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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 12:59:41 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

If RA is anything like DBB (AA wise) you don´t really need CAP to defend. Massed AA can do wonders and after the Japanese lose 10-15 planes per turn for a couple of turn they usually give up. AA is very potent.



But it makes me wonder what 12 cm will do to the B29? Slow the overall pace of the air campaign?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 1:08:41 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		ALL the mods done by John 3rd and with help from me along with others are based on DBB mods. So, RA, BTS, and Treaty have the same basic blueprints.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 1:12:52 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Best of luck Dan, as is my MO now I will follow the allied side and leave the IJ AAR for later.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 5:55:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Just came across this amongst my screenshots. Why not post it again?





I recall the Blonde In Black was stunning. This capture does not do justice.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:04:53 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		1/4/43

I've only seen the combat replay and combat report. I'll focus this on the Air Battle for Sabang, since that's really the key to everything.

IJA Sweeps: Tojos sweep in waves, the biggest consisting of 150 fighters. That one does a number on Allied fighters, downing a mix of F4F, P40-K, P40-E, and P-39E. None of the P-38G are lost in combat. The Allies lose roughly 20 fighters (maybe more when I get to see Ops losses). Japan probably loses 15 or so Tojos.

IJN Netties: The sweeps are followed by two modest attacks by torp-carrying Betties escorted by some Zeroes. The Allied CAP knocks down all the Betties, but one did manage to get through and attack Maryland but is downed by flak before launching the torpedo. The big question is whether seeing that one Betty lining up on Maryland gives John the idea of sweeping with the KB and LBA and having all available bombers set to hit the Allied ships in port. I rate this as a high possibility. But for now the best thing I can do is keep the ships in place, protected by CAP (Allies should be able to put up a big number again) and flak (lots of AA units plus ship flak).

Sustainable?: Next turn I'll look carefully at aircraft replacement rates, especially the F4F, P-40K, P-38G, and early Corsairs (just now coming online) to see if how long the Allies can hold out with judicious allocation. IE, if the Allies are losing 20 aircraft a day, can replace 15, and are performing well overall with the Japanese growing fatigued, we might hold out for months. I don't think the prospects are that rosy, but it bears looking in to.

Achilles Heels? For the Allies its fighter pools. For Japan its probably the Kaigun - mainly capital ships. Right now the Kaigun is in harm's way. The Allied airpower is still strong. The Allied Navy is still strong. The waters are choked with mines and Allied subs. I want to promote this environment as long as possible to take shots at capital ships and destroyers. If it looks like Sabang's fighter position is tenuous, the Allies might consider a Death Star vs. KB match off the coast of Sabang on the supposition that I might not get a better chance to whittle down the KB more. Before I do that, I'll open the MOD to see what Japane gets in the way of capital ships. (Alot of Kaigun power is currently out of commission - in addition to ships sunk as shown in the post yesterday, I recall that Mutsu was hammered and that Yamato took a torp in December.

Towards that End: I sent out several surface combat TFs from Sabang. I also had a bombardment TF set to hit an IJ lodgment at Phuket. This TF collied with an IJN CL/DD TF. The Allies greatly outgunned the opposition, but results weren't particularly impressive. Still it is a whittling process. Here's the combat report:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Phuket at 48,69, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tama, Shell hits 2
CL Kiso, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DD Tanikaze
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1
DD Minegumo, Shell hits 1
DD Inazuma
DD Oboro, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Minekaze, Shell hits 1
DD Hakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Shiokaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Shell hits 1
BB West Virginia, Shell hits 3
CLAA Detroit, Shell hits 1
CL Helena
DD Meade, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Evertsen
DD Inconstant
DD Nepal

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:06:28 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Allied capital ships sunk as of 1/1/43


A pity about the British/Australian CA losses, and you're a bit short on bombardment batteships at the moment. But if Java is the heaviest CL lost, then I'm assuming Boise and her fellow CL's are still top of water. Not bad.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 12/13/2015 9:10:03 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:23:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Allied AA units at Sabang. Not sure how robust this is.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:27:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This is how Sabang shapes up at the moment. A few notes:

The two "CV" listed as being in port are actually CVE Sangamon and Long Island.

There were 100+ ships in port recently. I had worked on getting as many out of the way as possible before KB showed up. BB California and quite a few AO/TK ran afoul of John's subs.

The Allies do have alot of capital ships at Sabang at the moment. A tempting target for John.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:29:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		IJN carriers available at start for this mod (RA, Scenario 70). Standard.

