you want ...

OK, thanks for the clarification. Tricky indeed. Here is a quick and dirty change. I will start fine tuning it now.

Also rereading the above and putting it together with your past posts, choosing less models to produce makes a lot more sense re the cost of a/c.

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 339

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 1:13:19 AM

PaxMondo

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So to help a bit more;

Helen is a 1st gen LB ... sure there are upgrades into 43, but the capability is still 1st Gen. Peggy is a 2nd/3rd gen. Doesn't matter what you call her, she is the last LB you get, so end of the line.

Referring to my earlier posts, the most efficient way to look at these is by operational category:
Interceptor
Escort
Night Fighter
Level Bomber
Dive Bomber
etc.

If you have more than one model in a category at the same time frame, be sure you understand why because you are likely wasting supply.

EX:
Mavis L
Tina
Ok, both are Transports and both are 1st gen and both have similar range. BUT the Mavis is float which means is does not need an AF to operate from. That gives you unique capabilities IF you are going use them. If not, don't build it. waste of supply. So building it depends entirely upon your strategy and the Mavis is an OFFENSIVE weapon, so its use is entirely in your control. You know if you will use it or not. Its not a "it depends" thing.

Good Luck!

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Pax

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Post #: 340

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 12:44:36 PM

el lobo

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Pax, I need to establish a definition and criteria for �generation� in my mind.

When you say do not overbuild the first and second generation, I interpret that roughly as, pick a later model in the line that will be your strong plane and focus on that.

On the other hand you are saying that generation is tied to years.

Lets take the veritable Zero for one example. The M2 is clearly first generation and the M5 can clearly be argued a second generation. I will not overbuild the M2 but the M5 is going to be my workhorse for a large part of the war. There are up-grades but as we discussed earlier, they are of not much significance. Therefore in the class of build significance, I would call the M5 third generation.

You say all of the Helens are first generation but again it is going to have to carry the Army's bombing load until the Peggy comes along. Calling them all first or all third generation makes no difference in terms of build significance. It is just going to be a balancing act to make sure you have enough of what you need at the time you need it.

A line like the Oscar just keeps getting better with each upgrade and so that needs to be done as they come along. There is no shinning star in that line and there the only way to classify the third generation is by year which may not be of much use or significance. Here again is the balance you discussed when it comes to building. Prudence along the line but perhaps a focus on whatever model is at hand when it is needed most. Not much use in trying to classify any model as third generation.

Is this making any sense?

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 341

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 1:32:47 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Pax, I need to establish a definition and criteria for �generation� in my mind.

When you say do not overbuild the first and second generation, I interpret that roughly as, pick a later model in the line that will be your strong plane and focus on that.

On the other hand you are saying that generation is tied to years.

Lets take the veritable Zero for one example. The M2 is clearly first generation and the M5 can clearly be argued a second generation. I will not overbuild the M2 but the M5 is going to be my workhorse for a large part of the war. There are up-grades but as we discussed earlier, they are of not much significance. Therefore in the class of build significance, I would call the M5 third generation.

You say all of the Helens are first generation but again it is going to have to carry the Army's bombing load until the Peggy comes along. Calling them all first or all third generation makes no difference in terms of build significance. It is just going to be a balancing act to make sure you have enough of what you need at the time you need it.

A line like the Oscar just keeps getting better with each upgrade and so that needs to be done as they come along. There is no shinning star in that line and there the only way to classify the third generation is by year which may not be of much use or significance. Here again is the balance you discussed when it comes to building. Prudence along the line but perhaps a focus on whatever model is at hand when it is needed most. Not much use in trying to classify any model as third generation.

Is this making any sense?

It does, but A6M series is 1st gen ... you will use it on your CV's for a long time. BUT all of your LBA IJN fighter groups will be using 2nd gen fighters (George/Jack), and you will find that most of your losses will be in those.
The thing about the KB is that after about mid-42 you don't actually use it all that often, maybe once/month. Those other groups are in combat every day. So, your A6M production requirements aren't going to be all that high.

The term gen is applied to model types because of performance. The A6M model is outclassed badly by the allies after 4/43, and I mean BADLY. Yes, on CV's you have to use it until SAM, but you need to get it replaced with all other groups ASAP.