Unfortuantely, there's no button to click on to find out what carriers become available. I don't want to ask John for that info, so I may ask NYGiants if he has the info handy.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:31:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Japan gets 19 CAs at start, and I think that's all it gets in the game (unless RA adds some to the OOB; I can't check the OOB, as noted in previous post, so I'm not positive). I've sunk seven CAs to this point, so that's going to be a major concern for John. That's certainly achilles heel info.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:40:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

A pity about the British/Australian CA losses, and you're a bit short on bombardment batteships at the moment. But if Java is the heaviest CL lost, then I'm assuming Boise and her fellow CL's are still top of water. Not bad.


Here's the Allied CLs sunk to date. As for Boise, it's very strange. She's not on the ships sunk list. Nor is she on the roster of ships in the game. What's happened to her? Did John leave her out of RA? Surely not. Probably I've forgotten something (perhaps she's in drydock and so not listed?)




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:46:58 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Boise found in drydock at Colombo, the official Allied navy triage center.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/13/2015 8:50:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Found her in drydock at Colombo also...




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 12:02:44 AM   
Sangeli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Unfortuantely, there's no button to click on to find out what carriers become available. I don't want to ask John for that info, so I may ask NYGiants if he has the info handy.


I believe that is only an issue on Dec 7th 1941. So just go to the next turn.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 12:06:15 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Found her in drydock at Colombo also...




Most beautiful actress that ever was in my books. Those eyes are mesmerizing!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 2:10:19 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Great to see this epic struggle back in play. Best of luck, CR.

EDIT: That's some fantastic AA you have at Sabang. I would think that would put the hurt on airfield and ground attacks. However, in my limited experience ground AA doesn't seem to help a lot against port strikes (such as second- and third-day Pearl Harbor strikes, for instance). I'd love to be corrected by someone with more experience.

Cheers,
CC

< Message edited by Commander Cody -- 12/14/2015 3:17:52 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 11:00:02 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Changes to naval OOB have not included the large capital warships since this game first started. In RA, Japan get 6 Shokaku-kai Class CV with 75 plane capacity.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 11:06:03 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Japan gets 2 BC of the Kawachi Class. The first should now be available and the second by mid-43 at the latest. Knowing how John loves to have pairs of large warships, the second will be seen relatively soon, IMO.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 11:09:41 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		They are a four more Tone Class CAs to be built.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 11:16:33 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		Japan will get about 30 modern DDs through the game. They are well balanced, but still not a match for those nasty Fletchers.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 3:55:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Sustainable?: Next turn I'll look carefully at aircraft replacement rates, especially the F4F, P-40K, P-38G, and early Corsairs (just now coming online) to see if how long the Allies can hold out with judicious allocation. IE, if the Allies are losing 20 aircraft a day, can replace 15, and are performing well overall with the Japanese growing fatigued, we might hold out for months. I don't think the prospects are that rosy, but it bears looking in to.


I don´t know if anything is changed in RA but here are the DBB/Stock per day.

F4F: 1,5
P39D: 0,83
P40K: 2,2
P38G: 0,6
Corsair: 1,0
Hurricane IIc: 1,2
Spitfire Vc (Aus) 0,6
Kittyhawk III (Aus): 1,15
Kittyhawk III (NZ) 0,36
Hurricane XIIb (CAN) 0,8

Grand total of around 10 fighters per day. Not the full story though as you get some groups arriving on map with planes! Not many though in the near future. At least not in DBB there isn´t much incoming in spring 43.

The JFBs will have to give you an approximate number of Japanese fighter. But I don´t think 2-300 Tojos/month is unreasonable to expect. Add to that the Navy planes and you are outproduced by a huge margin.

I think you need to avoid direct confrontation and rely on "hit and run" tactics more then you had done so far. Not possible at the current circumstances with the need to protect shipping though. But I think you will have concede the air space eventually and it would be unnecessary to break your air force in the process. Better to pull back and remain a threat. This will force him to continue sweeping and escorting building up the OP losses.

Your AA at Sabang looks on the small side. You need more heavy AA guns and you have plenty of them. Don´t overlook the AA BDE on Ceylon I mentioned earlier. It has 72x3,7 inch AA guns. Those things pack a mean punch. More AA won´t prevent him from bombing completely but it will make it so costly he can´t sustain continued bombing.

If I were you I would make it my top priority to get as much AA to Sumatra as I possibly can.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 6:50:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'll be upgrading to the latest RA files before I play the next turn (which I think will be tomorrow). John says that will boost Allied fighter pools somewhat. Joc, I don't know if the figures you gave are for the upgraded RA or the old RA. I hope it's the latter, but I suspect it's the former.

Kinda odd to play a game where the Allies get 10 fighters per month and the Japanes 200+. It's so odd that I can't believe it's true. Of course, this is a Mod, and John created the Mod, but I can't imagine any Japanese player would enjoy a disparity like that in '42 or '43.

But it is what it is.