The same applies to Oscar. It is a 350 mph (roughly) fighter. In '42 that is ok. In '43 it is routinely facing 420mph fighters. In '44 it is facing 440mph fighters. It is outclassed.
Tojo/Tony are 370/380 mph fighters. Frank is a 400 mph fighter. Don't get hung up on the whether it is an a or b for this. Now, when it comes time to go into production, that's when you figure out exactly which one you want (Tojo b is terrible, a and c are good).

You're hung up on when the airframe is produced, rather than its performance. What happened to IJ historically is that they had all of these great design criteria, but not enough design teams to execute. THEN, they also could not get their second generation of engines (Ha-4x series) to work due to intake issues (could not get twin-chargers to work nor 2 stage super-chargers which are similar.)
So, Helen ends up being in the war for a long time because Peggy was so delayed. Same with Oscar/Frank, Zero/Sam, etc.

making sense now?

So, looking at the IJA fighters, I suggested to you to figure out what your 2nd gen would be: Tojo/Tony or Frank. Depending upon what you chose, you put RnD on that model. the other models arrive per history. The one you chose can arrive a LOT earlier and when you need it.
EX: I choose to skip Tojo/Tony and go for Frank. If I put 10 x size 30 RnD on Frank, when they are repaired I will advance 10% every day or 1 month every 10 days. It is quite reasonable to expect Frank in mid-'43 with that research effort. Frank is a 2nd gen fighter, but it is also capable of fighting to the end game. Hence 10xsize factories simply flip to production as you will
want 300/month as a STARTING point on this model ... likely at LOT more. And note these factories never changed so the 300,000 supply expenditure was a one time expense (double that for the engines, but you get the idea.)

helping yet?

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/12/2015 2:49:07 PM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 1:40:14 PM

Lowpe

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Your being pointlessly semantic.

Look at it this way: You need the Frank A, in large numbers (which means they start producing immediately), by mid July 43!

You need either the Jack or George in large numbers earlier!

You need to make three times as many Army fighters starting in 1944 than Navy.

The A6M5c or worse is obsolete by June of 43. Rear area bomber defense.

You need the Sam on carriers.

You will have very little use for bombers once China falls other than ASW. Ground bombers that is. The occasional raid...but it doesn't matter what whizbang bomber you make if you don't have air control. And to have air control you need George in early 43 and Frank in mid 43.

You will need huge numbers of Judy or Jills and something Army for kamikazes. And don't just think you will convert fighters to kamikazes for the Army as you may need them to be fighters.

You need Nicks to guard the important rear area bases, so you free up fighters to be on the front lines.

You need Irving and Nick NFs.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 343

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 1:44:08 PM

el lobo

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Getting there. Closer?

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 344

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 1:52:35 PM

PaxMondo

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See my post and Lowpe's ... Tony/Tojo are 2nd gen. Oscar is first gen. Doesn't matter when they arrive.

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Pax

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Post #: 345

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 1:55:09 PM

PaxMondo

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Maybe easier to think of it this way ... when you change gen's the factories have to be rebuilt, they do NOT upgrade. The purpose of the generations is to identify how much supply you are going to expend.

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Pax

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Post #: 346

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 2:10:09 PM

el lobo

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Hi Lowpe,

A little semantic yes, but not pointless. I don't know if you read this entire AAR but just a reminder that this is my first game ever, not even with the AI past three months. This kind of discussion helps me get organized and posts like yours help even more.

Case in point, I posted the latest chart before I read your post, and it looks damn near to what you stated. Pretty cool I would say. With help from you guys I have been R&Ding the a/c you pointed-out.

I thank you, Pax and everyone else for your kind patience and help.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 347

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 2:17:42 PM

Lowpe

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Think of the 80/20 rule.

20% of you airforce is what will do the fighting. And this is Frank and George for 43 and 44. The Jack is a defensive frontline fighter only. You can't sweep with them.

A small portion of that 20% (depending upon how your game plays out) will be Night fighters.