Joc, if you're right about Allied fighter pools and production, then I'll have to make a decision fast. I won't be able to keep my fighters at Sabang long enough to reinforce the base. I won't be able to keep my battle line there. So probably what I'll have to do is sortie the Death Star in hopes of inflicting massive damage on the KB. That won't save Sabang, but it offers a way to hit Japan hard. I don't think John would expect an aggressive move from me.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 7:18:35 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'll be upgrading to the latest RA files before I play the next turn (which I think will be tomorrow). John says that will boost Allied fighter pools somewhat. Joc, I don't know if the figures you gave are for the upgraded RA or the old RA. I hope it's the latter, but I suspect it's the former.

Kinda odd to play a game where the Allies get 10 fighters per month and the Japanes 200+. It's so odd that I can't believe it's true. Of course, this is a Mod, and John created the Mod, but I can't imagine any Japanese player would enjoy a disparity like that in '42 or '43.

But it is what it is.

Joc, if you're right about Allied fighter pools and production, then I'll have to make a decision fast. I won't be able to keep my fighters at Sabang long enough to reinforce the base. I won't be able to keep my battle line there. So probably what I'll have to do is sortie the Death Star in hopes of inflicting massive damage on the KB. That won't save Sabang, but it offers a way to hit Japan hard. I don't think John would expect an aggressive move from me.


Its not just RA where the Japanese massively outproduce the allies in terms of air frames. Its pretty much the standard for any game including Stock scenario 1 and 2.

The allies do get quality instead though. When the Hellcat, P47 and second generation Corsair starts rolling in the allies can really start to put some hurt on the Japanese. But as the allies the biggest struggle in the air will always be their own pools. Careful balancing between losses and availability is a must throughout the game. Even in 45.

I´m pretty confident I got most of the allied production right but as I went by memory some things might be a little off. I also can´t really vouch for the Japanese numbers. But from what I have seen in AARs it seem pretty normal. John likes to play offensively though and doesn´t strike me as one to care much for the economy so he could have gone bananas!

Its not that bad if you consider you get around 300 fighters/month (the list I posted was per day, sorry if that was unclear ) and he is producing somewhere around 400-600/month. A bigger problem is that with PDU ON you will be facing only the best Japanese fighters like the Tojo and George while you will be forced to use planes like the F4F, P39D and P40Es.

I would very strongly advice against seeking a carrier clash at this point. He will absolutely 100% surely have the A6M5 on his carriers by now. It will severely outclass your Wildkittens. I had one CV battle with F4Fs against M5s and it was not pretty at all. You are only 4 months away from the Hellcat which will give you the advantage in any CV battle. A big advantage too! You get 130 per month which means you can pretty quickly equip your CVs with the Hellcat.

I know also that RA gives the Japanese more CVs. I don´t know how many or when but you can bet on John having accelerated them all. I think at best even with LBA support your chances would be very slim even under the best circumstances.



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Post #: 3683
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 7:39:36 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Joc. Lots of good stuff to mull over there. Now I have to digest it and figure out where to go from here.

The key is Sabang. I can't imagine giving up without a fight. The only way to fight is to maintain those fighters and ships. If I don't, John sends in bombardment TFs and trashes the place.

I think I have a gordian knot to unravel here.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 10:56:35 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
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Status: offline 		Not sure if you still have the Dutch CMs, they have a lot of mines. Long run in from Colombo if you got them out, but they can deter the BB TF s a little.

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Post #: 3685
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 11:00:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		One of the beauties of this invasion was that the Allies brought everything including the kitchen sink, including minelayers, AE, and ACM. So I currently have 488 mines at Sabang and that number is holding steady (plus mines at Medan). I can increase those numbers as needed and desired.

But once I lose control of the air, I have to get all my ships out of Sabang.

For now, my working hypothesis is that I pretty much have to give battle in the air, at least until I figure it's time to evacuate all the ships.

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Post #: 3686
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/14/2015 11:50:33 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
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Status: offline 		You sure did take this bull by the horns ;]

Watching and learing!!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/15/2015 4:09:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The air war over Sabang is the key to the game for the foreseeable future.

The Allies seemed to win every battle but could well be losing the war due to replacement pool disparities.

How does this look to you?




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/15/2015 4:40:43 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
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From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		That ratio doesn't look good. Not sustainable for you. But 1435 Tojo's destroyed is a lot. What level do his pilots have right out of flight school? 50? And is he throwing these directly into battle?

He'll be able to go on forever then...

He knows your fighters are concentrated at Sabang and that it is eating up all your resources. He only has to rotate squadrons to keep up the pressure. Production, supply are not a problem.

The only thing that might stop him are his pilot losses....

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 12/15/2015 5:42:58 PM >

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"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/15/2015 4:50:22 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2869
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline 		Good to see this up again, Dan. It was probably one of the only ones I was reading. I'll have to start from the beginning to catch up.

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