If you want to get to the end game; focus on fighters, and to a lesser extent NF and Judy and Jill. Simplest is to get Frank and George very early, and to produce them in great numbers. Most of the other planes are like icing on the cake...with the exception of Sam for your carriers.

Ten size 30 factories going after the Frank A won't serve you ill. Or 8 size thirty and 2 size 60. The size 60 go right into production...

PS: My advice is geared to the first time player.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 12/12/2015 3:18:59 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 348

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 2:26:14 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

See my post and Lowpe's ... Tony/Tojo are 2nd gen. Oscar is first gen. Doesn't matter when they arrive.

So are you saying the whole line will be the same generation, not the individual models, like this?

Getting late here in the Kingdom so will see you tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Attachment (1)

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 349

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 2:43:31 PM

Lowpe

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Now, then think of your fighters holistically defending a base in early 44.

The Frank A are you anti Jugs planes and are flying at say 10K. Your largest present fighter.

A squadron of Oscars, very agile, are flying around 5K. They are the bait for the sweepers.

Your Tonies are your bomber killers and they fly at expected altitudes for the enemy bombers approximately.

You might have a squadron on Tojo IIc a little higher than the Franks to give them a little more protection from diving Jugs, and also the Tojo might be able to counter dive.

So, each plane has a definite purpose...but you need 4 squadrons of Franks to each squadron of Oscars or Tonies. Plan on losing at least 3 fighters for each Jugs. Then there are Corsairs, Lightnings, Spitfires, oh my.

Plus you need numbers, good pilots, radar warning, flak to disrupt the bombers aim, supplies, etc, etc.

Without good pilots your planes won't perform well for example and all that supply used in creating them gone for no gain or less than optimal gain.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 350

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 3:52:03 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Now, then think of your fighters holistically defending a base in early 44.

The Frank A are you anti Jugs planes and are flying at say 10K. Your largest present fighter.

A squadron of Oscars, very agile, are flying around 5K. They are the bait for the sweepers.

Your Tonies are your bomber killers and they fly at expected altitudes for the enemy bombers approximately.

You might have a squadron on Tojo IIc a little higher than the Franks to give them a little more protection from diving Jugs, and also the Tojo might be able to counter dive.

So, each plane has a definite purpose...but you need 4 squadrons of Franks to each squadron of Oscars or Tonies. Plan on losing at least 3 fighters for each Jugs. Then there are Corsairs, Lightnings, Spitfires, oh my.

Plus you need numbers, good pilots, radar warning, flak to disrupt the bombers aim, supplies, etc, etc.

Without good pilots your planes won't perform well for example and all that supply used in creating them gone for no gain or less than optimal gain.

+1

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 4:00:54 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

See my post and Lowpe's ... Tony/Tojo are 2nd gen. Oscar is first gen. Doesn't matter when they arrive.

So are you saying the whole line will be the same generation, not the individual models, like this?

Getting late here in the Kingdom so will see you tomorrow.

Thanks again.

yep.

Your dates are the historical. You now need to factor in your RnD and kinda guess as to when they will actually appear for your planning.
For beginners, a simple rule of thumb is for every size 30 RnD factory that you start on 7Dec41, you will advance that model 1/2 month from historical. Now, there are a number of math models that you can search on the forum that will give you better, but this will give you a first pass.

So, if you create 10 x size 30 RnD factories for Frank a model in Dec 7 41, for a first pass guess you will get the model 5 months earlier (1/44 becomes 8/43). Now, if you search for a better RnD estimator, you will find out that your odds of doing better than that are good, but for planning this guess will work.
Getting it a month or two sooner is just icing if you planned for 8/43,right?

Next, look at your army fighter table, you have 3 models for both 2nd and 3rd gen. That's fine, but you need to decide which of those you will RnD. I do not suggest you RnD more than one each. Tough choices.

Spreading your RnD out you get everything a little early, and likely it will make no impact in the war. Focusing allows you to get a crucial model early that will enable you to attain a goal otherwise unachievable.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/12/2015 4:06:15 PM

PaxMondo

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And as Lowpe has stated, fighters are crucial. ALL bombers are less crucial than fighters for IJ. You have to be sure you will have adequate fighters before you even think about anything else. AND day fighters ahead of night fighters, but just barely.

For NF, you need to keep in mind if the fighter is slower than the bomber it is trying to get to, then it gets only one pass maximum per encounter. That means you need 4 - 8x the fighters on CAP compared to expected bombers. If you have better than 10mph speed advantage over the bombers, then you have decent chances to get more than one pass ... a big deal.

This is true for all fighters, but a lot of the IJ night fighters are slower than B29's ... that's a real problem.

However, any NF is better than a day fighter on night CAP, and any fighter is better than no fighter on night CAP. Just rules to live by ....

If your opponent goes big for night bombing, you have to have an answer ...

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/13/2015 12:03:26 PM

el lobo

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Lowpe, Pax, this stuff is gold, gold, gold!

Time to revisit R&D.

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 354

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/13/2015 12:06:04 PM

el lobo

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May 26, 1942

Speak of the devil.

This was my set-up last turn for the Bettys. The Combat Replay showed that ten Bettys bombed the TF but no hits. This TF was in and out of Madras. I would have been nice to see if it was loaded or not.

Attachment (1)

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 355

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/13/2015 1:44:03 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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Sawadee-kop!

Max range attacks are always lower probability.
Attacks over 15 hex are lower still.
You would have needed high DL on the target TF to get an attack. prolly min4 to get it to work.

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Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 356

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/13/2015 1:47:28 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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your air chart looks much better. Note: Tojo/Tony is a 2nd gen fighter that will not survive on their own in '45 against allied fighters, simply too slow. Frank can survive in '45 and is like a gen 2.5; it is a difference though that you need to be aware of.
Tojo/Tony can be used in various back up roles in '45 if you have them, BUT more Franks would always be preferable as they would perform better in most of those roles.
EX: several people have talked to you about using layers of fighters to combat p-47 sweeps. Tojo/Tony can be used in some of those layers, but if you have Franks in those layers it works even better. Its just that most players over build Tojo/Tony and don't have the supply to build more Frank factories.

now start getting your RnD onto it and adjust the arrival dates based upon your RnD.

update the chart periodically (monthly is plenty) as your RnD moves along so you can see how you are doing compared to your plan.

viole! you are done.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/14/2015 1:26:03 AM >

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Pax

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 357

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/14/2015 7:23:28 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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Wadee, wadee,

Here is another chart on which I am working. It has only the Japanese fighters in which I am interested and a guess of Allied fighters and bombers. I sopped at the end of '44 because I am afraid to to look at '45. Not really, just a good time to ask for input.

Suggestions for changes, additions, deletions welcome.

Attachment (1)

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 358

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/14/2015 12:44:55 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

Good chart.

Key to remember: there is a malus when a fighter engaged in A2A combat is 60mph or more slower. Tojo is right on the line with the first Jug, only 1 mph above that threshold. No one knows if damage or maintenance affects the combat speed of planes, but I have long suspected that it does. In any case, Oscar/Zero are just ripped up by Jugs when they appear, Tojo's are marginal, Franks are what you need. Now you can see why.

Then of course the later Jugs/Stangs get to 470 mph .... then even the Franks succumb to the speed malus, so you need the 2nd gen Frank Ki-94 and the Shinden, both of which are fast enough to avoid the malus and both are 1E to avoid the 2E malus when in A2A.

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(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 359

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 12/15/2015 8:08:14 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Good chart.

Key to remember: there is a malus when a fighter engaged in A2A combat is 60mph or more slower. Tojo is right on the line with the first Jug, only 1 mph above that threshold. No one knows if damage or maintenance affects the combat speed of planes, but I have long suspected that it does. In any case, Oscar/Zero are just ripped up by Jugs when they appear, Tojo's are marginal, Franks are what you need. Now you can see why.

Then of course the later Jugs/Stangs get to 470 mph .... then even the Franks succumb to the speed malus, so you need the 2nd gen Frank Ki-94 and the Shinden, both of which are fast enough to avoid the malus and both are 1E to avoid the 2E malus when in A2A.

Very pertinent. There will be a new R&D in a couple of days.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 360